Attrocoties on the way home...

[Thracian]

"Thracian, losing your job etc is no excuse for ignorant behaviour and no it isnt understandable. I was watched a programm a few mnths ago which found that a person of 'white descent' with a white name was more likely to get a interview then one of an ethnic. The fact that we are all in the same boat during this crisis does not give one group more pain then another!!!"

====

I read figures only a week or so ago about the percentage of non-whites taking what new jobs were available and, although I cannot seem to find them again, the percentage was high due, one has to presume, to the positive discrimination elements I've drawn attention to. That sort of thing fuels resentment and some people will represent that resentment in the form of chanting just as some animal rights activists will chant, or some street demonstrators will chant.

However I have referred to your very point in another thread over the last day or so drawing attention to the fact that a whole lot of former immigrants who have worked in and contributed to our system over many years are now themselves victims of the jobs crisis. A good friend of mine, a precision engineer, is just such a victim.

I feel for every one and would always make sure that those who have contributed to our system, whatever their ethnic origin, get the first offer of jobs and help ahead of others.

[He's not bald]

Dahi, or Thayir, is a yoghurt of the Indian subcontinent, known for its characteristic taste and consistency. The word, Dahi, seems to be derived from Sanskrit word Dhadhi. Dhadhi is one of the five elixirs (Panchamruth) -- namely yogurt, milk, honey, ghee (clarified butter), and sugar cane juice -- which are often used in Hindu rituals.

Labneh is a strained yoghurt used for sandwiches popular in Arab countries. Olive oil, cucumber slices, olives, and various green herbs may be added. It can be thickened further and rolled into balls, preserved in olive oil, and fermented for a few more weeks. It is sometimes used with onions, meat, and nuts as a stuffing for a variety of pies or Kebbeh balls.

Tarator and Cacık are popular cold soups made from yoghurt, popular during summertime in Bulgaria, Republic of Macedonia, and Turkey. They are made with Ayran, cucumbers, dill, salt, olive oil, and optionally garlic and ground walnuts.

Zabady is the yoghurt made in Egypt. It is essentially famous in Ramadan fasting as it is thought to prevent feeling thirst during fasting all day long.

to name but a few!

No surely Zabady is the geezer that say's "time for bed" on the Magic R.O.B.?

[Edmund]

Do you go to Q.E?

No Beauchamp.

That's total bollox ..I lived in the West End for 20 years..in that time I had so many neighbours...some total tossers and some abolute cnuts!...but although they were all multicultural I never ever judged them on their race/religion/creed but simpley on how they behaved within our local community..and I'm sure that's how most true Leicester inhabitants judge each other!

Total bollox? Well done you muppet you lived in the west end for 20 years so that must means Leicester is not segregated? Open your eyes, take a trip around st mathews, highfields, melton road etc

Why are you telling me you never judged anyone around where you live do you want a medal? Thats got nothing relevant to my post at all, I never said I judge people by race religion creed im just stating the facts that Leicester is VERY much segregated into different race/religion/creed, wether you like it or not. Shock Shock horror im not being politically corect enough for you.

You keep on living in your little rosy world where muslims, christians, hindus walk hand in hand down the street.

Why is it when you go to a bank in highfields/melton road they have ten clerks who cater for different languages where if you went to a bank in market harborough you would not. Its not coincidence you mug.

Why cant you have a merry christmas sign down melton road? It has to say seasons greetings? Nothing to do with who lives there??????

I really wish I didn't start this debate but the bald one fired me up.

I don't totally disagree with what you say, but I strongly agree with Foxyarmy. e.g. Hamilton estate, Highfields, Melton Road/Belgrave. Thank God we don't seem to have a serious racial problem in our County/City, but there is a lot of 'spin' regarding this multiracial harmony that we are supposed to enjoy, because it's not true unfortunately. The Afro & Asian Hindu communities do mix & blend in with the whites, but speaking through experience I can tell you the Asian Muslims do not mix with anyone apart from their own kind. I had a business in Leicester for 17years & Hindu folk were good customers, also Afro no prob. but Muslims NO CHANCE. As soon as they realised the business wasn't Muslim, they walked out! You can make a good friend of a Hindu or Afro, but I don't give you much chance with a Asian Muslim. Back to football, I have been going to watch City for many years & I am very glad to say that I have never seen any racial problem. Just before we left Filbert Street, a guy sat in front of us shouted at a player from the opposition, " You black B-s--rd etc etc", we around him reported him to a steward & he was removed from the stadium. The folk will not put up with racist abuse in our stadium. By the way, my wife is Afro/Asian. Sorry but I had to get that off my chest!! Up the City!!

Finally someone living in the real world.

[Chairman of the Bored]

Anyone who has made a concerted study of the human genome and the way it conditions behaviour will know that "humans" like to form groups / tribes / gangs etc, be they based on ethnicity, locality or which football team you support, the huddled masses just love to cozy up to someone that looks / sounds / smells / eats / farts like them. Now this is due to our evolutionary inheritance; kill or be killed, from our days in the wild (or the West End of Leicester, whichever). Until we relate to each other as individuals, are not class conscious and really don't give a monkeys about the colour (etc) of people's skin, then we will remain in groups / tribes / gangs etc.

Mind you, wouldn't be much fun as a footy fan. Imagine loving our brothers and sisters from Nottingham and Derby? No siree....

[Ultra]

walking past morrisons on the way home yesterday a bunch of lads behind me, and a few of my mates

started chanting various different racially abusive things.. such as

"This is England.. so fook off " ... making silly comments about the security guard ( at morrisions) skin colour.

another, was "This town is full of pakis, im sick of it"

and "never seen so many fooking gorillas at a football match"

it carried on like this for a while, until they turned off into an alleyway

whether they were Hereford or Leicester fans, i am unsure, and i also dont know who they directed them at,

but one of the things i love about Leicester, and Leicester city football club is the diversity,

and racial equality..

and being asian myself, and never hearing anything like this at a leicester match before,

it disturbed me....

This type of cowardly bullying cannot be excused in ANY way, shape or form.

It reinforces the stereotype of football supporters as drunken, racist hooligans. And as long as these incidents occur, many families will be deterred from letting their children attend matches at the Way. In the long term, this could have a serious effect on the club's fan base.

Racism, from whatever source, needs to be stamped out whatever and whenever it occurs.

[Chairman of the Bored]

This type of cowardly bullying cannot be excused in ANY way, shape or form.

It reinforces the stereotype of football supporters as drunken, racist hooligans. And as long as these incidents occur, many families will be deterred from letting their children attend matches at the Way. In the long term, this could have a serious effect on the club's fan base.

Racism, from whatever source, needs to be stamped out whatever and whenever it occurs.

The point I was making is that eventually, it might evolve its way out of our systems (the system?). There is simply too much conditioning in there just yet for it to be "stamped out". Lots of people have tried stamping things out....Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot....most of whom were racist meglamaniacs.

Humanity has to evolve to a higher plane before it disappears altogether. See you in at least another 6 million years. In the meantime, oppose it by all means, as I do.

[Thracian]

This type of cowardly bullying cannot be excused in ANY way, shape or form.

It reinforces the stereotype of football supporters as drunken, racist hooligans. And as long as these incidents occur, many families will be deterred from letting their children attend matches at the Way. In the long term, this could have a serious effect on the club's fan base.

Racism, from whatever source, needs to be stamped out whatever and whenever it occurs.

If people were treated fairly and with respect there wouldn't be any fuel for racism.

You don't "stamp" racism out. It can fester within the mind as well as being expressed outwardly.

You destroy whatever fires it.

And what families won't let their kids attend games? My kids had to grow up in the real world, warts and all.

It's how they gained experience.

[SussexFox]

If people were treated fairly and with respect there wouldn't be any fuel for racism.

You don't "stamp" racism out. It can fester within the mind as well as being expressed outwardly.

You destroy whatever fires it.

Not sure racism will ever be completely stamped out and im not really sure multiculturalism works either, in most major cities races don't mingle and live together there are usually different areas for different cultures. Not saying thats right or wrong but thats just the way it is

[Thracian]

Not sure racism will ever be completely stamped out and im not really sure multiculturalism works either, in most major cities races don't mingle and live together there are usually different areas for different cultures. Not saying thats right or wrong but thats just the way it is

At Leicester Market there's a melting pot of different nationalities among the stallholders and no less diversity among the customers.

I can only take as I find and only on Monday, I stood there with my arms around a Muslim lady as we wished each other a Happy New Year. We do most anything for each other and the general inclusiveness has been uplifting.

I've got customers from all races and creeds. We've given all of them a small Christmas box and I'm damned grateful to them, one and all.

It's amazing what a wrinkly old smile and some genuine respect and consideration can do. There are differences. The Muslims are much more guarded and generally find it harder to communicate, apart from the youngster. But they are coming on and we've got a fair few seek us out cos they trust us and seem to know we'll do our best for them.

The Turbanators and West Indians are brilliant - good communicators, full of fun and such a positive part of the scene. Altogether I wouldn't want it any different. The whole experience has been a pleasure.

[Big Bad Fox]

I can assure you, asian parents nowadays encourage

the participation in any sports, especially football...

and i wont be discouraged by this.. its still nice to know so many people find

my experience very bad...

[Koke]

I did and couldn't believe how racially segregated the canteen was - it seemed like the outside bit was for the white people and the inside bit for the Asians. I hardly ever went to the canteen because I felt sort of uncomfortable in both areas.

Chairman of the Bored explained it perfectly - That's how humans work and will always work. It's gang/tribe affiliation.

I was born in the suburbs of Wolverhampton, grew up there but yet most of my friends are East Africans - I look like them, talk like them, eat what they eat etc, and thus feel more comfortable around them and can relate to everything they can. Try and go to Spain and you'll see ex-pats from this country doing exactly the same - segregating.

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. As long people respect each other and get along, then why do this government feel the need to drown multiculturalism down our throat.

I have white British friends, I speak with a dodgy black country accent and I chose my surroundings - my neighboroughs are from all backgrounds. Some are c*nts and some are great people. Enjoy life and get along with everybody. Safe.

[SussexFox]

At Leicester Market there's a melting pot of different nationalities among the stallholders and no less diversity among the customers.

I can only take as I find and only on Monday, I stood there with my arms around a Muslim lady as we wished each other a Happy New Year. We do most anything for each other and the general inclusiveness has been uplifting.

I've got customers from all races and creeds. We've given all of them a small Christmas box and I'm damned grateful to them, one and all.

It's amazing what a wrinkly old smile and some genuine respect and consideration can do. There are differences. The Muslims are much more guarded and generally find it harder to communicate, apart from the youngsterst. But they are coming on and we've got a fair few seek us out cos they trust us and seem to know we'll do our best for them.

The Turbanators and West Indians are brilliant - good communicators, full of fun and such a positive just part of the scene. Altogether I wouldn't want it any different. The whole experience has been a pleasure.

Fair enough mate I don't live in Leicester so cant really comment on the day to day life. I've just noticed from going around mostly with football that most major cities/towns are very divided Luton, Blackburn and Oldham are towns which spring to mind which i've noticed.

[Ultra]

Segregation in the northern towns is far more noticeable. Cultural issues on both sides has a large part to play in this.

[samuel]

Attrocities is probably a little OTT I think. Try asking a survivor of 9/11, or Madrid or even the London bombings, I suspect their definitions may be slightly different to yours.

I'm afraid we don't live in a society where we are all going to get along. Fact.

I don't care what others may think but Muslims have put paid to any possible harmony that may or may not occured in the future. Please be assured, I am fully aware that not everyone of Asian descent is a Muslim but for simplistic purposes and our ignorance, it makes it easier for everyone to be tarred with the same brush.

Having been a child of the West-end, Narborough Rd areas in the late 80's, i'm more than positioned to know how things used to be when in came to integrating and getting along, it mattered not a jot what colour you were, if you had a football and a BMX, you were in.Today, things aren't the same. Fact!.

As Dr Singh mentioned, people aren't racist, they are preferentialist, it suits, it makes things easier but we have been shaped to be so over the last 2 decades, Asians, Muslim or not, don't mix as a rule, why would they when we have councils printing literature in all languages now, police having translators on tap?.The list goes on, we are to blame, we make it too easy for different cultures to be separated, if they have no need to mix, why bother?.

Leicester is hugely segragated now and it will only get worse, like it or not, and no amount of Glossing over by the Mercury or Leicester City Council is going to change that.

[Guest]

*Turns racist chanting into another immigration debate*

The UK does not let people in willy-nilly. If you do not come from the EU or the European Economic Area, you can only come here to work if you are sponsored, ie. have a definite job offer. Employers in the UK can look overseas if they cannot employ from within the UK. The problem that we have is with low skill/low paid work that the indigenous population feels is beneath them, and in areas that require higher skills, particularly IT, medical and scientific areas where we just don't have people with the right qualifications. With the latter, it is the education system in this country at fault. To some extent, the same could be said with the other end of the scale, as more 16yr olds stay on.

Falling short of forcing our dole scroungers to work in manufacturing, or cleaning, or whatever, how are we going to fill these vacancies without looking elsewhere where there are people willing to take the work on?

[Thracian]

The UK does not let people in willy-nilly. If you do not come from the EU or the European Economic Area, you can only come here to work if you are sponsored, ie. have a definite job offer. Employers in the UK can look overseas if they cannot employ from within the UK. The problem that we have is with low skill/low paid work that the indigenous population feels is beneath them, and in areas that require higher skills, particularly IT, medical and scientific areas where we just don't have people with the right qualifications. With the latter, it is the education system in this country at fault. To some extent, the same could be said with the other end of the scale, as more 16yr olds stay on.

Falling short of forcing our dole scroungers to work in manufacturing, or cleaning, or whatever, how are we going to fill these vacancies without looking elsewhere where there are people willing to take the work on?

I don't know if you are naive, selective or if you honestly believe what you say. But I do think you should get away from your books and your cushioned world sometimes.

The UK doesn't have to "let" people in. The government in their desperate need for votes, has a vested interest in closing their eyes to who comes in. And the fact is there are so many illegals coming here it is endemic.

Only a fortnight ago a woman explained to me how people were arriving in the boot of a neighbours car in Belgrave, Leicester.

Every so often the authorities uncover vast stockpiles of false passports. Who do you think these are meant for Lisa? And do you honestly think all the culprits are being caught? Of course not and especially with all the plants the criminals have in the immigration services.

As for people turning down jobs that are beneath them, what jobs? In my worst situation not too many months ago I'd have happily gone back to where I started as a 15-year-old ... fruit picking. No chance. The whole industry seems to be contolled by Eastern European gang masters.

The truth is that anyone can employ anyone if they pay them enough and the jobs are actually open to people. But they don't and they aren't.

They prefer to bring in people from outside the country (like cocklepickers and fruit pickers) who are prepared to work for a pittance and therefore effectively take the potential work of the home-based population who have homes and families in situ and who cannot practically sleep in dormitories or large/small multi-family (sometimes slavers) communes. And none of this mentions the sex industry where illegals are readily found.

Where do you get this idea that some kinds of work would be considered "beneath" anyone anyway? Which is worth most Lisa? A lawyer because they are clearly intelligent and have studied for years to be paid a fortune. Or a refuse collector without whom the streets would be filled with stinking, rotting waste providing the breeding ground for disease?

Of course they both have value. But I know which I'd want to place in a job first.

The problem with people accepting supposedly menial jobs like street cleaning, is not that they are "beneath" anyone but that they don't pay much more than being on the dole or enough to prevent people falling into further debt. That is not so much about the rate of pay as the disgusting cost of living that applies in this land and which is being exported by the EC as we speak.

In the UK that cost of living is vastly inflated by obscene stealth taxes on fuel and other commodities which allow our irresponsible politicians to go on wasting the billions I've already outlined, unless you want some more examples.

What I would agree with is the need for investment in education. And in the recruitment of good, motivated teachers. But what a re-think that will require, and a massive change of moral attitudes.

PS: of course potential employees can look abroad for recruitment. The residue from this lot wouldn't be any use....I'd doubt they'll have a retrainable brain between them!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090101/tuk-1...il-6323e80.html

[Trav Le Bleu]

Look, it's all about slavery and sweatshops.

We like to be high and mighty and believe that we have abolished these things. We haven't.

We still buy our goods cheaply from sweatshops; the fact that they are in south-east Asia or east Europe doesn't change that fact! As for slavery, we still use workers from foreign countries to do those jobs that "we" feel are beneath us and reward them with next to nothing for these services.

Until people, noticibly the wealthy (who irnically can often pay less for things than other and also get showered with gifts), are prepared to pay a fair price for what they receive - maybe even forgoing some of their luxuries that these exploited peoples have no hope of obtaining - then this will be the continuing state of affairs.

Oh, and btw, this thread has gone wildly off track!

[Ultra]

I don't know if you a naive, selective or if you honstly believe what you say. But I do think you should get away from your books and your cushioned world sometimes.

The UK doesn't have to "let" people in. The government in their desperate need for votes, has a vested interest in closing their eyes to who comes in. And the fact is there are so many illegals coming here it is endemic.

This rant is really beneath you. And NONE of it justifies the treatment described at the start of this thread.

Do you honestly believe that immigration is a vote-winning issue for this government?

Or that illegal immigrants, having gone through all kinds of processes to reach this country, are suddenly going to alert the authorities of their presence by registering to vote?

[Thracian]

This rant is really beneath you. And NONE of it justifies the treatment described at the start of this thread.

Do you honestly believe that immigration is a vote-winning issue for this government?

Or that illegal immigrants, having gone through all kinds of processes to reach this country, are suddenly going to alert the authorities of their presence by registering to vote?

Oh, for Heaven's sake Ultra. Are you serious with this?

Where do the illegals live? With others of their kind. It's their only choice.

If they live in those communities then other people can't, or they won't want to.

If there is no community mix and the local populace get their heads together and decide Labour is their best protector then who do you think that group will vote for?

And the illegals breed. The kids are English. They grow up and breed within their own communities and they will vote accordingly.

Immigration isn't a vote winner but immigrants certainly are. And I've no idea how you could pretend otherwise.

[AoWW]

I seem to think Big Bad Fox was talking about a quite different situation when he started this thread. Where its gone since seems kinda disrespectful to him, in my opinion.

[Thracian]

I seem to think Big Bad Fox was talking about a quite different situation when he started this thread. Where its gone since seems kinda disrespectful to him, in my opinion.

You are quite right. We should all have agreed that the racist chanting was both abhorrent and utterly inexplicable and got on with thinking about Crystal Palace.

Who wants explanations anyway?

I'll be the first to apologise.

Here's to a Happy and harmonious New Year.

[Guest]

I don't know if you a naive, selective or if you honestly believe what you say. But I do think you should get away from your books and your cushioned world sometimes.

The UK doesn't have to "let" people in. The government in their desperate need for votes, has a vested interest in closing their eyes to who comes in. And the fact is there are so many illegals coming here it is endemic.

Only a fortnight ago a woman explained to me how people were arriving in the boot of a neighbours car in Belgrave, Leicester.

Every so often the authorities uncover vast stockpiles of false passports. Who do you think these are meant for Lisa? And do you honestly think all the culprits are being caught? Of course not and especially with all the plants the criminals have in the immigration services.

As for people turning down jobs that are beneath them, what jobs? In my worst situation not too many months ago I'd have happily gone back to where I started as a 15-year-old ... fruit picking. No chance. The whole industry seems to be contolled by Eastern European gang masters.

The truth is that anyone can employ anyone if they pay them enough and the jobs are actually open to people. But they don't and they aren't.

They prefer to bring in people from outside the country (like cocklepickers and fruit pickers) who are prepared to work for a pittance and therefore effectively take the potential work of the home-based population who have homes and families in situ and who cannot practically sleep in dormitories or large/small multi-family (sometimes slavers) communes. And none of this mentions the sex industry where illegals are readily found.

Where do you get this idea that some kinds of work would be considered "beneath" anyone anyway? Which is worth most Lise? A lawyer because they are clearly intelligent and have studied for years to be paid a fortune. Or a refuse collector without whom the streets would be filled with stinking, rotting waste providing the breeding ground for disease?

Of course they both have value. But I know which I'd want to place in a job first.

The problem with people accepting supposedly menial jobs like street cleaning, is not that they are "beneath" anyone but that they don't pay much more than being on the dole or enough to prevent people falling into further debt. That is not so much about the rate of pay as the disgusting cost of living that applies in this land and which is being exported by the EC as we speak.

In the UK that cost of living is vastly inflated by obscene stealth taxes on fuel and other commodities which allow our irresponsible politicians to go on wasting the billions I've already outlined, unless you want some more examples.

What I would agree with is the need for investment in education. And in the recruitment of good, motivated teachers. But what a re-think that will require, and a massive change of moral attitudes.

PS: of course potential employees can look abroad for recruitment. The residue from this lot wouldn't be any use....I'd doubt they'll have a retrainable brain between them!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090101/tuk-1...il-6323e80.html

This rant is really beneath you. And NONE of it justifies the treatment described at the start of this thread.

Do you honestly believe that immigration is a vote-winning issue for this government?

Or that illegal immigrants, having gone through all kinds of processes to reach this country, are suddenly going to alert the authorities of their presence by registering to vote?

Exactly.

I could also answer the other points Thrac has raised, but I would just be going over old ground again.

[demon_dog]

You are quite right. We should all have agreed that the racist chanting was both abhorrent and utterly inexplicable and got on with thinking about Crystal Palace.

Who wants explanations anyway?

I'll be the first to apologise.

Here's to a Happy and harmonious New Year.

Seems to me that the people chanting racist insults were simply trying to provoke a reaction.

Good for you in completely ignoring such mindless, childlike behaviour.

Anyone who chants racist insults are a disgrace.

[Corky]

I seem to think Big Bad Fox was talking about a quite different situation when he started this thread. Where its gone since seems kinda disrespectful to him, in my opinion.

[samuel]

In fairness to Thracian, certain participants are to eager to muddy the waters with lame arguments.

The man has a very valid point and as such, the very situations the OP was way going over the top with, are caused by such feelings.

It seems this weak, socialist government we are having to suffer, have some cohorts after all.

I will be as bold as to say that Asian communities are making and adding to situations like OP describes.