The Gradel or Dyer debate

[BlabyFox]

If only it were quite that simple.

Max may well be the most talented, potentially crowd-pleasing player we have but the mark of a good professional is to deliver 7-rated performances or better, time and again and this will only come by improving consistency.

For a young winger Max is already quite effective in terms of goals/assists especially when you remember that some contributions are not detailed in the stats, like starting one of the moves which led to a goal on Saturday.

But he can still improve his decision-making, still improve the number of chances he creates, still reduce the number of control errors he makes, still increase the speed he uses the ball on occasions, still cut down the failure rate on his free-kicks, crosses and corners and still improve the potency of his shooting.

Max's performance on Saturday was energising to the team, just like Cleverley's but both have to be set against the level of opposition because Cheltenham were little better than Conference class and I've long known Max can tear Conference standard sides to shreds.

Dyer, on the other hand, while perhaps more limited in terms of versatility, has delivered half a season of invariably solid displays with an excellent goals return and that after teams had sussed him and started to make particular plans to contain him.

Being fair Max has had to deal with that too but it was perhaps a bit harder for him with his playing on his least preferred side of the pitch and not, apparently, having the licence to roam.

Bottom line is they are both dangerous players who are difficult to contain indefinitely and we are lucky to have them. Surely better to use both than lose either.

[maddog]

Votes are incredibly one sided.

As they should be, Dyers been average or worse for the last 15 games or so, and certainly hasn't delivered a complete good performance for a whole game like he was doing early season.

The odd nice goal and decent bit of play is all hes done for months. Probably because he needs a rest.

Lets not forget he was playing League Two football with the Dons last season, and well if League Two is as bad compared to League One as League One is to the Championship then its an incredibly low standard, and a very high standard jump.

And hes come into basically a Championship side, played pretty much every game and done well.

REST

[clazkel]

Dyer has played his part this season, for the first 10 games (or so) of the season i think he was our best player, when he played well we played well, and alot of the points we gained, he helped us win.

However the last 10 games (or so) he hasnt been as effective and im surprised Pearson stuck with him soo long. Gradel at the moment is more effective and brings more to the team. I would like to see Ashley Chambers or Barry Hayles given a chance on the wing though, but after Gradels free-kick against MK Dons and his performance sat he deserves a starting place, sometimes he tries to do too much though, when he should just cross the ball in the box, great prospect tho

[Mr Happy]

What the majority are saying.

[Father Ted]

I don't know how much you've seen of Gradel as a player but quite what Dyer has to offer that is beyond Gradel I don't know.

When I've talked to a few contacts at the club they've all agreed that Gradel is the most talented individuals we have.

That doesn't mean he uses those talents to the full yet, there's no doubt he doesn't.

But Gradel can make goals, score goals, beat people, play on the left, play on the right, play in the centre, play within a team, take people on, play the give-and-goes, take free-kicks and corners and is even improving his ability to harrass as was clearly shown today...

Dyer only plays on the left from what I've seen and although he had a good first half of the season for a winger, for eight or 10 weeks now he's lost his edge and been far too easily contained by his opponents. Unlike Gradel, when that happens, he doesn't seem to have licence to change flanks or move elsewhere other than inside a bit, cramping the space.

So, overalll I'd probably a guy who can switch wings naturally over one that doesn't seem to, especially considering we often only play with one winger, but I'd sure like to see both firing on all cylinders because if would sure be a nightmare for any defence at our level.

I happen to think both are good players and that our team can and should utilise both. But I also believe that Gradel can be one of the best players we've had in modern times given the right help and support. Even when he's below his best he has the ability to create a buzz and make something happen.

Anybody who disagrees with this is a fool. May I also add that Dyer only has a left-foot. I have NEVER seen him use his right foot and as a result defender's have worked him out and force him to cut in onto his right foot. That is why I think that he has been playing so poorly of late.

[Scow]

I agree with C-Man and Davie G - I can see that midfield lining up at Tranmere to give us a solid set up. However, like others, I'd still like to see Gradel ahead of Dyer.

Although Dyer has gone through a rough patch, one thing that's never failed him is his work rate as Pearson rightly pointed out after the game. A rest should do him good bearing in mind he's played pretty much every game this season.

[Corky]

After yesterday, we should re-sign Josh Low.

[Joe.]

I'm not sure where this idea of Dyer being of any kind of value defensively (or more solid as has been said) has come from?

Max, however frustrating and variably inconsistent he can be, will offer more than Lloyd Dyer to our team on current form. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Max is particularly great, but he'll show more flashes of attacking flair than Dyer will, especially given the former's horrible lack of form in the last five months.

Truth is, Dyer's more of a hinderance on the team at the moment, offering very, very little of any use going forward. Max is obviously not a complete player of any sorts, but he's worth the gamble ahead of a player who isn't performing at the moment. He may fail completely and replicate Lloyd's current performance rate, but we'll never know if he doesn't get a proper shot at proving himself.

His performance on Saturday warrants a start against Tranmere without a doubt for me.

Oakley --- Berner --- King Gradel

[Mr Happy]

After yesterday, we should re-sign Josh Low Elvis Hammond

[Corky]

Oh yes, Elvis as well.

Gradel looked so confident yesterday, and dispelled the notion that he can't cross by sending a couple of great balls into the box, just evading our strikers.

[Thracian]

I'm not sure where this idea of Dyer being of any kind of value defensively (or more solid as has been said) has come from?

Max, however frustrating and variably inconsistent he can be, will offer more than Lloyd Dyer to our team on current form. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Max is particularly great, but he'll show more flashes of attacking flair than Dyer will, especially given the former's horrible lack of form in the last five months.

Truth is, Dyer's more of a hinderance on the team at the moment, offering very, very little of any use going forward. Max is obviously not a complete player of any sorts, but he's worth the gamble ahead of a player who isn't performing at the moment. He may fail completely and replicate Lloyd's current performance rate, but we'll never know if he doesn't get a proper shot at proving himself.

His performance on Saturday warrants a start against Tranmere without a doubt for me.

Oakley --- Berner --- King Gradel

If you're referring to my use of the word I certainly didn't mean "solid" in a defensive sense. I meant it as in knowing what you're going to get. Same position in the team, same approach, roughly the same number of chances created, no great surprises. Gradel is more hit and miss and more prone to treading on the ball or slipping when he turns - as you would expect from a still relatively inexperienced winger.

[Ultra]

Gradel is the player in form and should start.

Dyer offers insurance from the bench should either Gradel or Cleverley have an off night.

[ACF]

Gradel is the player in form and should start.

Dyer offers insurance from the bench should either Gradel or Cleverley have an off night.

Exactly

[lcfc81]

Anybody who disagrees with this is a fool. May I also add that Dyer only has a left-foot. I have NEVER seen him use his right foot and as a result defender's have worked him out and force him to cut in onto his right foot. That is why I think that he has been playing so poorly of late.

This is certainly his biggest weakness, how many times has he come in on his right and failed to hit it!

Being a proffessional footballer you think he would have worked a little on it!

[Kilworthfox]

I think Pearson will have Dyer and Berner back instead of Cleverly and Gradel.

Oakley - Berner - King - Dyer

For a tough away game.

Berner I understand from a defensive point of view, but Dyer offers nothing defensively, like Max. Also NP could drop King in favour of Cleverly?

[Thracian]

Berner I understand from a defensive point of view, but Dyer offers nothing defensively, like Max. Also NP could drop King in favour of Cleverly?

He could if he wants to start losing. Cleverley has lots of qualities but has looked far more impressive on the right than ever he has in midfield. King on the other hand has immense influence in the centre and not all of it on the ball.

[C-man]

He could if he wants to start losing. Cleverley has lots of qualities but has looked far more impressive on the right than ever he has in midfield. King on the other hand has immense influence in the centre and not all of it on the ball.

I agree. It's no coincidence King has played every minute of 36 league games, and that we've only lost twice.

[Tilley]

At the minute, Gradel.

[BlabyFox]

I can't believe how one sided it is