@ anyone who knows the law

[Edmund]

So my tax on my car ran out at the end of March. Me being an idiot forgot to renew it in time and yes I did recieve the renewal notice, but for one reason or another it got at the bottom of the pile.

Anyway ive been driving around the last few days with no tax oblivious that my tax had ran out until yesterday when It suddenly struck me.

I have now purchased my next 12 months online and wont receive it for a few days.

My question is will I receive a fine in the post for driving around without a tax disc, considering I drove past a police car on a couple of occasions without being stopped but I know there anpr systems alert them of drivers without valid tax.

So shall I expext a fine in the post or am I just worrying for no reason? In hindsight Im suprised I didn't get stopped. My old man reckons they will fine me but other people have said they have to physically stop me?!

And lastly can I drive without a tax disc until my new one arrives or is this illegal?

Cheers

[BoneDog]

You can drive around without tax if you've ordered it I think. Don't think they will have noticed you on them couple of occasions before you ordered it else they prob would of pulled ya innit.

[Edmund]

You can drive around without tax if you've ordered it I think. Don't think they will have noticed you on them couple of occasions before you ordered it else they prob would of pulled ya innit.

Yeah looking back im either a lucky bastard or the anpr systems aren't all they are are cracked up to be. Or the officer may have just been lazy?

Either way im not complaining and will have to learn not to put myself in that position again and just cross my fingers that ive been let off.

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

Its very unlikely that you will receive a fine.

You cant drive without a Tax disk, regardless of the fact that you've ordered one.

Unfortunately, even though yours may be a legitmate reason, precedent does show that a defence such as yours would not be looked at kindly may the magistrates.

[Alexikokopops]

Its very unlikely that you will receive a fine.

You cant drive without a Tax disk, regardless of the fact that you've ordered one.

Unfortunately, even though yours may be a legitmate reason, precedent does show that a defence such as yours would not be looked at kindly may the magistrates.

"I forgot" isn't exactly the most legitimate of reasons

[skinnydipper]

Its very unlikely that you will receive a fine.

You cant drive without a Tax disk, regardless of the fact that you've ordered one.

Unfortunately, even though yours may be a legitmate reason, precedent does show that a defence such as yours would not be looked at kindly may the magistrates.

5 days grace

Not quite true. 5 days grace if disc ordered before expiry of previous one and taxation is continuous

[Bellend Sebastian]

Although they say there isn't, there seems to be a period of grace for renewals as I know a lot of people who have got their tax disc a few days late and none of them have been fined. I've no idea how long you get before the fine comes out, but it's not something I'd be inclined to test.

The chances of getting done for not displaying a valid tax disc are pretty small, I'd say, as long as you've bought one. If they can check by looking at the computer whether a tax disc has been purchased for a car, they're not likely to bother wandering around looking through people's windscreens.

We get cars clamped every now and then round our way for non payment of road tax, so there's obviously still some enforcement other than automatic fines

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

"I forgot" isn't exactly the most legitimate of reasons

What I meant by legitmate is he may have genuinely have forgotten. While may lie in order to receive some leniency from the Courts.

5 days grace

Not quite true. 5 days grace if disc ordered before expiry of previous one and taxation is continuous

I may have read it wrong but im sure he said that he had ordered the tax disk after the expiry date.

[Trav Le Bleu]

This is where the law is an ass.

Because although you will have driven around a few days without tax, you will still have paid for them, because the disc will be dated from the start of the month. This is especially annoying if you have to tax a SORNed car on say the 28th (Personally I'd leave it on a driveway for a few more days!)

Vehicle License Tax is the only tax where the poor pay MORE than the better off, in that they are more likely to get 6 months at a time. Though of course the truly poor won't have a car in the first place!

[Edmund]

Thanks for all the help people, it's looking positive as long as I wait for my disc to come through the post before I start driving again.

Cheers, at least you stopped me from doing a del boy with a big sign in my window : "tax in post".

[AoWW]

You should be fine. I'm very inclined to 'forget' to renew mine and end up going without for a few days. Last year I got stopped by the police about 5 days after mine had lapsed - I explained that I'd renewed online and that the new disc hadn't yet arrived in the post - they were perfectly happy with my explanation. They did breasthalyse me though... if you're ever gonna chance doing something vaguely dodgy, ffs make sure you've not had a drink - they love an excuse to stop you and see if you've been drinking.

[Alexikokopops]

You should be fine. I'm very inclined to 'forget' to renew mine and end up going without for a few days. Last year I got stopped by the police about 5 days after mine had lapsed - I explained that I'd renewed online and that the new disc hadn't yet arrived in the post - they were perfectly happy with my explanation. They did breasthalyse me though... if you're ever gonna chance doing something vaguely dodgy, ffs make sure you've not had a drink - they love an excuse to stop you and see if you've been drinking.

*waits for Thracian*

[lou]

Im pretty sure all police cars now carry toughbook computers onboard that are linked to all the central databases for tax, insurance etc... they can type in a registration number and immediately tell if a vehicle is taxed and insured. So once youve paid online Im sure your vehicle would come up as taxed? Could be wrong thou so please dont hold me to that!

[Edmund]

Im pretty sure all police cars now carry toughbook computers onboard that are linked to all the central databases for tax, insurance etc... they can type in a registration number and immediately tell if a vehicle is taxed and insured. So once youve paid online Im sure your vehicle would come up as taxed? Could be wrong thou so please dont hold me to that!

Someone else said to me to just print out the receipt and keep that in the car until it arrives.

[Thracian]

*waits for Thracian*

Yes and the courts are laser hot on anyone who's been drinking.

But if you're an already on bail thug called Tony Virasami who whacks an entirely innocent person and kills em in a checkout queue its entirely different.

Then you get all sorts of consideration. For a start the potential charge of murder gets diluted to manslaughter and the guy gets four years which, with good behaviour will become two.

Explaining his decision His Honour Judge Geoffrey Rivlin said he'd passed that sentence because if reflected the "revulsion and concern" felt by the victim's "nearest and dearest".

Great - a man so obviously in touch with the victims it makes you weep. .

It is high time every adult in this land had the right to bear arms. Because while the coppers will bully drinkers with abundant enthusaism there is no way our laws, our courts and our society is doing anything like what they should to protect us from the real shits in our society.

And nor is our Government who under pressure from various directions, back off from the very thought of punishing anyone effectively.

After all, The Police bear arms willingly enough when they feel they might be in danger. Diplomat's bodyguards are known to carry weapons.

Are other people's lives not worth as much as coppers, politicians or diplomats?

I wonder what sentence I'd have got if I'd slugged Gordon Brown in a supermarket and killed him?

[lou]

Yes and the courts are laser hot on anyone who's been drinking.

But if you're an already on bail thug called Tony Virasami who whacks an entirely innocent person and kills em in a checkout queue its entirely different.

Then you get all sorts of consideration. For a start the potential charge of murder gets diluted to manslaughter and the guy gets four years which, with good behaviour will become two.

Explaining his decision His Honour Judge Geoffrey Rivlin said he'd passed that sentence because if reflected the "revulsion and concern" felt by the victim's "nearest and dearest".

Great - a man so obviously in touch with the victims it makes you weep. .

It is high time every adult in this land had the right to bear arms. Because while the coppers will bully drinkers with abundant enthusaism there is no way our laws, our courts and our society is doing anything like what they should to protect us from the real shits in our society.

And nor is our Government who under pressure from various directions, back off from the very thought of punishing anyone effectively.

After all, The Police bears arms willingly enough when they feel they might be in danger.

And my life is worth as much to me as any coppers.

Totally right.... and In the same week a lad got convicted of MURDER of the lad in the bakery after throwing a glass dish at him... and got life. My point being how is that Murder when the above case was only deemed to be Manslaughter? How could they possibly prove the bakery one intended to kill but the other one didnt?

[Bryn]

Giving the people of this country guns is mutually assured destruction. I refuse to believe you don't agree with that, I think you're just being dramatic.

[Edmund]

It is high time every adult in this land had the right to bear arms. Because while the coppers will bully drinkers with abundant enthusaism there is no way our laws, our courts and our society is doing anything like what they should to protect us from the real shits in our society.

Do you want to end up like America with nutters snipering people out and about at petrol stations.

No guns please.

[AoWW]

Totally right.... and In the same week a lad got convicted of MURDER of the lad in the bakery after throwing a glass dish at him... and got life. My point being how is that Murder when the above case was only deemed to be Manslaughter? How could they possibly prove the bakery one intended to kill but the other one didnt?

Uh oh, please tell me you haven't just instigated a debate with Thracian.

[AoWW]

Yes and the courts are laser hot on anyone who's been drinking.

But if you're an already on bail thug called Tony Virasami who whacks an entirely innocent person and kills em in a checkout queue its entirely different.

Then you get all sorts of consideration. For a start the potential charge of murder gets diluted to manslaughter and the guy gets four years which, with good behaviour will become two.

Explaining his decision His Honour Judge Geoffrey Rivlin said he'd passed that sentence because if reflected the "revulsion and concern" felt by the victim's "nearest and dearest".

Great - a man so obviously in touch with the victims it makes you weep. .

It is high time every adult in this land had the right to bear arms. Because while the coppers will bully drinkers with abundant enthusaism there is no way our laws, our courts and our society is doing anything like what they should to protect us from the real shits in our society.

And nor is our Government who under pressure from various directions, back off from the very thought of punishing anyone effectively.

After all, The Police bear arms willingly enough when they feel they might be in danger. Diplomat's bodyguards are known to carry weapons.

Are other people's lives not worth as much as coppers, politicians or diplomats?

I wonder what sentence I'd have got if I'd slugged Gordon Brown in a supermarket and killed him?

All of which has fuck all to do with foxyarmy's car tax.

[Guest]

The title of this thread is misleading; it should be "@ anyone who knows about vehicle tax law". The number of times I get asked questions about areas of laws I haven't studied is erring on the ridiculous now, as is the indignation when I tell people I can't advise them.

For a start the potential charge of murder gets diluted to manslaughter and the guy gets four years which, with good behaviour will become two.

Totally right.... and In the same week a lad got convicted of MURDER of the lad in the bakery after throwing a glass dish at him... and got life. My point being how is that Murder when the above case was only deemed to be Manslaughter? How could they possibly prove the bakery one intended to kill but the other one didnt?

I'm sure that someone more experienced can answer this better, but to get a murder conviction you have to prove the necessary intention. This is not just evidentially impractical, but legally too. This is why the CPS may opt to go for a manslaughter charge; that is easier to prove than murder. Or this is my understanding.

The other point that doesn't appear to be addressed is that judges may pass a sentence, say for manslaughter, but the defendant could be locked up indefinitely for public protection purposes Criminal Justice Act 2003 s230 Sch 18.

I have seen this used. You'll see that the report only mentions this in passing, with no real reference, in the last paragraph, probably because people will register the manslaughter sentence only.

[Finnegan]

Totally right.... and In the same week a lad got convicted of MURDER of the lad in the bakery after throwing a glass dish at him... and got life. My point being how is that Murder when the above case was only deemed to be Manslaughter? How could they possibly prove the bakery one intended to kill but the other one didnt?

Mmmh. Interesting...

Welcome to Foxes Talk.

[Edmund]

The title of this thread is misleading; it should be "@ anyone who knows about vehicle tax law". The number of times I get asked questions about areas of laws I haven't studied is erring on the ridiculous now, as is the indignation when I tell people I can't advise them.

Sorry

[Guest]

Sorry

So you should be. I shall except it, this time.

[Thracian]

The title of this thread is misleading; it should be "@ anyone who knows about vehicle tax law". The number of times I get asked questions about areas of laws I haven't studied is erring on the ridiculous now, as is the indignation when I tell people I can't advise them.

a) I'm sure that someone more experienced can answer this better, but to get a murder conviction you have to prove the necessary intention. This is not just evidentially impractical, but legally too. This is why the CPS may opt to go for a manslaughter charge; that is easier to prove than murder. Or this is my understanding.

b) The other point that doesn't appear to be addressed is that judges may pass a sentence, say for manslaughter, but the defendant could be locked up indefinitely for public protection purposes Criminal Justice Act 2003 s230 Sch 18.

c) I have seen this used. You'll see that the report only mentions this in passing, with no real reference, in the last paragraph, probably because people will register the manslaughter sentence only.

Yes I guessed that was the case with (a) and it only emphasises to me that the law is too complex and sub-divided. A bloke has been unlawfully killed by a third party. Let the judge decide how that came about and how serious it was within wide-ranging parameters and with due explanation for his decision.

What's the maximum sentence for this type of manslaughter anyway under the law as it stands? I could find a lot of guidance to no specific sentence parameters.

For all you say I cannot seriously believe the judge considers his decision reflected the feelings of the victims family or the feelings of many members of the public that the sentence is no deterrent and does nothing at all to serve as a warning to other potentially violent aggressors.