International Footy

[dandannieldanok]

What a terrible terrible post You almost sound like a stereo-typical American in that rant. Radovan's criticism is not exactly soft or veiled, and you might even disagree with him, but in essence he just points out what he thinks are the flaws of English/British football. Whatever his motives are, it shouldn't be beyond people to treat his points 'objectively' instead of resulting to personal insults. Why his nationality should matter is beyond me. He's shown he knows a lot more about English football than a whole host of people on here.

So if I started calling all Danish people ******, trolls and dumb you would treat it objectively?

[shen]

If you believe his points are objective, but they aren't they're all one-sided and he has a legitimate motive, he doesn't.

He's a wind up merchant, a troll who's sole intention is to cause reaction and disruption whilst he sits at his keyboard admiring his work.

No points are objective, nor his nor yours. But people should be able to take a step back and take on some of his arguments more constructively (if they're bothered) instead of just replying with comments like "Radovan's a cockwand!" which frankly don't serve a single good purpose. In fact, when a few persons start insulting someone, the rest seem to think it's legitimate to do so. We have forum rules for a reason, no?

Yes, his points are one-sided, but then again I've seen a lot of ignorant or one-sided opinions the other way around too. I'm not trying to defend RC, but I just don't think the reactions are justified, especially not the post I replied to above.

[shen]

So if I started calling all Danish people ******, trolls and dumb you would treat it objectively?

If you said that the Danish people were getting suckered by the media to believe the hype of their football team, then I would very much agree with you. If you said Danish people are ******, trolls and dumb, I'd have a little chuckle and then ask why you have such an opinion. Without trying to put words into RCs mouth, I have a hunch that he referred to the first case, when speaking about the English. And I'm pretty sure that he won't jump at the defense of his own nation either who has the same number of ******, trolls and dumb people as anywhere else.

[dandannieldanok]

No points are objective, nor his nor yours. But people should be able to take a step back and take on some of his arguments more constructively (if they're bothered) instead of just replying with comments like "Radovan's a cockwand!" which frankly don't serve a single good purpose. In fact, when a few persons start insulting someone, the rest seem to think it's legitimate to do so. We have forum rules for a reason, no?

Yes, his points are one-sided, but then again I've seen a lot of ignorant or one-sided opinions the other way around too. I'm not trying to defend RC, but I just don't think the reactions are justified, especially not the post I replied to above.

Do you like wearing those blinkers? I guess it's the non-English people stick together then because you seem to completely ignore the fact that the abuse came all from this poster; "troll", "dumb", "disabled" to name a few insults.

[dandannieldanok]

If you said that the Danish people were getting suckered by the media to believe the hype of their football team, then I would very much agree with you. If you said Danish people are ******, trolls and dumb, I'd have a little chuckle and then ask why you have such an opinion. Without trying to put words into RCs mouth, I have a hunch that he referred to the first case, when speaking about the English. And I'm pretty sure that he won't jump at the defense of his own nation either who has the same number of ******, trolls and dumb people as anywhere else.

Well you must be a pretty mellow person then if you don't take offence at ******, trolls and dumb. Unfortunately I do take offence, sorry if that's a problem for you but I'm not going to change.

[The Doctor]

Similar to Scotland when they require one more win for qualification.

i'll give you that. all the british isles teams have a fear of success. observe wales and scotland in every qualifying session and england in every quater final.

[shen]

Do you like wearing those blinkers? I guess it's the non-English people stick together then because you seem to completely ignore the fact that the abuse came all from this poster; "troll", "dumb", "disabled" to name a few insults.

You're the one saying that non-English people know shit about England, and the fact that some of us are not English restricts us from criticising England. I mean, what the hell?! Have you never criticised the US or any other country than your own? What kind of caveman mentality is that?

By the way, I said RC was guilty of abuse as well as all the others calling him names. They are no better than he is!

Well you must be a pretty mellow person then if you don't take offence at ******, trolls and dumb. Unfortunately I do take offence, sorry if that's a problem for you but I'm not going to change.

How's that any different than when Coventry fans call people from Leicester '******, trolls or dumb'? I can't get excited about a comment that's so far from the truth. People that take offense are generally those that feel it's a fitting description of themselves...

[davieG]

What a terrible terrible post You almost sound like a stereo-typical American in that rant. Radovan's criticism is not exactly soft or veiled, and you might even disagree with him, but in essence he just points out what he thinks are the flaws of English/British football. Whatever his motives are, it shouldn't be beyond people to treat his points 'objectively' instead of resulting to personal insults. Why his nationality should matter is beyond me. He's shown he knows a lot more about English football than a whole host of people on here.

No points are objective, nor his nor yours. But people should be able to take a step back and take on some of his arguments more constructively (if they're bothered) instead of just replying with comments like "Radovan's a cockwand!" which frankly don't serve a single good purpose. In fact, when a few persons start insulting someone, the rest seem to think it's legitimate to do so. We have forum rules for a reason, no?

Yes, his points are one-sided, but then again I've seen a lot of ignorant or one-sided opinions the other way around too. I'm not trying to defend RC, but I just don't think the reactions are justified, especially not the post I replied to above.

So if no points are objective how can you treat them objectively? People may have ignorant or one-sided opinions but they are rarely coupled with the subliminal hate messages that caravan's carry.

So for insults I think you need to look at what caravan posts where he continually derides the whole English nation with his snide put downs that have no relevance or place in any point he might be trying to make. That is what makes him out to be a troll because that is his true intention.

Another aim of a troll is to seek attention and he's now had more than enough of mine, I no longer wish to waste anymore time on him or arguing about him because he'll be wallowing in it.

[dandannieldanok]

You're the one saying that non-English people know shit about England, and the fact that some of us are not English restricts us from criticising England. I mean, what the hell?! Have you never criticised the US or any other country than your own? What kind of caveman mentality is that?

By the way, I said RC was guilty of abuse as well as all the others calling him names. They are no better than he is!

Well it does restrict you, just like it restricts me from criticising countries I don't know well. I've only ever criticised with harmless throwaway comments that are in fact usually very light-hearted. To be honest, apart from my post this morning, I can't remember the last time I criticised another country. I can take crticism, but not when its lined with obnoxious hatred and offensive labelling.

How's that any different than when Coventry fans call people from Leicester '******, trolls or dumb'? I can't get excited about a comment that's so far from the truth. People that take offense are generally those that feel it's a fitting description of themselves...

So by taking offence you are inferring that I think myself a dumb troll/disabled? Riiiight ok.

[Fosse Boy]

Why don't people simply ignore RC? That would make all our lives a lot simpler.

[shen]

So if no points are objective how can you treat them objectively? People may have ignorant or one-sided opinions but they are rarely coupled with the subliminal hate messages that caravan's carry.

So for insults I think you need to look at what caravan posts where he continually derides the whole English nation with his snide put downs that have no relevance or place in any point he might be trying to make. That is what makes him out to be a troll because that is his true intention.

Another aim of a troll is to seek attention and he's now had more than enough of mine, I no longer wish to waste anymore time on him or arguing about him because he'll be wallowing in it.

That's why I put apostrophes around objective. I simply mean that one should know better than letting the heart rule the head when confronted with controversial and even obnoxious comments.

And secondly, if he's such a troll and you as a forum leader deem him to be no more than a vile/evil wind-up merchant, who breaks forum rules when insulting people on here and a whole nation generally, why hasn't he been banned? We've seen people banned for much less in the past...

[shen]

Well it does restrict you, just like it restricts me from criticising countries I don't know well. I've only ever criticised with harmless throwaway comments that are in fact usually very light-hearted. To be honest, apart from my post this morning, I can't remember the last time I criticised another country. I can take crticism, but not when its lined with obnoxious hatred and offensive labelling.

RC seems to have a much broader knowledge of England than some English people on here. So no, it doesn't necessarily restrict me or any other non-English from criticising England. Out of curiosity, how do you react when you hear English people deriding the Germans or the French?

So by taking offence you are inferring that I think myself a dumb troll/disabled? Riiiight ok.

Generally people get offended if there is a degree of truth in it or if they feel insecure about things, yes. There is no reason to get offended if it has no connection to the truth.

[Brainy]

Dont worry Radovan, i'm a fan.

[dandannieldanok]

RC seems to have a much broader knowledge of England than some English people on here. So no, it doesn't necessarily restrict me or any other non-English from criticising England. Out of curiosity, how do you react when you hear English people deriding the Germans or the French?

Well if you believe he has some sort of knowledge then fine but I completely disagree.

I don't hear any English people deriding the Germans or the French, so you've just provided another misconception from someone that doesn't know England very well (that we have an irrational hatred of the French and Germans).

[Radovan's Caravan]

RC seems to have a much broader knowledge of England than some English people on here. So no, it doesn't necessarily restrict me or any other non-English from criticising England. Out of curiosity, how do you react when you hear English people deriding the Germans or the French?

Generally people get offended if there is a degree of truth in it or if they feel insecure about things, yes. There is no reason to get offended if it has no connection to the truth.

Mr Shen,

One has to accept certain things when posting on a mixed ability forum. Around 80% or so of contributors have rather little in the upstairs department. They are unable to distinguish between sentiment and reason, are devoid of curiousity and are incapable of thinking independently.

Add to that - limited powers of self expression and reflection, a tendency to take themselves and life's diversions far too seriously, chronic literal mindedness, an irational hatred of the complex, an unwillingess to entertain new or radical ideas and total emotional incontinence - and you have a recipe for a very heady brew.

I call this mental piss 'The Ingermong Cult'.

[davieG]

That's why I put apostrophes around objective. I simply mean that one should know better than letting the heart rule the head when confronted with controversial and even obnoxious comments.

And secondly, if he's such a troll and you as a forum leader deem him to be no more than a vile/evil wind-up merchant, who breaks forum rules when insulting people on here and a whole nation generally, why hasn't he been banned? We've seen people banned for much less in the past...

I'm not letting my heart rule my head I'm just giving my opinion, yes we're back to that again I never said he was vile just a troll/wind-up merchant. There's plenty of those on here but most have a thread of humour and piss-take embedded in to them his have an underlying hatred.

As for banning "not by me they haven't". I have the approach that, in spite of what I may think I let people make their own minds up, but I'm still entitled to have a view.

[shen]

Well if you believe he has some sort of knowledge then fine but I completely disagree.

I don't hear any English people deriding the Germans or the French, so you've just provided another misconception from someone that doesn't know England very well (that we have an irrational hatred of the French and Germans).

He is educated, which is more than can be said of some! And that's also in regard to his knowledge of England, even you have to admit that... unless of course you have no idea what he's referring to.

Are you telling me you've never heard an Englishman deride the Germans or the French? Christ, even I've heard Danes badmouth the Swedes on the basis of past prejudices, and we have nowhere NEAR the same violent recent history as England has with France or Germany. Again you're assuming that I believe 'all' English people are like that, which I well and truly don't. But you speak as if no-one in England would dream of being racist or deriding nations they've got a violent history with. Not even conservative WW2 veterans or their offspring? Not even racist BNP voters?

Incidentally, I find it interesting how national stereotyping humour/comedy has a rich history in the Anglican part of the world whereas it's largely non-existant elsewhere. But I wouldn't expect you to know much about non-English humour anyway...

I'm getting a bit hostile here, when I just meant to say that it's wrong to assume that non-English people don't know anything about England, to the extent that they can't criticise it. And on the same note it was very immature to comment derogatively on a nation you more than likely know absolutely nothing about except what Wikipedia can offer you.

[dandannieldanok]

He is educated, which is more than can be said of some! And that's also in regard to his knowledge of England, even you have to admit that... unless of course you have no idea what he's referring to.

Are you telling me you've never heard an Englishman deride the Germans or the French? Christ, even I've heard Danes badmouth the Swedes on the basis of past prejudices, and we have nowhere NEAR the same violent recent history as England has with France or Germany. Again you're assuming that I believe 'all' English people are like that, which I well and truly don't. But you speak as if no-one in England would dream of being racist or deriding nations they've got a violent history with. Not even conservative WW2 veterans or their offspring? Not even racist BNP voters?

Incidentally, I find it interesting how national stereotyping humour/comedy has a rich history in the Anglican part of the world whereas it's largely non-existant elsewhere. But I wouldn't expect you to know much about non-English humour anyway...

I'm getting a bit hostile here, when I just meant to say that it's wrong to assume that non-English people don't know anything about England, to the extent that they can't criticise it. And on the same note it was very immature to comment derogatively on a nation you more than likely know absolutely nothing about except what Wikipedia can offer you.

What knowledge of England? How is criticising the English style of play and criticising the people a "knowledge" of England. It's an opinion.

I honestly can't remember the last time I heard an English person openly deride the Germans or the French. If you don't believe me then well there's nothing I can do about that, I don't have proof. Of course there are racist people in England, but I can guarantee this country is more multi-cultural and openly accepting of other races than most others in the world.

You talk about national stereotyping humour/comedy, well that's completely irrelevant because this person's derision of England has no humour at all, its just plain offensive.

Oh and your last comment, it's wrong for me to assume that non-English people don't know anything about England, yet my comments are immature because I know nothing about countries other than wikipedia? You might want to get to know me better before making that kind of statement. The kind of statement that infers that it's ok for others to criticise England, but it's not ok for the English to criticise others.

[shen]

I'm not letting my heart rule my head I'm just giving my opinion, yes we're back to that again I never said he was vile just a troll/wind-up merchant. There's plenty of those on here but most have a thread of humour and piss-take embedded in to them his have an underlying hatred.

As for banning "not by me they haven't". I have the approach that, in spite of what I may think I let people make their own minds up, but I'm still entitled to have a view.

I wasn't referring to you with that comment. I was referring to the whole host of "F*** off Radovan" posts in this thread and others. Of course you're entitled to your opinion. But if you join along and brand him as no more than a hating wind-up merchant, who along with a bunch of others resorts to name-calling and the kind, then why shouldn't it have consequences when it's had consequences before? What's the point of having forum guidelines and forum administrators? Again, this is not a personal dig at you, but come on show some consistency here...

[dandannieldanok]

I wasn't referring to you with that comment. I was referring to the whole host of "F*** off Radovan" posts in this thread and others. Of course you're entitled to your opinion. But if you join along and brand him as no more than a hating wind-up merchant, who along with a bunch of others resorts to name-calling and the kind, then why shouldn't it have consequences when it's had consequences before? What's the point of having forum guidelines and forum administrators? Again, this is not a personal dig at you, but come on show some consistency here...

Why don't you show some consistency? You told me that the "troll, disabled, dumb" comments from Radovan should be taken light-heartedly whereas you seem to take offence at off-the-cuff comments like "F*** off Radovan".

[StanSP]

I did not envisage this thread coming to this.

[davieG]

I wasn't referring to you with that comment. I was referring to the whole host of "F*** off Radovan" posts in this thread and others. Of course you're entitled to your opinion. But if you join along and brand him as no more than a hating wind-up merchant, who along with a bunch of others resorts to name-calling and the kind, then why shouldn't it have consequences when it's had consequences before? What's the point of having forum guidelines and forum administrators? Again, this is not a personal dig at you, but come on show some consistency here...

But there is consistency, by your own admission he and others have been abusive, they're all still posting no one's been banned. I can't see the problem.

I've said what I think Radovan is, the others are just posters that feel the need to swear when being abusive in response to his more subtle abuse. I suppose I could have picked someone out and sited them as someone who swears abusively but it would be stating the obvious.

As for general personal/personal abuse well I'm afraid it's endemic on here as is the use of the 'c' word which I personally find unacceptable. I'm sadly out on a limb on here with this so no longer pay much attention to it.

[Finnegan]

Ugh. None of this is relevant to the international footy anymore. Thread closed. You can have a new one next international weekend.