Foxhateram Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Always puzzles me how Morrison gets overlooked... Agree with this one! Morrison has done a great job lately in both CB and RB positions. I think it is very unfair that he isn't praised.
shiv Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Much as I like young Jack, I have my doubts as to whether he will/would ever hack it in the Premier League. And I would be amazed if he ever got a full international call up. However, if a fcukwipe like Terry can make it... Jack's career seems to have been based on the mistaken belief that he was some sort of defensive wonderkid (that precocious debut at Lincoln at the age of 16 months). I don't know who the Liverpool scout was or what he was on that day but I am pretty certain he didn't know the difference between 'child prodigy' and 'early physical developer'. Look at the facts: in three seasons he made only one full league appearance at Anusfield. His first Championship stint at Scunny divides opinion. I might be being a little unfair to the lad but my feeling is that we got him at least in part because he found the second tier tough going. As for the international record, three U19 caps for someone who will be on the over age (and uncapped) roster for the U21's isn't that impressive considering the lower league tat often selected at that level. I really don't want to blow Sasho's trumpet as, quite frankly, he is a topic that has been done to death on this board. All I will say is that he is that he is technically the most accomplised defender that LCFC has ever had. All I can say for Jack is that he is, on balance, a better Premier League prospect than Waggy ( a 3/1 as opposed to a 10/1 shot). He was behind players like Carragher, Hyypia and Agger so I think that's a bit harsh.
Guest Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Agree with this one! Morrison has done a great job lately in both CB and RB positions. I think it is very unfair that he isn't praised. He is praised lots, and rightly so, on this board. Just happens that he sometimes gets overshadowed by Hobbs who so often plays exceedingly well
Fosse Fox Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 He was behind players like Carragher, Hyypia and Agger so I think that's a bit harsh. Maybe, but it says a lot that the Red shites were prepared to offload their 'starlet' for an undisclosed fee to a third tier club. And exactly who was he behind? An ageing manhandler who couldn't get a look in at England, a geriatric wantaway and a sicknote. Hobbs is, and never will be, anything more than an honest to goodness stopper - fans have very low technical expectations when it comes to central defenders. You also seem to convenietly forget that Hobbs has been at the heart of a very wobbly defence far too many times recently...
shiv Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Maybe, but it says a lot that the Red shites were prepared to offload their 'starlet' for an undisclosed fee to a third tier club. And exactly who was he behind? An ageing manhandler who couldn't get a look in at England, a geriatric wantaway and a sicknote. Hobbs is, and never will be, anything more than an honest to goodness stopper - fans have very low technical expectations when it comes to central defenders. You also seem to convenietly forget that Hobbs has been at the heart of a very wobbly defence far too many times recently... Well at the end of the day he was getting first team football and wanted to stay. I never said he was their 'startlet' so you're chatting a bit of rubbish as well. And to be honest, nobody is saying he's a world class defender so to say that being behind those three is a bad thing is just ridiculous. A bit off topic but Carragher would go straight into the England squad now if available, Hyypia was a class defender for them and Agger has been linked with a number of word class teams, so once again you're argument just seems ridiculous. Hobbs does have the potential to be a very good player, which is pretty much what everyone is saying yet you seem to be the only one who disagrees. And as for being at the heart of a wobbly defence, it was our 'blip' in the season. Wayne Brown was more at fault in my opinion. At one point Hobbs was playing alongside Morrison and McGivern - all three of them together are still young and learning. Hobbs has been one of our best players this season, he's been solid at the back so I don't know why you seem to think so lowly of him.
Fosse Fox Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Well at the end of the day he was getting first team football and wanted to stay. I never said he was their 'startlet' so you're chatting a bit of rubbish as well. And to be honest, nobody is saying he's a world class defender so to say that being behind those three is a bad thing is just ridiculous. A bit off topic but Carragher would go straight into the England squad now if available, Hyypia was a class defender for them and Agger has been linked with a number of word class teams, so once again you're argument just seems ridiculous. Hobbs does have the potential to be a very good player, which is pretty much what everyone is saying yet you seem to be the only one who disagrees. And as for being at the heart of a wobbly defence, it was our 'blip' in the season. Wayne Brown was more at fault in my opinion. At one point Hobbs was playing alongside Morrison and McGivern - all three of them together are still young and learning. Hobbs has been one of our best players this season, he's been solid at the back so I don't know why you seem to think so lowly of him. Now who's being ridiculous? Are you seriously suggesting that he proactively sought the switch and that he was prepared to give up the prospect of £££'s and Live TV days at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates for ppp's and a few wet wednesdays in Barnsley, S****horpe and Peterborough? And injury ravaged England would turn to Carragher would they? Ahead of Lescott, Dawson, Cahill, Brown, uncle Tom Cobley and all? Helps if you consider the options before you post... Given the age and much publicised frailties of the Liverpool defence it should only have been a matter of time before a player with potential walked in and made a central defensive berth his own. Clearly Rafa felt that Jack's potential was more Championship than Champions League. Now get down on your knees you silly boy and PRAY that Sasho is fit for next season...
shiv Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Now who's being ridiculous? Are you seriously suggesting that he proactively sought the switch and that he was prepared to give up the prospect of £££'s and Live TV days at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates for ppp's and a few wet wednesdays in Barnsley, S****horpe and Peterborough? And injury ravaged England would turn to Carragher would they? Ahead of Lescott, Dawson, Cahill, Brown, uncle Tom Cobley and all? Helps if you consider the options before you post... Given the age and much publicised frailties of the Liverpool defence it should only have been a matter of time before a player with potential walked in and made a central defensive berth his own. Clearly Rafa felt that Jack's potential was more Championship than Champions League. Now get down on your knees you silly boy and PRAY that Sasho is fit for next season... Well I'm saying he didn't have the prospects of Live TV days because he wasn't getting played. Yeah I would pick Carragher ahead of Lecott and Cahill, maybe not Dawson and Brown but that is irrelevant. I never said him being Champions League potential so again you're putting words into my mouth. You clearly are looking for an argument, I mean all I said was it was a bit harsh on Hobbs saying he couldn't get into the Liverpool squad when those above him were better. I'm not denying that. As for your final comment, jog on mate! Get off you're high horse and stop trying to continue this pointless argument where we both clearly disagree.
The Doctor Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Now who's being ridiculous? Are you seriously suggesting that he proactively sought the switch and that he was prepared to give up the prospect of £££'s and Live TV days at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates for ppp's and a few wet wednesdays in Barnsley, S****horpe and Peterborough? And injury ravaged England would turn to Carragher would they? Ahead of Lescott, Dawson, Cahill, Brown, uncle Tom Cobley and all? Helps if you consider the options before you post... Given the age and much publicised frailties of the Liverpool defence it should only have been a matter of time before a player with potential walked in and made a central defensive berth his own. Clearly Rafa felt that Jack's potential was more Championship than Champions League. Now get down on your knees you silly boy and PRAY that Sasho is fit for next season... Maybe some of the older players may look for one last pay day without doing much. But, Do you really think that a young player coming into his career would sacrfice first team football for money in the short term, while getting FTF would be better for his development than reserve football and so give him a potentially longer career and so the posibility of money in the long term? Or just maybe he became a footballer because he enjoys playing football rather than for fame and fortune?
Fosse Fox Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 Maybe some of the older players may look for one last pay day without doing much. But, Do you really think that a young player coming into his career would sacrfice first team football for money in the short term, while getting FTF would be better for his development than reserve football and so give him a potentially longer career and so the posibility of money in the long term? Or just maybe he became a footballer because he enjoys playing football rather than for fame and fortune? It all depends on the terms and conditions, the club and the level of FTF. Joe Hart going on loan from Man City to Birmingham appears to be a serious bet hedger. On the other hand, Kasper Schmeichel going on a permament deal from Man City To Notts County appears to be a serious heave-ho. As for the moolah... it's probable that Jack was coming to the end of the deal that he signed after joining Liverpool from Lincoln. It's almost certain that it wasn't going to be renewed and that whatever Mandy was offering was the best he was likely to get - so he hasn't made any 'sacrifice'. But all of this is by the by: if Jack had gone from Liverpool to Covscum, Sheepshaggers or the Trees in similar circumstances and it was suggested on a forum like this that he had done so in order to get FTF the hapless poster would be dissed elsewhere as a deluded disabled. One tends to see things more clearly when one takes off the blue tinted specs...
Salieri Posted 23 April 2010 Posted 23 April 2010 It all depends on the terms and conditions, the club and the level of FTF. Joe Hart going on loan from Man City to Birmingham appears to be a serious bet hedger. On the other hand, Kasper Schmeichel going on a permament deal from Man City To Notts County appears to be a serious heave-ho. As for the moolah... it's probable that Jack was coming to the end of the deal that he signed after joining Liverpool from Lincoln. It's almost certain that it wasn't going to be renewed and that whatever Mandy was offering was the best he was likely to get - so he hasn't made any 'sacrifice'. But all of this is by the by: if Jack had gone from Liverpool to Covscum, Sheepshaggers or the Trees in similar circumstances and it was suggested on a forum like this that he had done so in order to get FTF the hapless poster would be dissed elsewhere as a deluded disabled. One tends to see things more clearly when one takes off the blue tinted specs... Has it not occurred to you that maybe it's you who is the 'deluded disabled'. Seeing as your opinion is in the minority (just you) and all that? The facts are that Jack was/is a very promising defender who wasn't given the opportunity to break into the first team at Liverpool. Thats not to say it's because he didn't possess the required ability/potential, moreso that at 'big' clubs like Liverpool success is demanded now and not tomorrow therefore youngsters rarely get the chance to get blooded through the first team (i appreciate there are exceptions). Fair play to Jack, i don't think Liverpool forced him out in any way, more that as they could not guarantee him first team football (yet) and they did not want to stand in his way of gaining that elsewhere. Hobbs may or may not see us as a stepping stone to bigger things, but i genuinely believe that he would swap sitting on the bench or festering in the reserves at Liverpool (for maybe better money) for first team football and the opportunity to improve his game at our club. There have been plenty of young players who haven't 'made it' at Premier League clubs and have gone on to forge very good careers for themselves. He is not yet 'world class' or anything like, and nobody has suggested that, but, given the right guidance and opportunity i believe he could operate at the top level in the future.
Fosse Fox Posted 24 April 2010 Posted 24 April 2010 Has it not occurred to you that maybe it's you who is the 'deluded disabled'. Seeing as your opinion is in the minority (just you) and all that? The facts are that Jack was/is a very promising defender who wasn't given the opportunity to break into the first team at Liverpool. Thats not to say it's because he didn't possess the required ability/potential, moreso that at 'big' clubs like Liverpool success is demanded now and not tomorrow therefore youngsters rarely get the chance to get blooded through the first team (i appreciate there are exceptions). Fair play to Jack, i don't think Liverpool forced him out in any way, more that as they could not guarantee him first team football (yet) and they did not want to stand in his way of gaining that elsewhere. Hobbs may or may not see us as a stepping stone to bigger things, but i genuinely believe that he would swap sitting on the bench or festering in the reserves at Liverpool (for maybe better money) for first team football and the opportunity to improve his game at our club. There have been plenty of young players who haven't 'made it' at Premier League clubs and have gone on to forge very good careers for themselves. He is not yet 'world class' or anything like, and nobody has suggested that, but, given the right guidance and opportunity i believe he could operate at the top level in the future. OK my VERY last words on the sad Jack affair... As I'm the one shooting down absurd claims about Hobbs' ability or potential I can hardly be considered a 'deluded disabled'. Overly sceptical possibly (although highly impressionable LCFC fans are the least qualified to pin that on me). Please don't give me the naive spin that Liverpool didn't want to stand in Jack's way etc etc. They came, they saw, they hoofed him out. After three seasons it was clear to them that 'The Hoobs' wouldn't hack it at top level so they cut their losses. You can 'genuinely believe' in fairies at the bottom of the garden if you wish but if I were you I'd keep your Hans Christian Anderson fable about Jack voluntarily swapping the Champions League for the Championship to yourself as, aired in the wrong company (ie amongst non LCFC fans), this bizarre notion could make you a target of one of the more draconian provisions of the 1959 Mental Health Act. You might care to remember that 'good' and 'bad' are relative terms and that a 'good' career outside the Premier League is not nearly so 'good' as one in it. And if you are therefore hinting that a career outside the top flight is the fate that awaits Mr Hobbs then in actual fact you are agreeing with my assessment of him - so why post (I think that this emotional/rational split is sometimes referred to as 'cognitive dissonance' but don't take my word for it Houston)? PS The twerp who stated that Hobbs > Tunchev could be construed as claiming the former to be at least approaching world class (as a strong case could be made for the latter being of international class).
shiv Posted 24 April 2010 Posted 24 April 2010 OK my VERY last words on the sad Jack affair... As I'm the one shooting down absurd claims about Hobbs' ability or potential I can hardly be considered a 'deluded disabled'. Overly sceptical possibly (although highly impressionable LCFC fans are the least qualified to pin that on me). Please don't give me the naive spin that Liverpool didn't want to stand in Jack's way etc etc. They came, they saw, they hoofed him out. After three seasons it was clear to them that 'The Hoobs' wouldn't hack it at top level so they cut their losses. You can 'genuinely believe' in fairies at the bottom of the garden if you wish but if I were you I'd keep your Hans Christian Anderson fable about Jack voluntarily swapping the Champions League for the Championship to yourself as, aired in the wrong company (ie amongst non LCFC fans), this bizarre notion could make you a target of one of the more draconian provisions of the 1959 Mental Health Act. You might care to remember that 'good' and 'bad' are relative terms and that a 'good' career outside the Premier League is not nearly so 'good' as one in it. And if you are therefore hinting that a career outside the top flight is the fate that awaits Mr Hobbs then in actual fact you are agreeing with my assessment of him - so why post (I think that this emotional/rational split is sometimes referred to as 'cognitive dissonance' but don't take my word for it Houston)? PS The twerp who stated that Hobbs > Tunchev could be construed as claiming the former to be at least approaching world class (as a strong case could be made for the latter being of international class). Nobody is saying that! Get that into you're thick head! You're like a broken record, repeating yourself. And you are accusing people of saying things that they aren't. Pointless.
Salieri Posted 24 April 2010 Posted 24 April 2010 You might care to remember that 'good' and 'bad' are relative terms and that a 'good' career outside the Premier League is not nearly so 'good' as one in it. And if you are therefore hinting that a career outside the top flight is the fate that awaits Mr Hobbs then in actual fact you are agreeing with my assessment of him - so why post (I think that this emotional/rational split is sometimes referred to as 'cognitive dissonance' but don't take my word for it Houston)? Erm, i never hinted that a career outside of the top flight was all that awaits Hobbs. I was referring to players who have been shown the door by a (big) Premier League club and have gone on to still have a good career (i never stated that would be outside the top flight). As for the argument about who is better out of Tunchev and Hobbs, i would agree that a fully fit Tunch is at the moment a better player than Hobbs. However, there has to be question marks as to whether Tunch can a) get back to full fitness and b) recapture his form. Hobbs has a lot of years on Tunch, and for the next few should improve steadily as a player whereas Tunchev is more likely to decline than improve. As much as I like both players, if i had to make a choice out of the two then i would hold on to Hobbs.
adamkhalifa Posted 25 April 2010 Posted 25 April 2010 Can t be asked to read the entire thread. Anyway Keano to Sunderland. With Bent, Jones, Campbell already on the books Frankly waggers aint getting a look in there next season. If I were him id wanna move to Leicester.
Karljohn Posted 25 April 2010 Posted 25 April 2010 Yep, I noticed he launched himself forward with raised fists in celebratory mood on no less than 3 occasions, Jack Hobbs looked from the front to the back of the bank of fans adoringly and it looked like it was almost too much for him at one point, was right at the front as the boys came over at the end and nearly shit my pants with Browny's celebration. (think Stuart Pearce penalty Euro 96)
FantasticFox Posted 25 April 2010 Posted 25 April 2010 I know this isn't the best for rumours but as a poster said earlier Keane to Sunderland http://msn.football365.com/story/0,17033,8671_6114778,00.html - BRUCE WANTS KEANE The Mirror also says that 'Sunderland boss Steve Bruce will make an '£8million summer move for Republic of Ireland striker Robbie Keane. Who knows, if we pay the right amount for waghorn then they could go for Keane.
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