Millwall - Post Match Thread

[scott_gunnell]

waghorn scored after kings hard work vs doncaster, but apart from that his cameo was pretty shit. i dont really rate bednar. his performances for us have been shoddy and i'm sure sven won't be picking him again. at least he realised his mistake and took him off at half time today.

we need new strikers and sven seems to be working hard to find one.

my point is that this game could have been turned around if our players (yes the regular fan favourites of dyer, king, howard and hobbs) hadn't fluffed their chances and we would be having very different conversations now.

How clear cut where the chances Motivator?

I will catch highlights later

[scott_gunnell]

No. We were slack for the first 60 minutes and then failed miserably to break down a team with 10 men in the last half hour.

If football was all about stats, Sven would never have got this job - Sousa would have been saved by his possession and shots stats.

We were shit today and it was Sven's fault. The buck stops with the manager.

Yeah, I agree, buck stops with Sven. I cant argue with that. The manager is accountable and even with England Sven said the buck had to stop with him for not getting to a semi final

[Kitchandro]

waghorn scored after kings hard work vs doncaster, but apart from that his cameo was pretty shit. i dont really rate bednar. his performances for us have been shoddy and i'm sure sven won't be picking him again. at least he realised his mistake and took him off at half time today.

we need new strikers and sven seems to be working hard to find one.

my point is that this game could have been turned around if our players (yes the regular fan favourites of dyer, king, howard and hobbs) hadn't fluffed their chances and we would be having very different conversations now.

I'm just saying that Sven picks the team and he has to take responsibility for picking a player who hasn't even looked like doing anything since he came here.

I'm not absolving the blame from the players who are each to blame for their own performances and have not been nearly good enough in the last 3 games.

[RowlattsFox]

we can't defend like that and win football games, simple as that. We've played shit but still missed 3 absolute sitters.

[themotivator]

right, i'm not saying that sven is not responsible, he and any other manager would admit that, but the buck certainly doesnt stop with him. every player needs to take responsiblity for their mistakes and make sure they dont continue to make them. unless they can do that we will go nowhere and i'm sure SGE wont be afraid to show them the door.

as for selecting bednar. i probably would have chosen vassell, but what do i know. i havent watched them in training everyday, won the serie a, been england manager, or shagged ulrika bloody johnson. selecting any team is always going to be a gamble, especially with the squad we have at the moment. there will be changes in january and we will see where we are once sven has had a season under his belt at LCFC.

[themotivator]

How clear cut where the chances Motivator?

I will catch highlights later

didnt go to the match either. i'm only going on what the others have said and the RL coverage so maybe i should give up the arguement now. dyer and howard supposedly missed sitters and gally earlier on sounded like he should have gotten closer. all im saying is that the best players in the world mess up loads of chances, and we dont exactly have the second best in the world so we can expect to miss a lot too. we had 6 shots on target 8 off target and 5 corners. millwall had two on target 2 off target and 2 corners. we should have scored and it sounds like we shouldnt conceded at least one of the goals as a result of our lads not being clinical enough.

[Kitchandro]

right, i'm not saying that sven is not responsible, he and any other manager would admit that, but the buck certainly doesnt stop with him. every player needs to take responsiblity for their mistakes and make sure they dont continue to make them. unless they can do that we will go nowhere and i'm sure SGE wont be afraid to show them the door.

as for selecting bednar. i probably would have chosen vassell, but what do i know. i havent watched them in training everyday, won the serie a, been england manager, or shagged ulrika bloody johnson. selecting any team is always going to be a gamble, especially with the squad we have at the moment. there will be changes in january and we will see where we are once sven has had a season under his belt at LCFC.

Exactly.

Which brings me on to Bednar. He should show him the door, not play him.

I'm not getting on Sven's back, I agree completely we need to see what happens in January and tbh I'll judge him on next season.

However, despite not having the honours Sven has, or the chance to see them in training, I do go to every home match so I do have a pretty good idea about how our players play at the only time that matters - in a competitive match. I saw our game against Doncaster and the team that started the second half ripped them apart. It seems obvious to me that that side had potential and that Bednar has no future with us. We were a completely different team as soon as he went off.

So on that basis I think I can say he got the team selection very wrong today, though he is not completely to blame of course, especially if the players just didn't try.

To anyone who went to the match - apart from Bednar who else didn't try? All of them?

Against Leeds I thought half the team gave up pretty quickly

[plumbfox]

What an embarrassment.

Can everyone please not mention any more transfer rumours.

What "big name" will come here now?

i went to the game wish i had stayed at home!! they are just too easy to score past they need to get more meaner away play ugly and put it in row z

sometimes. but lets forget dreaming about playoffs next season we need to build for. plumbfox

[themotivator]

Exactly.

Which brings me on to Bednar. He should show him the door, not play him.

I'm not getting on Sven's back, I agree completely we need to see what happens in January and tbh I'll judge him on next season.

However, despite not having the honours Sven has, or the chance to see them in training, I do go to every home match so I do have a pretty good idea about how our players play at the only time that matters - in a competitive match. I saw our game against Doncaster and the team that started the second half ripped them apart. It seems obvious to me that that side had potential and that Bednar has no future with us. We were a completely different team as soon as he went off.

So on that basis I think I can say he got the team selection very wrong today, though he is not completely to blame of course, especially if the players just didn't try.

To anyone who went to the match - apart from Bednar who else didn't try? All of them?

Against Leeds I thought half the team gave up pretty quickly

my interperetation was that he played ok (was in birmingham so didnt see it but my brother went) when he came on at leeds and sven gambled with him (probably his last or last but one chance before he went back to west brom?) and it didnt pay off so he duely subbed him off. do you think that waghorns appearance at doncaster (despite the goal) really warranted a return to the first team?

i think we both agree on the whole. hope sven and the players buck their ideas up for hull or we will get hammered. the bednar experiment has been a total cock up for all involved.

[Captain...]

Is it Sven's fault?

Is it Sven's fault Morrison, Hobbs, Cunningham, Naughton, Bednar, Gallagher etc... played badly today?

Is it Sven's fault that Hobbs has been in and out of the team since his arrival and Morrison has been doing bugger all in the non existent reserves? Yes

Is it Sven's fault we started another away game with very attacking full backs? Yes

Is it Sven's fault we started an away game without a defensive midfielder or sufficient cover on the wings for the full backs? Yes

Is it Sven's fault we started with an unfit useless lump up front again? Yes (I hope Bednar is unfit otherwise he is shocking)

If we had won 6-2 today would he be a hero for playing with such an attacking line up? Yes, but we didn't.

I am still waiting until after January to pass judgement, but I don't understand why it is going to take 10 million to get a team that will be play off contenders, when we had one at the start of the season (minus Wayne Brown).

[ibbosuk]

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[Edmund]

Wesolowski's a Leicester fan?

[Kitchandro]

my interperetation was that he played ok (was in birmingham so didnt see it but my brother went) when he came on at leeds and sven gambled with him (probably his last or last but one chance before he went back to west brom?) and it didnt pay off so he duely subbed him off. do you think that waghorns appearance at doncaster (despite the goal) really warranted a return to the first team?

i think we both agree on the whole. hope sven and the players buck their ideas up for hull or we will get hammered. the bednar experiment has been a total cock up for all involved.

No I don't

I think we should be starting the team that started the second half against Doncaster, with Waggy or Howard or both an impact option from the bench (for the time being until we sign a better striker)

I'm glad we agree on Bednar, I really think he hampers our attack Get rid is the first thing for Sven to do IMO

[themotivator]

Is it Sven's fault?

Is it Sven's fault Morrison, Hobbs, Cunningham, Naughton, Bednar, Gallagher etc... played badly today? no. its up to the players, a lot of them had points to prove in this game and blew it.

Is it Sven's fault that Hobbs has been in and out of the team since his arrival and Morrison has been doing bugger all in the non existent reserves? nobody wanted morro to continue fooking up in the first team, hobbs has been in and out because davies and vitor have shown glimpses of real quality and competition is healthy aaaaaand hobbs has been far from triumphant

Is it Sven's fault we started another away game with very attacking full backs? as opposed to..... berner and nielsen....

Is it Sven's fault we started an away game without a defensive midfielder or sufficient cover on the wings for the full backs? im sure a few people would argue oakley covered that role and played ok, seems like abe needed to be rested.

Is it Sven's fault we started with an unfit useless lump up front again? Yes i agree, but he subbed him at half time, these gambles dont always pay off.

If we had won 6-2 today would he be a hero for playing with such an attacking line up? of course. nobody would have minded if we won 2-1, which it could easily have been on another day.

I am still waiting until after January to pass judgement, but I don't understand why it is going to take 10 million to get a team that will be play off contenders, when we had one at the start of the season (minus Wayne Brown).

[CKB]

I believe we were riding on the crest of a wave and ended up play-offs last year because of that.. Just look at what Leeds are doing and do they have a better team than us?? no they do not

Yeah we have a couple of decent players but the following season was going to be even harder and we were going to be found out even more.. Granted the managerial roundabout didn't help things but i don't think even under Pearson we would have topped the steady heights we did last season

What has been found out is we have a average squad with a couple of decent players which is badly in need of permanent additions and quality in that.. This loan situation needs to be sorted we have way to many and that can not help with team spirit..1/2/3 at max is ok but nearly having a whole back line and a striker is not helping..

The back line at times is void of any communcation and whether this is to do with loanees, not a week in week out steady back line or what i don't know but what i do know is Sven for the years of management skills he has, has to sort this out

If we can get Naughton till the end of the season good, Davies? well i'm not sure his heart is at Leicester at the moment whether he has been told he's going somewhere in Jan could be to do with his recent iffy performances, Cunningham i'd keep on, Bednar can go and as for Vitor? well he is here till the end of the season anyway, oh and as for Kirkland? no thanks..he is way to injury prone and it's killed his confidence totally

So hopefully Sven can get some good perminant players in, in Jan (which i know will be hard but in Sven i trust) and we will truely see a march up the table..and if not?? well i'll get back to you on that one!

[Captain...]

@ the motivator

The point was that it's not Sven's fault that we played so badly today, but he has to take part of the blame for the way he has handled our squad over the last few months and the line up he started with today.

I'm not saying play Berner and Nielsen, but playing one, probably Berner, would give us a more solid base for away games. The cavalier full backs works at home, but away I think it is one of the reasons we are struggling. Especially when we are potentially going to lose both of them in the next few weeks, we could only have Nielsen and Berner available, the other option would be Morrison at RB.

As it is Morrison has not played and is not going to be sharp, so it's not a surprise that he wasn't at his best today, neither would Berner.

So we started with Hobbs and Morrison at centre back as we had no other choice, they are not our best pairing and haven't played together for a while, and never with kirkland behind them. So why not give them some help, play a more defensive full back or midfield to cover them?

Why has Morrison not played? He and Hobbs are potnetially the future of this club surely he would have benefitted massively from 15 20 minutes of game time every so often partnering the likes of Vitor and Davies and giving the injury prone loanees a bit of extra rest.

[themotivator]

i agree with you to an extent. i dont think morrisson is the future of this club. hobbs and morrison know each others game well enough to play better than they did by now, no matter how long they have spent apart. by some accounts jack was good today, apart from his goal so he seems to be fine with the amount of football he's had. switching off like he did was a mistake and im sure he will be more alert next game.

i think that berner could come in, but he is often caught short at the back himself. and seeing as naughton is by far the most attacking fullback it would seem more sensible to move him out and nielsen or morrisson in, but i have no faith in either of them and neither it seems does sven.

if it is a case that he's changed it about too much then you could have a point but can you blame him, coming into a squad like this one at the time he did?

[Captain...]

i agree with you to an extent. i dont think morrisson is the future of this club. hobbs and morrison know each others game well enough to play better than they did by now, no matter how long they have spent apart. by some accounts jack was good today, apart from his goal so he seems to be fine with the amount of football he's had. switching off like he did was a mistake and im sure he will be more alert next game.

i think that berner could come in, but he is often caught short at the back himself. and seeing as naughton is by far the most attacking fullback it would seem more sensible to move him out and nielsen or morrisson in, but i have no faith in either of them and neither it seems does sven.

if it is a case that he's changed it about too much then you could have a point but can you blame him, coming into a squad like this one at the time he did?

I rate Morrison, but he needs games to improve, he is a good solid defender and has a good knack of scoring, especially from corners. Sven has not been helped by niggling injuries to Davies and Vitor, but I'm less sympathetic when they are loanees playing ahead of our players. I think Davies has lost interest and is waiting to move in January.

I do blame Sven for changing it about too much. We didn't need Bednar we have plenty of attacking options to experiment with, Kirkland is another who has caused disruption and added nothing. I think Vassell was a good signing but he needed to work for his place in the team and not walk straight into it.

Sven has still not settled on a formation nor his best players, and the ones that are guaranteed a start are generally not ours, or not up to it (King and Wellens apart).

He will be judged after January, and he will have no excuses, until then I remain unconvinced.

[themotivator]

so if a manager improves a floundering team in half a season he should still be sacked if he's not up to your standards? its true that fans know their players very well, most certainly better than sven when he arrived and you may know more of morrissons ability than sven has seen up untill this point, but that doesnt mean he's failing by any stretch of the imagination. it also doesnt mean that you would be better at managing the team.

morrisson isnt the answer imo. i agree we need stability though and we will hopefully start to see some soon...probably around early feb.

[Captain...]

so if a manager improves a floundering team in half a season he should still be sacked if he's not up to your standards? its true that fans know their players very well, most certainly better than sven when he arrived and you may know more of morrissons ability than sven has seen up untill this point, but that doesnt mean he's failing by any stretch of the imagination. it also doesnt mean that you would be better at managing the team.

morrisson isnt the answer imo. i agree we need stability though and we will hopefully start to see some soon...probably around early feb.

I'm not saying Morrison is the answer, but he had to play today and looked terrible, given 20 minutes here or there would have kept him fit, likewise Berner, Neilsen, Moussa. Whilst giving other players a rest.

Sven has improved the team, but despite all his improvements we are still 17th, and playing terribly for long periods. I don't want him to be sacked, we need stability, but at this time 3 years ago I didn't want Holloway to be sacked. What Sven has failed to realise is that we are shipping too many goals, and normally early in the game, and I don't understand why he hasn't done anything to change it. Start the game in a less cavalier attitude, bring in a more defensive minded full back, and let us get a hold on the game before unleashing some of our fast attacking players off the bench. Or even play a more orthodox 442 and dropping Gallagher for a more mobile and defensive player, maybe Oakley Wellens Abe and King as a containing midfield with Cunningham and Naughton providing width.

I don't think I am better manager than Sven but sometimes I look at the starting line up and how we play and I don't get it. I think Sven should have spent more time getting to know the squad we had and their strengths and weaknesses because now we are struggling a bit he doesn't know where to look to resolve it.

[themotivator]

alan young commented that it looked like morrisson had been looking after himself and was slightley leaner than earlier in the season, which would suggest that either he is fitter than he was when he last had a run of games or he's gone of the rails on smack. i doubt 20 mins here and there would improve his fitness and i dont know in what situation you would bring him on. if we are losing, he would be a wasted sub as he couldnt turn a result around and if we are winning then he just becomes a liability and adds weakness to a defence who have faired ok.

you are suggesting a lineup of

goalie

nielson - morrisson - Hobbs - berner

abe- king- wellens dyer

waghorn/vassell? - howard?

or something along those lines?

it sounds like what you are suggesting is more tinkering or a return to what sousa played pretty much...

[lcfc_jme]

Yeah we were actually a joke today. Even at 2-0 down there was little or no urgency whatsoever and we still looked so, so vulnerable. It bordered on embarrassing at times.

Wasn't confident in picking up a result today when I heard the team news and that appeared fully justified based on the shower of shite that unfolded on the field. Well and truly bullied all over the field and never really looked up for the fight. First half our defending was hideous to watch, our midfield was almost entirely anonymous (deja vu, anyone?) and going forward we were absolutely clueless. Roman Bednar was actually a complete disgrace to the profession of football and I was actually ecstatic to see him depart. He makes Howard look like a mobile Olympic high-jumper, useless cvnt. And yes, it's going to seem like I'm hating on Gallagher just because it's the "in-thing" to do at the moment, but he is fvcking ridiculous; the guy lacks any semblance of urgency, has next to no desire or ability to win a header despite being 6-foot tall and flatters to deceive so, so often. Not that Lloyd was much better either.

Defenders should certainly have done better; Cunningham got absolutely nonced for their first goal and really should've done an awful lot better. As for their second, Jack Hobbs and Michael Morrison should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Seriously. I'd be mortified if any Sunday League side I was playing for allowed the ball to drop in the box and bounce whilst staring at each other paralysed by ineptitude and retardation. Disgraceful. Equally as disgraceful as those placing the blame fully on Chris Kirkland for the two goals. I firmly believe that - unless a keeper drops a right clanger or gets beaten by a pearler - that the 'keeper is only as good as the defence infront of him. Kirkland has absolutely no chance at the moment playing behind our first half defence or our away defence. It's an absolute joke.

Second half we came out better as expected and looked a little more urgent for 10 minutes. If Lloyd had scored his chance (which was easier to score than miss, in my opinion) we'd probably have gone on to take a point minimum. Howard's chance was also that easy for me. Our team today looked like they couldn't finish a wank between them let alone a fvcking sitter. Dreadful form infront of goal. Oh, and it was nice to see that when we were running out of time our team was willing to counter-attack Millwall in numbers (NOT) and we would rather have played pretty possession football than lump it in and around the box, even going backwards at numerous times.

Horror tackle on Wellens, definite red. Things badly need to change really, we're SO bad away from home with the same players and system that we're so good at home with. Problematic and Svennis needs to dig deep for the answer.

Millwall were not good today, they were - as were Leeds - very organised, pressed hard and got physical, taking their chances when they came. Hats off to them. Morison is a fvcking ox, he dominated our back line and everything just sticks to him.

[Mikey]

Morison completely outshone Bednar as a big man today.

So hard too see who's the ex premiership striker and who's the ex non league striker!

[Kitchandro]

Yeah we were actually a joke today. Even at 2-0 down there was little or no urgency whatsoever and we still looked so, so vulnerable. It bordered on embarrassing at times.

Wasn't confident in picking up a result today when I heard the team news and that appeared fully justified based on the shower of shite that unfolded on the field. Well and truly bullied all over the field and never really looked up for the fight. First half our defending was hideous to watch, our midfield was almost entirely anonymous (deja vu, anyone?) and going forward we were absolutely clueless. Roman Bednar was actually a complete disgrace to the profession of football and I was actually ecstatic to see him depart. He makes Howard look like a mobile Olympic high-jumper, useless cvnt.

Defenders should certainly have done better; Cunningham got absolutely nonced for their first goal and really should've done an awful lot better. As for their second, Jack Hobbs and Michael Morrison should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Seriously. I'd be mortified if any Sunday League side I was playing for allowed the ball to drop in the box and bounce whilst staring at each other paralysed by ineptitude and retardation. Disgraceful.

Second half we came out better as expected and looked a little more urgent for 10 minutes. If Lloyd had scored his chance (which was easier to score than miss, in my opinion) we'd probably have gone on to take a point minimum. Howard's chance was also that easy for me. Our team today looked like they couldn't finish a wank between them let alone a fvcking sitter.

[Captain...]

alan young commented that it looked like morrisson had been looking after himself and was slightley leaner than earlier in the season, which would suggest that either he is fitter than he was when he last had a run of games or he's gone of the rails on smack. i doubt 20 mins here and there would improve his fitness and i dont know in what situation you would bring him on. if we are losing, he would be a wasted sub as he couldnt turn a result around and if we are winning then he just becomes a liability and adds weakness to a defence who have faired ok.

you are suggesting a lineup of

goalie

nielson - morrisson - Hobbs - berner

abe- king- wellens dyer

waghorn/vassell? - howard?

or something along those lines?

it sounds like what you are suggesting is more tinkering or a return to what sousa played pretty much...

I think with the players we had today we would have been better off with

Weale

Naughton - Morrisson - Hobbs - Berner

Abe

Oakely- Wellens

King

Waghorn - Vassell

With the likes of Dyer/Cunningham/Gallagher/Howard ready to come on and attack if needed

Obviously Davies is better than Morrison, with regard to Morrison's fitness I was referring more to match fitness and sharpness than actual fitness fitness.

But Berner will suffer from the same problem Morrison did and that is being shut out in the cold for so long he isn't match sharp.

Maybe all it needs is just a change of attitude playing very defensively to start with and not giving away sloppy early goals.