Millwall - Post Match Thread

[themotivator]

I think with the players we had today we would have been better off with

Weale

Naughton - Morrisson - Hobbs - Berner

Abe

Oakely- Wellens

King

Waghorn - Vassell

With the likes of Dyer/Cunningham/Gallagher/Howard ready to come on and attack if needed

Obviously Davies is better than Morrison, with regard to Morrison's fitness I was referring more to match fitness and sharpness than actual fitness fitness.

But Berner will suffer from the same problem Morrison did and that is being shut out in the cold for so long he isn't match sharp.

Maybe all it needs is just a change of attitude playing very defensively to start with and not giving away sloppy early goals.

who's to know that bruno wouldnt have been torn apart today. he's slow and out of touch although i agree it would be nice to give him a go now and then, but maybe he is still shit in training, who knows? sven obviously rates cunningham as a bright one for the future.

bednar was the only real mistake today in my opinion and he was removed at half time, but i dont blame sven for wanting an alternative to howard. waghorn or vassell would have been my preferred alternatives.

[Kirby fox]

heskey wouldnt mind it...................

heskeys son goes to my school and i asked him if emile was tempted to come to us when he was linked with us and apparently he was very close to coming

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Well that was an abysmal performance yesterday. Had a top day out with some Millwall lads who were not too cocky after the game thankfully.

I think it is painfully obvious that we need some personalities in the side. Steve Howard apart there is not anybody who will dish out a bollocking to their colleagues when needed. Again we were just bullied out of the game, Millwall adapted their tactics to play us and had little trouble in holding on to the lead even with 10 men. We will lose more than we win if it continues.

I can not think of a single stand out player yesterday. It was summed up pretty accurately for me by a Millwall fan who said to me "Look at our team and how many of them would get in to your team?" There in lies the problem though. Football is a team game and they played as an effective unit. We on the other hand played like we did not know each other. Our players need to stand up and be counted and start battling. I want to see a bit of nastiness as opposed to the namby pamby way we are playing.

[Fosse Boy]

Yesterday was just a case of us making more mistakes at the back than they did really, poor performance all round though.

As for any of you ****** chanting "WE-ULL! WE-ULL!" while Kirkland was still on the pitch, and then chanting it for any kind of inane action Weale made in the second half, I would be fucking delighted if you never rocked up to a City game again.

I've been a great advocate of Weale's but in what way is undermining Kirkland going to do any good whatsoever while he's still on the pitch? Support your team you dickheads.

[marbelladave]

We played poorly and got beat,quite deservedly.

The strange thing is that a fair few of our players played quite well, some of the time at least but bar a few minutes at the start of the second half we never looked like a team.

We were missing application, determination and teamwork, very worrying. I can only hope that after the window whoever we have can settle down and start playing as a team. We have some decent players but I can only assume the uncertanty and lack of stability has got to them.

Time for Sven to earn his corn...

[Anish]

I don't think anyone deserves any credit after that performance, they were all hopeless in the first half and utterly clueless in the second when we had the man advantage. The slow tempo, laboured approach when we were 2-0 down chasing the game was absolutely stupid. We started playing sideways and backwards passing allowing Millwall to get players behind the ball and into position and that made it easy for them to ride out the victory. If anything, they looked more threatening than we did on the counter attack thanks to our useless defending and non-existent defensive support from midfield.

I really do wonder what defensive work we do in training because we keep conceding soft goal after soft goal. It's painful to watch our defenders get bullied and outmuscled by opposing attackers too.

Sven's loanees (apart from Naughton, who is still defensively suspect) are looking worse by each passing match. Kirkland hasn't saved a single shot and inspires no confidence whatsoever, Davies has an attitude problem, Bednar is a disgrace and Cunningham cannot defend.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Sven's loanees (apart from Naughton, who is still defensively suspect) are looking worse by each passing match. Kirkland hasn't saved a single shot and inspires no confidence whatsoever, Davies has an attitude problem, Bednar is a disgrace and Cunningham cannot defend.

What do you base that comment on?

[marbelladave]

What do you base that comment on?

Actually I agree with Anish and have said so for some time.

It is not that he is 'difficult' or 'mouthy' or anything like that, more that he plays like he thinks Championship football is a bit beneath him, he is overconfident, a bit cocky even and seems to be playing for himself rather than for the team. Just a view on what I have seen, maybe thats his style, might look great in a more solid back 4 than ours but we need someone with prescence who will play for the team and that does not appear to be Davies.

[Fmfox]

maybe we weren't playing like a team because it is always changing and there are always new players playing who have never even played together before

[Guest Basildon Fox]

maybe we weren't playing like a team because it is always changing and there are always new players playing who have never even played together before

Like who? They have all had a good couple of months to work together so this is not an excuse. The biggest problem IMO that we have been worked out. If people try to play football against us in this division I would back us to win 9 times out of 10 but teams already know we are spineless and are too easily bullied out of games. We are going backwards rather than forwards and we need to come back with something different and the players need to grow some balls.

[marbelladave]

maybe we weren't playing like a team because it is always changing and there are always new players playing who have never even played together before

Our team has been quite settled for a while now, though there is some truth in this when it comes to our central defensive pairing.

The other issue is that a fair few of our players think they will not be here after January and if they continue to play like that, then that will be the case!

[ibbosuk]

Our team has been quite settled for a while now, though there is some truth in this when it comes to our central defensive pairing.

The other issue is that a fair few of our players think they will not be here after January and if they continue to play like that, then that will be the case!

Hopefully alot of them wont be here after Jan, there is not one player in the the city side that I would be bothered about selling and that includes King as there have been lots of games this season where you would not know he was on the pitch, if a good offer comes in for him SELL!

Let sge build his team/squad then we can all judge him.

:sge: spend says "Thank you ibbosuk for you support, I think you will all be very happy with who I bring to your football club in January"

[marbelladave]

Hopefully alot of them wont be here after Jan, there is not one player in the the city side that I would be bothered about selling and that includes King as there have been lots of games this season where you would not know he was on the pitch, if a good offer comes in for him SELL!

Let sge build his team/squad then we can all judge him.

:sge: spend says "Thank you ibbosuk for you support, I think you will all be very happy with who I bring to your football club in January"

No player is irreplaceable but no club moves forward by selling it's best players.

A massive influx of players is probably not a good idea, there is really not enough time to do a complete rebuild, then push for a playoff spot, the expendature would be wasted and anyway large scale rebuilding is best done in the summer.

(A brief word about King, as our top goalscorer he is being pushed further and further forward, this for me is a big error! He is no longer able to make his trademark late runs as he is already well forward and heavily marked. It was noticeable against Millwall that what chances did fall to him found him flat footed and largely stationary, not bursting into the box at pace.)

[themotivator]

the thing that worries me about our "best player" king is that often, if he isn't scoring goals, you wont know he is on the pitch. i feel like he needs to improve quite a few aspects of his play to maintain his status of key player. I'm sure he will though, as he is still young enough and has great foundations to build on.

[Thracian]

Hopefully alot of them wont be here after Jan, there is not one player in the the city side that I would be bothered about selling and that includes King as there have been lots of games this season where you would not know he was on the pitch, if a good offer comes in for him SELL!

Let sge build his team/squad then we can all judge him.

:sge: spend says "Thank you ibbosuk for you support, I think you will all be very happy with who I bring to your football club in January"

Where do we stop Ibbo? Get rid of the few good players we develop and then fail to utilise in a team that's worthy of them. And get rid of those we bring in from outside, month after month, season after season.. Are they really all bad players? Or are they all finding it impossible to cope the constant comings and goings, the merry-go-round of team changes the endless speculation that makes everyone wonder if they'll be a forgotten man next week.

And what the hell are they all being asked to fit into? The only relatively successful manager we've had at this club for over a decade is Nigel Pearson. Resentful of all but his inner circle maybe, and boring as hell from an entertainment point of view, Pearson nevertheless had his way of doing things - a small squad playing regularly together in a basically regular framework.

Okay, no-one was outstanding but even relatively ordinary players like Berner knew what was required, knew who was around them and performed consistently because they knew what they were trying to do.

Times I've said it is folly to have a big squad with all the changes and simmering resentment that goes with it and times I've said that rent-a-mob only adds to that resentment.

We need to build something. Sensibly, steadily and with people who have the character to bring the best out of people. We need coaches who do the same but from what I see on the pitch the coaching is either lamentable or the players aren't listening or putting it into practice.

I've never expected promotion this season given the ridiculous close-season upheaval and all the disruption that followed. But I had expected to see some signs of sensible development. Frankly we're becoming a laughing stock. The club with everything who can do nothing.

[Stevosevic]

Blimey, just seen the highlights on the BBC website.

Gallagher, Dyer and Howard Got to score at least two of those. Gallagher should have just squared it to Bednar.

Very frustrating, sloppy defending for their goals.

[marbelladave]

Where do we stop Ibbo? Get rid of the few good players we develop and then fail to utilise in a team that's worthy of them. And get rid of those we bring in from outside, month after month, season after season.. Are they really all bad players? Or are they all finding it impossible to cope the constant comings and goings, the merry-go-round of team changes the endless speculation that makes everyone wonder if they'll be a forgotten man next week.

And what the hell are they all being asked to fit into? The only relatively successful manager we've had at this club for over a decade is Nigel Pearson. Resentful of all but his inner circle maybe, and boring as hell from an entertainment point of view, Pearson nevertheless had his way of doing things - a small squad playing regularly together in a basically regular framework.

Okay, no-one was outstanding but even relatively ordinary players like Berner knew what was required, knew who was around them and performed consistently because they knew what they were trying to do.

Times I've said it is folly to have a big squad with all the changes and simmering resentment that goes with it and times I've said that rent-a-mob only adds to that resentment.

We need to build something. Sensibly, steadily and with people who have the character to bring the best out of people. We need coaches who do the same but from what I see on the pitch the coaching is either lamentable or the players aren't listening or putting it into practice.

I've never expected promotion this season given the ridiculous close-season upheaval and all the disruption that followed. But I had expected to see some signs of sensible development. Frankly we're becoming a laughing stock. The club with everything who can do nothing.

Whilst this is by and large correct, it doesn't help us because the owners and the bulk of the fans want success and they want it now...

None of this building for the future rubbish, our course was set when Sven was brought in, hold the fort till the window, then buy what you need to mount a promotion push.

Will it work? Maybe if the right players are available but, frankly I doubt they will be. However that is what the owners want and assuming they are prepared to fund Sven, that is what we are going to get.

It will be an interesting though not particularly uplifting experience...

[ibbosuk]

Where do we stop Ibbo? Get rid of the few good players we develop and then fail to utilise in a team that's worthy of them. And get rid of those we bring in from outside, month after month, season after season.. Are they really all bad players? Or are they all finding it impossible to cope the constant comings and goings, the merry-go-round of team changes the endless speculation that makes everyone wonder if they'll be a forgotten man next week.

And what the hell are they all being asked to fit into? The only relatively successful manager we've had at this club for over a decade is Nigel Pearson. Resentful of all but his inner circle maybe, and boring as hell from an entertainment point of view, Pearson nevertheless had his way of doing things - a small squad playing regularly together in a basically regular framework.

Okay, no-one was outstanding but even relatively ordinary players like Berner knew what was required, knew who was around them and performed consistently because they knew what they were trying to do.

Times I've said it is folly to have a big squad with all the changes and simmering resentment that goes with it and times I've said that rent-a-mob only adds to that resentment.

We need to build something. Sensibly, steadily and with people who have the character to bring the best out of people. We need coaches who do the same but from what I see on the pitch the coaching is either lamentable or the players aren't listening or putting it into practice.

I've never expected promotion this season given the ridiculous close-season upheaval and all the disruption that followed. But I had expected to see some signs of sensible development. Frankly we're becoming a laughing stock. The club with everything who can do nothing.

Points taken Thracian, but I have a feeling that Spend is going to be absolutely ruthless with this squad of players, and its going to be what you fear a root-and-branch overhaul. I don't think it's spends fault he's been given the time line to get us back into the premiership, so he's not going to hang about..

:sge: SPEND SAYS: "Jag har ett tåg att passa "

[Thracian]

Whilst this is by and large correct, it doesn't help us because the owners and the bulk of the fans want success and they want it now...

None of this building for the future rubbish, our course was set when Sven was brought in, hold the fort till the window, then buy what you need to mount a promotion push.

Will it work? Maybe if the right players are available but, frankly I doubt they will be. However that is what the owners want and assuming they are prepared to fund Sven, that is what we are going to get.

It will be an interesting though not particularly uplifting experience...

Sven was meant to give us some impetus long before the window opened.

Yet, it seems to me that, whatever the owners want, the surviving players from the Pearson era are mostly playing worse or are insufficiently involved (King and Wellens being the only exceptions) and the people we've bought in, either permanently or on loan, are seriously disappointing.

Indeed I'm not at all sure that any one of them really offers enough to be in a promotion-winning team. I'm just not 100% certain it's all to do with the players themselves or whether the management is more at fault.

Let's take the simple example of Fryatt. Everyone knows I'm not his biggest fan but that doesn't blind me to the belief that, given a full season in the team, he'd surely score 15 goals in The Championship.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/Goalscorers/0,,10794~201010274~7,00.html

But, as the stats say, he's scored twice and hardly been involved. The only way management can justify not using him is if they replace him with someone who's at least as effective as a goalscorer and hopefully more effective as a creator. Instead we've brought in Bednar, who looks appalling, and Vassell who we don't seem to know where to play for the best.

So, are Vassell and Bednar hopeless in which you'd have to question Sven's ability to make effective signings in the window? Or are they good players we're failing to get the best from? Either way it's not very encouraging. And it's made even worse when you realise the same situation applies almosty everywhere else.

Weale's been replaced by a bloke who was and is demonstrably unfit. What sort of decision-making is that? Back line replacements have only served to make the defence leak like a cullinder. And you have to question whether Abe, Gallagher, Vassell etc are offering sufficient defensive protection.

Pearson didn't leave us a mess to clear. He left us a team that just needed tweaking . A team that needed more goals and more pace from more positions. Dead easy you'd think. But no. What we've delivered is a demolition job and employed what looks like cowboys to provide the rebuild,

Why? Why sign loanees that aren't better than what we've had? Is it not glaringly obvious that if those people were so bloody brilliant they'd be in their own teams? Now we seem set to continue with our policy but on a bigger scale. Who knows how much more money will be potentially wasted.

Because, make no mistake, the new boys will have to bed in as well. And in a situation where every club will be closing us down, making life uncomfortable and whispering in our players' ears about the consequences if things go wrong.

One day perhaps we'll realise. You build a team in the close season and have it ready to make it's statement when the season starts.

You don't throw oddments together as you go along.

[ibbosuk]

Sven was meant to give us some impetus long before the window opened.

Yet,it seems to me that, for all the owners want, the surviving players from the Pearson era are mostly playing worse or are insufficiently involved (King and Wellens being the only exceptions) and the people we've bought in, either permanently or on loan, are seriously disappointing.

Indeed I'm not at all sure that any one of them really offers enough to be in a promotion-winning team. I'm just not 100% certain it's all to do with the players themselves or whether the management is more at fault.

Let's take the simple example of Fryatt. Everyone knows I'm not his biggest fan but that doesn't blind me to the belief that, given a full season in the team, he'd surely score 15 goals in The Championship.

http://www.football-...10274~7,00.html

But, as the stats say, he's scored twice and hardly been involved. The only way management can justify not using him is if they replace him with someone who's at least as effective as a goalscorer and hopefully more effective as a creator. Instead we've brought in Bednar, who looks appalling, and Vassell who we don't seem to know where to play for the best.

So, are Vassell and Bednar hopeless in which you'd have to question Sven's ability to make effective signings in the window? Or are they good players we're failing to get the best from? Either way it's not very encouraging. And it's made even worse when you realise the same situation applies almosty everywhere else.

Weale's been replaced by a bloke who was and is demonstrably unfit. What sort of decision-making is that? Back line replacements have only served to make the defence leak like a cullinder. And you have to question whether Abe, Gallagher, Vassell etc are offering sufficient defensive protection.

Pearson didn't leave us a mess to clear. He left us a team that just needed tweaking . A team that needed more goals and more pace from more positions. Dead easy you'd think. But no. What we've delivered is a demolition job and employed what looks like cowboys to provide the rebuild,

Why? Why sign loanees that aren't better than what we've had? Is it not glaringly obvious that if those people were so bloody brilliant they'd be in their own teams? Now we seem set to continue with our policy but on a bigger scale. Who knows how much more money will be potentially wasted.

Because, make no mistake, the new boys will have to bed in as well. And in a situation where every club will be closing us down, making life uncomfortable and whispering in our players' ears about the consequences if things go wrong.

One day perhaps we'll realise. You build a team in the closing season and have it ready to make it's statement when the season starts.

You don't throw oddments together as you go along.

I am the wrong one to talk to about stability, as I dont really believe in it, or that you have to build the team slowly, I firmly believe we can bring in 6 players in the Jan window and we can get promoted...

Who's in or who's out I don't really care, if the likes of king gets sold in January and we get promoted this season it will be looked apon as a fantastic bit of business and a means to an end.

:sge:SPEND SAYS: " ja jag är en gud i väntan "

[PAULCFC]

Yesterday was just a case of us making more mistakes at the back than they did really, poor performance all round though.

As for any of you ****** chanting "WE-ULL! WE-ULL!" while Kirkland was still on the pitch, and then chanting it for any kind of inane action Weale made in the second half, I would be fucking delighted if you never rocked up to a City game again.

I've been a great advocate of Weale's but in what way is undermining Kirkland going to do any good whatsoever while he's still on the pitch? Support your team you dickheads.

THIS.....Same with the "Blowing bubbles".How small time must we have looked.

[Fosse Boy]

THIS.....Same with the "Blowing bubbles".How small time must we have looked.

That was only one weirdo wasn't it? Thankfully...

[1964FOX]

That was only one weirdo wasn't it? Thankfully...

Nope whole group of lads next to me sang it.

[martyn]

Few days after the event now but my bullet point assessment.

1) We desperately need a leader/organiser in the centre of the park, be it in defence or midfield

2) Our midfielders need to toughen up.

3) We have too many confidence players who are ineffective when the going gets tough.

4) We play far far too narrow.

5) We lacked urgency and speed of ball movement.

[James.]

Few days after the event now but my bullet point assessment.

1) We desperately need a leader/organiser in the centre of the park, be it in defence or midfield

2) Our midfielders need to toughen up.

3) We have too many confidence players who are ineffective when the going gets tough.

4) We play far far too narrow.

5) We lacked urgency and speed of ball movement.

I've been out of the country so Leeds and Millwall were my first two games of the season and I think we suffered from all of the above in both games. The only thing I would add is that Kirkland really worried me with what looked like a complete lack of communication with the defence and a lack of willingness to come off his line.