Cameron's Big Society

[Jon the Hat]

But they certainly added to it. How much did we spend on bailing them out?

Added to that our country's reliance on banking and service industry as a main economic force coupled with the huge decline of UK manufacturing

But I had a library, my children had a bus to school, the less able had carers et etc etc. Now I pay more tax and have less services.

Not much spent bailing them out once we sell them again.

True.

This is a bit like saying when you were spending on your credit card you could afford more clothes, nicer wine and to eat out a couple of times a week, but now you have hit your credit limit you cannot afford some of the things which you paid for with borrowing before. No shit sherlock. If you want to pay it back you have to make some tough decisions right?

[Zingari]

When we talk about bankers , i think it's important to separate our normal view of high street bankers from "The Money Masters – ie the International Banking Cartel"

“The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate

the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole…

Their secret is that they have annexed from governments, monarchies, and republics the power to create the world’s money…” – Prof. Carroll Quigley,

“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money,

and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine

will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in.

But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money .”

– Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England (in the 1920s);

come on Empty , there's a massive conspiracy angle to this one

[Thracian]

The bankers did not cause the structural deficit. The structural deficit is why we are having to make sizeable cuts to spending. You could argue that we could have gone on living on credit had there not been a global financial meltdown caused by a whole range of factors, but that still ignores the fact that Labour spent Trillions more than they had for a decade, and didn't really do much with it.

You'll get nowhere Jon. We've had decades of deceitful social engineering, of the most irresponsible spending of cash we didn't have, of the most shameful waste and yet the socialists remain in denial in terms of responsibility.

Their predictable and overriding role now is to resist and baulk the new government's attempts to legacy of damage that is perhaps all-but irrepairable.

And the saddest thing of all is that people who've actually been calculatingly shafted by Labour still support them.

Meanwhile Labour councils all over the country do all they can to make sure sure any cuts hit the things that will provoke he most emotional reaction. Labour doesn't give a shit about England or the English. They care only about power and inflicting their misguided, incentive-destroying "mother state" philosophies on anyone daft enough listen.

I wonder how many libraries and bus services could have been paid for with the money Good Christian Grin-and-Blair-It wasted on conning people into killing people in Iraq.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

I know, like the Holocaust, it didn't happen and isn't happening.

And Gordon Brown didn't sell the gold either!

In fact L:abour won't sincerely admit to doing anything wrong.

Labour had their turn and it was a long one. They had every chance possible to shape our nation into a place to be proud of. Instead they've virtually given our nation away to the dictates of Europe.

The entire two-term Labour administration was beneath contempt. The least they could do now is shut up for a few years and let someone else do their best to salvage something from the wreckage.

They won't because they have taken one admirable strength from the fundamentalist Muslim philosphy. They will talk to anyone and say whatever might be expedient but they don't even consider that they might be wrong and will only ever act to serve the advancement of their cause.

[Houdini Logic]

You'll get nowhere Jon. We've had decades of deceitful social engineering, of the most irresponsible spending of cash we didn't have, of the most shameful waste and yet the socialists remain in denial in terms of responsibility.

Their predictable and overriding role now is to resist and baulk the new government's attempts to legacy of damage that is perhaps all-but irrepairable.

And the saddest thing of all is that people who've actually been calculatingly shafted by Labour still support them.

Meanwhile Labour councils all over the country do all they can to make sure sure any cuts hit the things that will provoke he most emotional reaction. Labour doesn't give a shit about England or the English. They care only about power and inflicting their misguided, incentive-destroying "mother state" philosophies on anyone daft enough listen.

I wonder how many libraries and bus services could have been paid for with the money Good Christian Grin-and-Blair-It wasted on conning people into killing people in Iraq.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

I know, like the Holocaust, it didn't happen and isn't happening.

And Gordon Brown didn't sell the gold either!

In fact L:abour won't sincerely admit to doing anything wrong.

Labour had their turn and it was a long one. They had every chance possible to shape our nation into a place to be proud of. Instead they've virtually given our nation away to the dictates of Europe.

The entire two-term Labour administration was beneath contempt. The least they could do now is shut up for a few years and let someone else do their best to salvage something from the wreckage.

They won't because they have taken one admirable strength from the fundamentalist Muslim philosphy. They will talk to anyone and say whatever might be expedient but they don't even consider that they might be wrong and will only ever act to serve the advancement of their cause.

And your views on the big society?

[luckyalex13]

You'll get nowhere Jon. We've had decades of deceitful social engineering, of the most irresponsible spending of cash we didn't have, of the most shameful waste and yet the socialists remain in denial in terms of responsibility.

Their predictable and overriding role now is to resist and baulk the new government's attempts to legacy of damage that is perhaps all-but irrepairable.

And the saddest thing of all is that people who've actually been calculatingly shafted by Labour still support them.

Meanwhile Labour councils all over the country do all they can to make sure sure any cuts hit the things that will provoke he most emotional reaction. Labour doesn't give a shit about England or the English. They care only about power and inflicting their misguided, incentive-destroying "mother state" philosophies on anyone daft enough listen.

I wonder how many libraries and bus services could have been paid for with the money Good Christian Grin-and-Blair-It wasted on conning people into killing people in Iraq.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

I know, like the Holocaust, it didn't happen and isn't happening.

And Gordon Brown didn't sell the gold either!

In fact L:abour won't sincerely admit to doing anything wrong.

Labour had their turn and it was a long one. They had every chance possible to shape our nation into a place to be proud of. Instead they've virtually given our nation away to the dictates of Europe.

The entire two-term Labour administration was beneath contempt. The least they could do now is shut up for a few years and let someone else do their best to salvage something from the wreckage.

They won't because they have taken one admirable strength from the fundamentalist Muslim philosphy. They will talk to anyone and say whatever might be expedient but they don't even consider that they might be wrong and will only ever act to serve the advancement of their cause.

i think you will find that all politicians are the same and do not care about the english or england or infact the promises mase to get into power and are there for their own purposes and those of the rich funders of the political parties, it really does not matter which party is in power, they are all the same!

oh and what public service will you be volunteering to provide under the big society?

[Thracian]

i think you will find that all politicians are the same and do not care about the english or england or infact the promises mase to get into power and are there for their own purposes and those of the rich funders of the political parties, it really does not matter which party is in power, they are all the same!

It's a glib political catchphrase but i'm prepared to see how it works or otherwise before condemning it.

Devolving power to local councils given that some of them are Labour controlled seems risky to me but we'll see.

As for encouraging voluntary community help why not? I can see all sorts of potential benefits.

My middle son has recently become deeply involved in tree-planting and countryside maintenance in Stoke-on-Trent.

He's throughly enjoyed it, learned skills he'd never have learned otherwise and has enjoyed the comeraderie. His first hand comments have been nothing but positive. There's a good feeling to be had helping the community or people within a community who are down on their luck.

And if that help also improves skills and gives people a greater sense of their own worth and potential so much the better.

It is also a way of getting people from different backgrounds communicating.

I've been astounded by the benefits of that on places like Facebook and don't see why face-to-face communication should be any less beneficial.

Generally though I've not taken much notice of coalition politics. It was inevitable to me that there would have to be serious cutbacks and that it would be easy to persuade yourself to be against them. I knew that every vested interest would defend their corner on the NIMBY principle and that the Labour-loving trades unions would just shout "foul" at every opportunity.

But I'm prepared to sit back for a couple of years and see how things have started to work out then. And to see whether our economy is thriving once more or at least showing signs of being able to recover.

I do think Britain is handicapped by so many people having a socialist "mother state" mentality instead of an innovative, help-yourself-if-possible outlook. And, unless that can be changed it might well hinder the concept of "The Big Society"...a point reflected in the bleating about us heading towards a "sink-or-swim" society.

But whatever else I don't think Cameron would want it that way. For all Labour's predictable cynicism, Cameron knows about caring for those who cannot care for themelves and I think that, like me, he would rather there was more care going to those who genuinely need it and none going to those who don't and who are/have been cheating the system for years.

In the end I like to see the results of coalition ideas rather than listen to pre-judging rhetoric.

[Houdini Logic]

For all Labour's predictable cynicism, Cameron knows about caring for those who cannot care for themelves and I think that, like me, he would rather there was more care going to those who genuinely need it...

...by increasing VAT regardless of income.

[Thracian]

oh and what public service will you be volunteering to provide under the big society?

I do my bit already - please don't worry about that - and might well do more should the opportunity arise. My sons are the same in their different ways . In fact my oldest son has raised thousands of pounds for the Air Ambulance, sponsored all sorts of local causes over many years and he and his wife are involved with organised client-wide efforts to raise funds for various charities as we speak. My previous post referred to my middle son's involvement with tree-planting and countryside maintenance.

[luckyalex13]

Thracian,

good on your son, i am glad he is enjoying it and doing something good for the community, i have no problem with this, but if we are to continue this through to many many other areas then what are our taxes actually paying for?

Houdini Logic,

'Cameron knows about caring for those who cannot care for themelves'......... why? because his son was ill (which i would not wish upon anyone)? the money needs to be for people who need to care for people who need it....this completely counts out multi millionairres like Cameron and therefore he does not know what its like for 'ordinary people' to do anything, let alone all chip in together etc. 'we are all in this toghether', are we NO we are not.

sorry digressed a bit there

[luckyalex13]

I do my bit already - please don't worry about that - and might well do more should the opportunity arise. My sons are the same in their different ways . In fact my oldest son has raised thousands of pounds for the Air Ambulance, sponsored all sorts of local causes over many years and he and his wife are involved with organised client-wide efforts to raise funds for various charities as we speak. My previous post referred to my middle son's involvement with tree-planting and countryside maintenance.

you probably ( almost definatley) do more than me and so do the rest of your family, my comment was wrong, sorry.

[dave the caveman]

Reminds me of Tim in The Office, when speaking to Gareth: "Team Leader is just a name someone has given you to get you to do something they don't want to do for free."

I really can't see the Big Society as anything other than that. If it was a genuine charitable organisation appealing for help then it might carry at least a hint of sincerity, but when it comes from a tory leader, only their most blind and/or brain-dead supporters could possibly see it for anything other than just another cynical way to accumulate money at the expense of the ordinary british public.

[Zingari]

Do people really still believe in this mythical left/ right paradigm ?

All parties are ruled by the same elite UNELECTED individuals.

All parties work together ( are controlled ) on the big issues, then squabble about stuff like the third way , big society etc just keep up the left/ right illusion.

[Thracian]

you probably ( almost definatley) do more than me and so do the rest of your family, my comment was wrong, sorry.

Accepted. But i think you should get away from the wealth-poverty argument too. There are many historically weathy people who have known extreme hardship and yet give much time and money to helping others. And plenty in more modest circumstances - but who are still capable of contributing - who do damn all for anyone.

The saying "never judge a book by its cover" is quite sound.

[Houdini Logic]

Accepted. But i think you should get away from the wealth-poverty argument too. There are many historically weathy people who have known extreme hardship and yet give much time and money to helping others. And plenty in more modest circumstances - but who are still capable of contributing - who do damn all for anyone.

The saying "never judge a book by its cover" is quite sound.

You're right - as long as we're all cleaning shit off the streets and singing songs together, who actually cares about the people who can't afford to eat when they get home

[l444ry]

Of course charities and voluntary groups have an important place in civil society but they are no replacement for public services.

The Big Society is an attempt to bring back the Universal Benevolence Society, run by Sir Graball d' Bankbonus, Lady Jerrybuilt Property and Rev. Nosyparker.

[Jon the Hat]

Of course charities and voluntary groups have an important place in civil society but they are no replacement for public services.

The Big Society is an attempt to bring back the Universal Benevolence Society, run by Sir Graball d' Bankbonus, Lady Jerrybuilt Property and Rev. Nosyparker.

Can you give us some examples of where it is proposed to replace services provided by government to be replaced by charities & voluntary groups?

[Thracian]

You're right - as long as we're all cleaning shit off the streets and singing songs together, who actually cares about the people who can't afford to eat when they get home

I thought it was Labour who believed in us all singing from the same songsheet and with everyone gathering in the UK to do it. It is Labour who've created such a ridiculously competitive environment for every job that's available. Labour who lowered education standards with their constant tinkering and pointless degree courses, Labour who brought multi-lingual people into what was an increasingly global market place and yet failed to develop the language skills of the home based population.

It was Labour who filled our streets with incomers who realised they could send English money back to their homelands where it would be worth far more than it is here and who therefore ensured that a whole stack of money is earned here but not spent here to the cost of our economy. It is Labour who has overburdened our services to breaking point and in turn further damaged our economy.

Labour once represented the working man - as in productive people who made things that turned a profit - but Labour's predominant answer to the jobs crisis was to increase dependency on the state by employing armies of public sector workers who often produce nothing that can be sold. Decreasing profit = decreasing assets = decreasing credibility = the increasing advance of potential bankruptcy.

That said I'd doubt you need to go hungry if you're prepared to work hard.

Cleaning loos? Is that so much worse than my young son peeling potatoes for 75 hours a week and often 13 hours per shift. My lad left school aged 8. He's a manual worker. He got offered three good jobs in one day at the beginning of this month. Don't tell me there's no work if you want it.

But he was prepared to go to Norwich, Berkshire or Scotland if necessary. If you want something enough you'll go get it. If you don't why the bloody hell should I work in the freezing cold of Leicester market in midwinter to pay for you? Assuming you are able bodied.

[Dr The Singh]

Of course charities and voluntary groups have an important place in civil society but they are no replacement for public services.

The Big Society is an attempt to bring back the Universal Benevolence Society, run by Sir Graball d' Bankbonus, Lady Jerrybuilt Property and Rev. Nosyparker.

I've boned her, she was shit in bed!!

[Houdini Logic]

Can you give us some examples of where it is proposed to replace services provided by government to be replaced by charities & voluntary groups?

''As the state spends less and does less - which would be happening whichever party was in government - there would be a positive benefit if some parts of society were to step forward and do more''

[Benji]

If you want something enough you'll go get it. If you don't why the bloody hell should I work in the freezing cold of Leicester market in midwinter to pay for you? Assuming you are able bodied.

Because you should. Life isn't about what you earn, it's about what you owe to those that don't do. I've spent the last 3 to 4 years chained to a desk or library just to get to the stage of a trainee, I for one cannot wait to see none of the rewards.

[Dr The Singh]

I thought it was Labour who believed in us all singing from the same songsheet and with everyone gathering in the UK to do it. It is Labour who've created such a ridiculously competitive environment for every job that's available. Labour who lowered education standards with their constant tinkering and pointless degree courses, Labour who brought multi-lingual people into what was an increasingly global market place and yet failed to develop the language skills of the home based population.

It was Labour who filled our streets with incomers who realised they could send English money back to their homelands where it would be worth far more than it is here and who therefore ensured that a whole stack of money is earned here but not spent here to the cost of our economy. It is Labour who has overburdened our services to breaking point and in turn further damaged our economy.

Labour once represented the working man - as in productive people who made things that turned a profit - but Labour's predominant answer to the jobs crisis was to increase dependency on the state by employing armies of public sector workers who often produce nothing that can be sold. Decreasing profit = decreasing assets = decreasing credibility = the increasing advance of potential bankruptcy.

That said I'd doubt you need to go hungry if you're prepared to work hard.

Cleaning loos? Is that so much worse than my young son peeling potatoes for 75 hours a week and often 13 hours per shift. My lad left school aged 8. He's a manual worker. He got offered three good jobs in one day at the beginning of this month. Don't tell me there's no work if you want it.

But he was prepared to go to Norwich, Berkshire or Scotland if necessary. If you want something enough you'll go get it. If you don't why the bloody hell should I work in the freezing cold of Leicester market in midwinter to pay for you? Assuming you are able bodied.

Agreed Thrac, Labour was shit, but so is this big society idea. Cameron, may have the right intentions but with so much social deprevation and lack of funds, the big society has as much success as me pulling on a saturday night!!

[Dr The Singh]

''As the state spends less and does less - which would be happening whichever party was in government - there would be a positive benefit if some parts of society were to step forward and do more''

Do more what, shagging, drinking and pornography??? There's a big section of society tht is relatively healthy and unwilling to work, make them do more!!

[Houdini Logic]

I thought it was Labour who believed in us all singing from the same songsheet and with everyone gathering in the UK to do it. It is Labour who've created such a ridiculously competitive environment for every job that's available. Labour who lowered education standards with their constant tinkering and pointless degree courses, Labour who brought multi-lingual people into what was an increasingly global market place and yet failed to develop the language skills of the home based population.

It was Labour who filled our streets with incomers who realised they could send English money back to their homelands where it would be worth far more than it is here and who therefore ensured that a whole stack of money is earned here but not spent here to the cost of our economy. It is Labour who has overburdened our services to breaking point and in turn further damaged our economy.

Labour once represented the working man - as in productive people who made things that turned a profit - but Labour's predominant answer to the jobs crisis was to increase dependency on the state by employing armies of public sector workers who often produce nothing that can be sold. Decreasing profit = decreasing assets = decreasing credibility = the increasing advance of potential bankruptcy.

That said I'd doubt you need to go hungry if you're prepared to work hard.

Cleaning loos? Is that so much worse than my young son peeling potatoes for 75 hours a week and often 13 hours per shift. My lad left school aged 8. He's a manual worker. He got offered three good jobs in one day at the beginning of this month. Don't tell me there's no work if you want it.

But he was prepared to go to Norwich, Berkshire or Scotland if necessary. If you want something enough you'll go get it. If you don't why the bloody hell should I work in the freezing cold of Leicester market in midwinter to pay for you? Assuming you are able bodied.

Have you ever heard the expression 'less is more'? I think if I hadn't read this kind of crap from you 100 times before then I might bother reading it, as it happens I got to the part where you said 'incomers' and gave up. I'm not even a Labour supporter, but you probably already know that/don't care - I'm fairly confident you just wanted a space to rant.

I was simply pointing out that your argument that you should 'get away from the wealth-poverty argument' is actually retarded.

My plan to tax people ten fold and pay off the national debt in 3 years would be a great one if we could 'get away from the wealth-poverty argument'.

[Houdini Logic]

Do more what, shagging, drinking and pornography??? There's a big section of society tht is relatively healthy and unwilling to work, make them do more!!

Wish I could find the interview I was looking for, though that quotes gives the same indications. I remember Cameron saying that if local services are going to shut and buildings lie empty then it's up to local people to get active and start running them. It was exactly what JTH was(nt) looking for.

[Dr The Singh]

Wish I could find the interview I was looking for, though that quotes gives the same indications. I remember Cameron saying that if local services are going to shut and buildings lie empty then it's up to local people to get active and start running them. It was exactly what JTH was(nt) looking for.

He is living in a dream world, without money nobody except a few doo gooders and people with certain agenda's are gonna open shit!! People are getting raped left right and centre, struggling to afford to pay for Sky TV, as if there gonna in there free time goign to serve books or soup to the needy.