Cameron's Big Society

[Bob Weasel Fox]

They gave an example of the big society, if something in your area breaks down or fails, go and repair it yourself, was the jist of it.

Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, now where do I buy a Sodium Bulb for that street light down the road???

This maybe stating the obvious (something im good at!!!) but i think there are 3 classes in England now, the old working class has been replaced by "Benefit Class", the old middle class is effectively the hard working but getting squeezed at every angle class and then theres the bloody rich. The Tories just favour the rich

[breadandcheese]

What does Cameron know about 'empowering local communities' and engaging with charities/voluntary services? He's your typical Tory millionaire whose idea of real life is shaped by policy makers in Whitehall. Cameron is nothing but a PR man with little substance. This Big Society is a cover for cuts, despite what Cameron says.

As for the deficit, weren't the Tories supporting New Labour plans up until the recession? Didn't Osborne say how much he admired Ireland's booming economy prior to the crisis? I don't know how the Tories can lecture New Labour on the economy.

In essence, the Tories couldn't give a shit about 'society' - they've proved that with the most savage spending cuts in the most deprived areas of the country. Plus, they had a whale of a time destroying communities in the 80s.

At the moment, government spending has consistently risen over the past few months. Granted, it is in nominal terms, but it's still a rise.

Fact is, whoever was in government would be having to take the same kind of medicine to the public finances. There seems to be a remarkable PR/marketing battle going on. The Tories are presenting themselves as big cutters (as they think this appeals to voters under an image of fiscal responsibility). Meanwhile, Labour are trying to present themselves as a party that would cut very little (as they think this will appeal to voters under an image of helping). Both parties are then reinforcing each others PR image by levelling accusations at each other which serves to promote each others image.

The truth is, whether Labour or Tories in power, the medicine would have to be the same to get the public finances under control. At the height of the boom, when the UK Treasury was receiving the highest ever tax receipts, Gordon Brown was running a deficit, spending more than he was receiving. With the recession, tax receipts have fallen away heavily, so we have no choice but to reorganise and cut government expenditure inline with our tax base.

The question will go up as to whether we should tax more. Personally, I believe we are already taxing people enough. Someone in the 40% income tax tax bracket pays income tax at 40%, 11% National Insurance, VAT of 20%, council tax at their local rate (equating to 3-6% of their wage depending on their council). If you assume a person spends half their income a year on VATable goods, they will have an overall tax rate of around 65%. So out of their wage, they get to keep 35% of their earnings. Granted, this is a very crude analysis as it doesn't take account of the services they receive from public services (use of roads, healthcare, state education, defence of the nation, police, etc), but it gives an idea. I'd really like it if the national audit office could put out figures showing the monetary value of public services so that you could really work out a true figure of your marginal tax rate, basing it on the services you receive and the taxes you pay.

[accessory]

The debate also needs to focus on the Vodafones/Arcadias and others in the corporate sector who operate tax avoidance schemes which save them billions a year.

Meanwhile, on estates up and down the land, childminders or cleaners earning a fiver or tenner in hand to top up their meagre benefit cheques get grassed up by snoopers and have the book thrown at them.

[Christoph]

In theory the thought of increased localism, etc all seems good and optomistic. But this is Britain we live in. Optomism should be met by a slap round the face with a wet fish.

[accessory]

Until and unless the government loosens the spending restrictions on local authorities, any concept of "localism" is dead in the water.

[davieG]

Until and unless the government loosens the spending restrictions on local authorities, any concept of "localism" is dead in the water.

It also needs to loosen the control that both Central and Local government have on every aspect of our lives.

Would they wish for just anyone to turn up to help out at all the various institutions without training or vetting?

[accessory]

As I said on another thread, risk management plays an ever-increasing role in the activities of public bodies.

No wonder their offices have more fear, caution and negativity than a Rob Kelly team talk!

[luckyalex13]

[\quote]Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, now where do I buy a Sodium Bulb for that street light down the road???

dunno but could use a candle from ikea?

[Houdini Logic]

Looks like the Tories have a cunning plan to increase the number of volunteers...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12476342

[Rob1742]

I think his intentions of a "big society" are good.

Making it happen is the issue.

People do not take enough responsibility either for themselves, or as a community.

As an example, we pay taxes to get graffiti cleaned up, yet if it was the responsibility of the neighbourhood, we could either decide to live in a graffiti ridden area, help clean it up, or find out who has done it and make them stop it. Graffiti, vandalism happens in every community, and only in the extreme circumstances would we be unable to deal with it as a community.

Everyone knows who the trouble makers are, but nothing is done about it, as the council come along, with our money in their pocket and clean it up only for it to happen again.

We are not taking responsibility ourselves and the problem is, as long as we continue to just send over huge amounts of tax to the government and not realise what it is used for, we will always be in our current situation.

If we were to get full pay without taxes, then actually hand over money in cash for benefit scroungers, vandalism etc, then we would all think differently and start to realise that things were wrong and try ourselves to put them right.

I am not blaming any government, I am saying that as it stands we are not in control as individuals and communities, and we really should try to be. It would give us all more of a sense of worth, help with a community spirit and cut down on taxes.

Cameron has done this without doubt because the pot is empty, and he is having to put a different spin on it. But the actual idea is great and it is where we need to be.

If we could make this happen, expect local criminality to decrease, costs come down, a better community spirit would be adopted, and people would think twice about littering the streets etc. He is trying to adopt it because it is clear that crime, vandalism etc will surely be on the rise over the next ten years, as cost cutting takes place, and so if he can replace this with the big society then we all win.

No point blaming anyone for the mess we are in, we are in it, get your head around it and try and think how we can best reduce the issues that are going to be on the increase.

[davieG]

You example of graffiti is a good example of how difficult it will be.

You can't just wash graffiti off with soap and water it requires chemicals or expensive machinery in most cases making it extremely difficult if not impossible to do without significant support from the councils, those same councils that are now cutting jobs.

As for apprehending, dealing with and stopping the vandalism well that's practically a non-starter. Do you think they will take any notice of the average person in the street when they currently stick two fingers up to the authorities knowing full well that the laws have little or no impact on them.

It's a nice idea but the whole thing is fraught with difficulties with volunteers doing stuff beyond what they currently do.

[Zingari]

It's the best idea the tories have come up with since John Major's flagship campaign " Cones Hotline"

[Webbo]

Perhaps you'd like to borrow my red tinted lenses, Jon. I clearly stated that at the height of the crisis the debt was reported to be £900 billion.

It's not me who's claiming that figure. I only make reference to the report to show that Webbo's £50 billion is way off the mark.

It said £20-50 billion in your own link.

[Houdini Logic]

It's the best idea the tories have come up with since John Major's flagship campaign " Cones Hotline"

I thought you were taking the piss, can't believe this actually happened

Think Rick Wakeman sums it up -

"I've spotted some cones."

"How many?"

"About four and a half million on the M6, doing absolutely nothing."

"Thank you for telling us."

[Bellend Sebastian]

It said £20-50 billion in your own link.

I'm struggling to cover it either way.

I might have to ask my mum to help me out

[Webbo]

I'm struggling to cover it either way.

I might have to ask my mum to help me out

If you can't manage I could chip in a fiver.

[Zingari]

I thought you were taking the piss, can't believe this actually happened

Think Rick Wakeman sums it up -

"I've spotted some cones."

"How many?"

"About four and a half million on the M6, doing absolutely nothing."

"Thank you for telling us."

yes there really was a "cones hotline", it was an early 90's John Major initiative

The service did inspire the term cone syndrome, to describe a piece of legislation made by a government that seems to serve no real purpose ( supposedly)

pranksters often used to call up and ask for " a 99 with raspberry sauce, please "

not me though , i thought it was a great idea