Secular Humanism

[Rincewind]

Prophets may not have been fiction buit 700 year men burning bushes were there to either frighten people into doing the right thing or entertain.

I wouldnt go out preaching shoving my views where they are probably not wanteed.

I still say they were annoying. It was all this repent your sins sayeth the Lord.

Its the same thing day after day after day after day after day. after day after day after day after day after day after day. after day after day

[Guest MattP]

Went to the City Centre today. There were some of the God Squad there. Jesus is the Son of God and he will save you etc.

I walked by and told them to get a life. They are so annoying

Do you do the same to the Islamic stand on Saturday's as well?

[Vacamion]

You do realise the prophets worshiped in all the major religions actually existed right? The holy books tell of their stories, experiences and their interpretations. How do you know what is written in those books are fictional tales? Your presuming.

Like it or not religion has been humanities glue for all time, it has provided the basis for all of our laws and customs, it is more engrained into us then you might think. All atheists would do is replace one god with another and follow the exact same rules. But everybody has choice, i come from a religious family, yet nothing was ever forced into me, i was allowed to make my own choices and to interpret things my own way.

As long as the questions regarding our reasons for sentient existence, and what lies beyond after we pass, the existence of the divine can never be discounted.

Disagree.

Not one shred of verifiable evidence of a large Jewish population in Egypt used as slaves. Not one. Nothing in Archeology or history or any other verifiable science.

Not one written record in Egypt, the most literate country of its day, to mention Moses the miracle making troublemaker leading his people away, whilst killing the Pharaoh's son and every 1st born in the land. You'd think they might have put some hieroglyphs together about that, wouldn't you?

So the only "evidence" is in these holy books. None written contemporaneously, many of them containing contradictions. All claiming to be the inerrant word of the Creator (only one of them can be, or maybe none!).

That which can be asserted without evidence should just as eaily be dismissed.

And as for Atheists who don't shut up about it. - it is the religious who evangelise, exclude unbelievers from high office in some countries, kill apostates in others, etc, etc...

[Zingari]

Prophets may not have been fiction buit 700 year men burning bushes were there to either frighten people into doing the right thing or entertain.

I wouldnt go out preaching shoving my views where they are probably not wanteed.

I still say they were annoying. It was all this repent your sins sayeth the Lord.

Its the same thing day after day after day after day after day. after day after day after day after day after day after day. after day after day

stop trying to push that book of shite poems and stories at us at every opportunity then

[The Guvnor]

Ahh yes "The Gospel According to Richard Dawkins", the poster boy of atheism who splitters, spluffs, and flutters about aimlessly when somebody dares suggest to him that he himself might be wrong, and not those who believe in divine power. The man who desperately attempts to belittle those with faith by preaching to anybody that will listen that there is no evidence whatsoever that "god" exists, but fails to realise that there isn't a bit of concrete evidence to suggest that a divine force doesn't exist either.

In my experience the people that are the loudest, most blinkered, and aggressive when it comes to opinions on religion are atheists, and not those with faith in a spiritual force. I've also noticed that many atheists like to believe in an imaginary war between science and organised religion, as an engineer myself would it surprise them that a surprisingly high percentage of scientists and engineers hold deep rooted religious beliefs? In essence, so far, the more questions science answers, a greater number of questions arise.

Now i am not a particularly religious person, but the popular atheism = cool & progressive, religion = uncool & backward position many take does wind me up. There are arguments for both, but for either side to dismiss the other is wrong in my opinion.

I can perfectly understand people clinging on to religion in the belief they will be reunited with loved ones in some sort of afterlife it's perfectly natural,after all we are on this planet for such a miniscule time.I am perfectly comfortable that when I die i'm gone, final the end and with the thought that I don't have a 'God' to look after me.

Science has progressed incredibly over the past decades and I believe science=truth. Hundreds of years ago it was thought the earth was flat and if you went too far you would fall off the end guess what#

I was, i have to say gutted when I found out tooth fairies and father xmas didn't exist.

Link to Paxman and R Dawkins interview

[Rincewind]

Do you do the same to the Islamic stand on Saturday's as well?

Good question. After a couple of pints and thinking time I may be in a position to answer. Muslims preach once a week on Saturdays? no problem Muslims preaching on the clock tower every day would be annoying like the Jesus Army. and God Squad. But I would expect there would be stronger voices than mine protesting. The reasons would also be a lot different to mine. I am not biassed to any religion. I find them all annoying. The protesters I mentioned above would object to the muslims speech being made in this country 'A christian country'

And I would like to add to the above post that Human Beings as far as I know are the only creatures on this planet that know they are going to die. In prehistoric times this would worry,and frighton thje tribesfolk. So to give a reason for existing the High priests told them that if they obeyed certain laws they would move on to another life. Simple and obvious if you think about it. I have never seen a dog on its knees paws clenched eyes closed.. Some may say animals have instinct about dying and prepare for it. Yes elephants do travel miles to get to a area to die. But that is is just what it is instinct passed down through natual selection through their genes. They just die then are eaten by worms. I accept that will happen to me.

i am not pushing my book i am promoting it.

[The Doctor]

Went to the City Centre today. There were some of the God Squad there. Jesus is the Son of God and he will save you etc.

I walked by and told them to get a life. They are so annoying

While I agree they are annoying and I don't like getting bothered by them while I'm out and about, telling them to get a life is a bit unnecessary isn't it?

Personally I just ignore them and walk right on past, unless they address me personally, in which case I tell them I'm not remotely interested.

Anyway, this secular humanism thing sounds interesting but I'm more interested in Buddhism personally.

[Rincewind]

While I agree they are annoying and I don't like getting bothered by them while I'm out and about, telling them to get a life is a bit unnecessary isn't it?

Personally I just ignore them and walk right on past, unless they address me personally, in which case I tell them I'm not remotely interested.

Anyway, this secular humanism thing sounds interesting but I'm more interested in Buddhism personally.

Maybe I was in a bad mood. I normally just yawn

[Guest MattP]

Good question. After a couple of pints and thinking time I may be in a position to answer. Muslims preach once a week on Saturdays? no problem Muslims preaching on the clock tower every day would be annoying like the Jesus Army. and God Squad. But I would expect there would be stronger voices than mine protesting. The reasons would also be a lot different to mine. I am not biassed to any religion. I find them all annoying. The protesters I mentioned above would object to the muslims speech being made in this country 'A christian country'

And I would like to add to the above post that Human Beings as far as I know are the only creatures on this planet that know they are going to die. In prehistoric times this would worry,and frighton thje tribesfolk. So to give a reason for existing the High priests told them that if they obeyed certain laws they would move on to another life. Simple and obvious if you think about it. I have never seen a dog on its knees paws clenched eyes closed.. Some may say animals have instinct about dying and prepare for it. Yes elephants do travel miles to get to a area to die. But that is is just what it is instinct passed down through natual selection through their genes. They just die then are eaten by worms. I accept that will happen to me.

i am not pushing my book i am promoting it.

Good to hear.

Just to clarify, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, Jedi.......I have no problem flashing my arse at any of you in town.

[foxsake]

What gets me is that some people believe in things that happened over 5000 years ago because they are in some religious text yet if a bloke was to run down the street wearing just a blanket shouting I am Jesus and I have returned' they would say that he was a nutter and should be locked up.

Just imagine the Mary and Joseph story in modern times.

Mary to Joseph. Joe I am pregnant.

Joseph WHAT How we haven't slept together for six months. Whose is it.

Mary: Well funny you should ask me that darling. The other week when you were at the football match, this angel came down and said I would be visited by God who would impregnate me and the child would grow up to be the savior of the world.

Joseph: Jesus Christ. Well Did he?

Mary: Yes and it was the best sexual experience I have ever had.

Joseph: Oh well if its the son of God and the savior of all mankind I suppose its OK. But whos name are you going to put down as father on the birth cetificate?

"5000 years ago"? Good grasp of the facts. What gets me is that people have an utterly woeful understanding of the beliefs that they see fit to bash or eschew. Still, I believe in your right to do so; shocking as your treatment of the matter is.

[Rincewind]

By 5000 I meant all the Old Testament stuff . 40% of Americans still beieve the Earth was created after dinoseaurs became extinct. the fact that a bush cannot talk does not matter to some people because it is in the Bible so in their mind it must be true

I believe I have an understanding of what can happen and what cannot happen.

[Zingari]

it seems that Brian died in vain then

I wouldn't call him vain just a bit of an attention seeker maybe?

[Zingari]

it seems that Brian died in vain then

I wouldn't call him vain just a bit of an attention seeker maybe?

i didn't post this , how did it get there ?

[Rincewind]

i didn't post this , how did it get there ?

PIMPS Post Inserters for Mods Police Service

[foxsake]

By 5000 I meant all the Old Testament stuff . 40% of Americans still beieve the Earth was created after dinoseaurs became extinct. the fact that a bush cannot talk does not matter to some people because it is in the Bible so in their mind it must be true

I believe I have an understanding of what can happen and what cannot happen.

The bush didn't talk. Whether one believes it or not - the text says that some brambles 'burnt' but the idea is that Moses saw an angel ('messenger') within this from which the voice of God spoke to him.

Not sure about the percentages you quote but it's true that a lot of Americans are religious due to the nature of their culture and not through any reasoned philosophy. Couple that with a disenfranchised and ill-educated percentage of the populous and you have a ready-made stereotype for everyone else to heehaw at.

Our understanding of things evolves, science is as much a shifting milieu as any discipline (one of the advantages of science I would add): up until the middle of the twentieth century (roughly) the prevalent model of the universe was that it had always existed in a steady state - practically everyone in the scientific community believed this. This was in direct contrast to the biblical view that the universe had come into existence at a discrete point. The Big Bang theory now shows that the universe is stretching out from a single starting point - i.e. it had a beginning. This is an example of where science and belief are in agreement and hopefully shows that we can't be too dogmatic about "what can happen and what cannot happen".

I concede your point about people believing in all sorts of things with no apparent justification but I think (for example) that the person of Jesus requires a bit more thought and investigation than most critics are prepared to give.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio Nightguard (and foxsake too), Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

[BoneDog]

Science has progressed incredibly over the past decades and I believe science=truth. Hundreds of years ago it was thought the earth was flat and if you went too far you would fall off the end.

Science is the search for truth yes, but science doesn't know the truth when it comes to our existence or how we first came to be here, and never will know. Every time we make a new discovery there will appear more questions than answers and that is how it will always be. In 100 years from now people will laugh at the theory of evolution and natural selection just like we chuckle at those who thought the earth was flat. Fledgling sciences such as epigenetics and other dna branches of science are already starting to expose major flaws in Radical Darwinism.

In prehistoric times this would worry and frighton the tribesfolk. So to give a reason for existing the High priests told them that if they obeyed certain laws they would move on to another life. Simple and obvious if you think about it.

I'm not sure that there is any evidence of prehistoric people being worried or frightened of death any more than alot of people are nowadays. People were just as bright as us back then, probably brighter in fact.

[Phube]

Science is the search for truth yes, but science doesn't know the truth when it comes to our existence or how we first came to be here, and never will know. Every time we make a new discovery there will appear more questions than answers and that is how it will always be. In 100 years from now people will laugh at the theory of evolution and natural selection just like we chuckle at those who thought the earth was flat. Fledgling sciences such as epigenetics and other dna branches of science are already starting to expose major flaws in Radical Dawinism.

But if disproved in the future, it will be done using scientific method, peer review etc. Not because some ignorant group of men wrote about it many thousands of years ago!

[Rincewind]

Yes there were some flaws in Darwins discoveries but Darwin himself never said it was perfect. Certain species were not in the same family group as first thought and other were in groups when thought seperate. This is the advance in science not disproving evolution and natual selection. or any the discoveries made in science. Knowledge of the universe and its origins will advance but in scientific terms. It has already been proven how it all began.

There is game called Chinese whisper. One person whispers a phase to another and it is repeated around the room. The last person reveals what he heard. More times than not it is completely different to the original statement. Now think of a story that is passed down over hundreds or thousands of years would that not change and be exagerated?

Many of todays stories originate from myths and legends. The Greeks had stories of Gods that lived in the sky and helped the heroes fight the bad guys Without polution the consellations would have been seen in a clear sky in times before the Greeks. Plus they would be a lot younger in existance. So without the knowledge that we have about the stars and weather being scientifically proved to less stable it seems perfect reasonable to assume that the people would subseptable to suggestion.

There was no TV Internet etc around for them to google for answers.

[Thracian]

I see no reason to dismiss any possibilities. Science discovers extraordinary things every day. Who knows what amazing and unlikely truths there are to be learned? And whether some of those truths might be hidden among the writings of ancient philosophers and connected to the spiritual rather than the physical?.