Plans for police privatisation (other privatisation)

[Zingari]

Das Kapital is Mein Kampf for lefties

i don't know if it is really as i've not been be arsed to read either

[Daggers]

There are a lot of "coulds" and "possibles" in that article. I don't doubt that there is some privatisation in the police service but investigating crime? Please?

The Guardian is just the Daily Mail for lefties, massaging their prejudices and feeding their paranoia.

So, I'll try once more - where are the factual errors in the article I posted?

Considering there is no reference to privatisation in the police service in the whole piece makes me think that you haven't even read it and are simply talking out of your arse. And as for it being the polar balance to the Mail, that is simply fvcking ridiculous. The Telegraph would have been a reasonable comment but the Mail? Ha!

[Saxondale]

Private sector constables are never going to work, but that doesn't seem to be the idea.

Outsourcing non-frontline tasks is a logical step toward improving value for money.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

There are lots of the things our police forces are good at. There also plenty of things which they have failed completely to modernise for decades. We have wasted countless millions on IT, HR, Administration, paperwork and so that could be far better managed by one or two providers. Have to say I don't see why the likes of G4S are top of the list, I would have thought someone like CapGemini (who I just spent quite a lot of time with) or similar would be better placed. For me this is all about focus on core competencies and the improvement of them. If we expect our 40 odd separate forces to all be good at running themselves as well as delivering on the priorities of the public we are deluded. Few major successful companies run all of their operations any more, because it is so difficult to be really good at lots of things.

Suspect the scope of this exercise will be dramatically less than the list the Guardian has published; 1) that is the way outsourcing processes work - you start assuming everything can be outsourced, then work back from there to a realistic and manageable scope. 2) This will inevitably be pretty controversial, because people find it hard I think to understand just how little of the work done by the police is actually frontline policing. Think of the as somewhere between the sales & operations team of a company, with a wide array of support activities from facilities, HR, finance & accounting, procurement & IT, all of which are needed, but none of which the Police forces are now or will ever be very good at.

Now you could argue that the government has the scale to deliver its own shared services environment, and this would certainly be true in some areas, but lets be honest, the public sector has failed time and time again to do anything about it, and as such we still spend way more on people supporting frontline services than we do on the actual delivery of those services. So for me, this is a necessary process, and not just in the police force or the NHS but all across the public sector. If it takes private sector expertise to deliver it then I am in support of that.

Excellent post, well put, and spot on.

[Zingari]

This is a genuine question

Is there any real evidence that there has been any savings and/or improvements in services that have come about by privatisation or outsourcing etc.

Is there any real evidence that we are getting more value for our money ?

This includes gas, electricity, railways, telecoms, water .etc ?

edit ; is there any evidence to the contrary that we are getting worse services ?

no complex answers please just some easy to digest evidence

Is it all just political dogma to make any claims either way ?

I know I’m a moaning old git but I can’t actually see any improvements or financial benefits anywhere

[dave the caveman]

If BT and British Gas can be tai reckon most privatised services are cheaper now than they would be if they were public. I imagine public prices would be similar to current bt, British Gas prices

[Webbo]

So, I'll try once more - where are the factual errors in the article I posted?

I'll admit I was talking about the original post, I hadn't read your article but having read it now I can't see the problem.

[AoWW]

Just because I'm considerably more important than the rest of you now doesn't mean I've lost my humility.

Oi, where's my cup of coffee - I've been waiting hours.

[Zingari]

i'm not very good at reading legal stuff and i could be completely wrong ( not for the first time or last ) , but this doesn't sound like it's just admin and boring stuff that's being auctioned off

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2012/mar/02/contract-note-bidders-police-services

[Captain...]

If BT and British Gas can be tai reckon most privatised services are cheaper now than they would be if they were public. I imagine public prices would be similar to current bt, British Gas prices

And @Zingari

If the energy companies were still public we wouldn't have the constant cold calling and door knocking trying to get us to change provider despite it being the same energy we use, that is one way we would be better off.

Energy companies make huge amounts of profit, see this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/feb/23/british-gas-profits-energy-market-reform-centrica british gas, only one of many, made 2.4bn now if it was a public company that money would go back in to the government. Also imaginie how much more profit could be made if they didn't have to advertise. Now since it has been privatised there has been a shortfall in the goverment income of the money that was being made by the public energy sector, which we will have had to meet in terms of higher taxes as well as paying energy prices which generate 2.4bn profit, not mention we also now need government funded regulatory bodies like OFGEM to monitor everything.

Now I understand the theory and the argument that privatised companies operating in the free market are more likely to be efficient and at the end of the day will provide energy with a higher service level at a lower price, but I see no evidence of it in this case and by the huge profits of the energy companies. Especially if they collude to fix prices. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/14/ofgem-act-energy-companies

[Zingari]

Thanks CF

i'll read that stuff but it'll take me some time

[Webbo]

Oi, where's my cup of coffee - I've been waiting hours.

I can't get my head through the door to bring it in.

[AoWW]

I can't get my head through the door to bring it in.

Well just pass it through then.

[Zingari]

can't you put all the tea making duties out to private contractors ?

surely this would release webbo for more front line stuff like tackling real offenders

edit;

i'll start the bidding at 50p per cup including a biscuit

[Zingari]

Well just pass it through then.

you want him to pass the tea through first ?

blimey i didn't realise you got up to all that sort of kinky stuff in the mods room !

[davieG]

can't you put all the tea making duties out to private contractors ?

surely this would release webbo for more front line stuff like tackling real offenders

edit;

i'll start the bidding at 50p per cup including a biscuit

Sorry mine's already been contracted out to MrsG for certain favours, it was a sub-clause in our marriage cntract and covers all tea-making events.

[Webbo]

can't you put all the tea making duties out to private contractors ?

surely this would release webbo for more front line stuff like tackling real offenders

edit;

i'll start the bidding at 50p per cup including a biscuit

Fruit shortcake?

[Daggers]

i'm not very good at reading legal stuff and i could be completely wrong ( not for the first time or last ) , but this doesn't sound like it's just admin and boring stuff that's being auctioned off

http://www.guardian....police-services

Far from it - from the way it reads it leaves me struggling to work out exactly what is left for police officers to do?

[Daggers]

Water

Has privatisation fixed the leaks or organised a constant flow of high quality water to all homes? No.

Has privatisation led to competition keeping down prices thanks to market competition? No.

Has privatisation benefited the weakest within society? Absolutely not.

Rail

Has privatisation improved the quality of the infrastructure? No.

Has privatisation improved the quality of service? No.

Has privatisation improved safety? Fvck off.

Has privatisation improved the cost? Sorry...I'm too busy laughing at this one to just type 'no'.

Energy

Has privatisation driven down prices due to market competition? Absolutely not.

We have all ended up paying more for the services directly to the suppliers PLUS indirectly in the form of ongoing government grants. Privatisation has been an unmitigated failure. You can broaden this out and look and the dramatic rise in the cost the the individual for care-home provision coupled with the nosedive in care-home standards and quality of staff or any number of aspects of health or social provision which has been dicked over by Thatcherite/New Labour/Thatcherlite thinking.

Even if the level of service had been improved, which it hasn't, that still doesn't justify the excessive profits and bonuses going to private executives instead of being directed back into the exchequer. It, like Osborne's & Lansley's brains, doesn't work.

[I am Rod Hull]

can't you put all the tea making duties out to private contractors ?

surely this would release webbo for more front line stuff like tackling real offenders

edit;

i'll start the bidding at 50p per cup including a biscuit

For 10p per month (for the first 6 months, 15p then after) I offer-

Kettle insurance: with a promise to be with you within 6 hours for repairs (all our technicians carry a 2 gallon flask)

A free tea strainer: in case of an emergency teabag ruptures.

A loan mug option: for any personal vessel breakages (10p extra per annum)

All new members will be given the choice of 3 free gifts:

1. A knitted tea cosy.

2. Delia Smiths book, how to make a cuppa.

3. a free Parker pen.

[Webbo]

Water

Has privatisation fixed the leaks or organised a constant flow of high quality water to all homes? No.

Has privatisation led to competition keeping down prices thanks to market competition? No.

Has privatisation benefited the weakest within society? Absolutely not.

Rail

Has privatisation improved the quality of the infrastructure? No.

Has privatisation improved the quality of service? No.

Has privatisation improved safety? Fvck off.

Has privatisation improved the cost? Sorry...I'm too busy laughing at this one to just type 'no'.

Energy

Has privatisation driven down prices due to market competition? Absolutely not.

We have all ended up paying more for the services directly to the suppliers PLUS indirectly in the form of ongoing government grants. Privatisation has been an unmitigated failure. You can broaden this out and look and the dramatic rise in the cost the the individual for care-home provision coupled with the nosedive in care-home standards and quality of staff or any number of aspects of health or social provision which has been dicked over by Thatcherite/New Labour/Thatcherlite thinking.

Even if the level of service had been improved, which it hasn't, that still doesn't justify the excessive profits and bonuses going to private executives instead of being directed back into the exchequer. It, like Osborne's & Lansley's brains, doesn't work.

Just because it hasn't been reported in the Guardian doesn't mean there hasn't been massive investment in water and rail infrastructure. Standards have been raised by legislation and that has cost money to enforce,

As for energy prices have gone up around the world due to higher demand from developing nations, a lessening of resources and all this carbon reduction crap.

I wouldn't mind if we'd got rid of efficient, world beating services but British Rail? Really?

[dave the caveman]

Just because it hasn't been reported in the Guardian doesn't mean there hasn't been massive investment in water and rail infrastructure. Standards have been raised by legislation and that has cost money to enforce,

As for energy prices have gone up around the world due to higher demand from developing nations, a lessening of resources and all this carbon reduction crap.

I wouldn't mind if we'd got rid of efficient, world beating services but British Rail? Really?

This.

The respective regulators inisist on huge programmes of investment on energy and utilities infrastructure. We have some of the very best infrastructure and the most challenging required standards in the world. How anyone with absolutely no knowledge or experience of the subject thinks they are qualified to complain about it I really don't know. It is typical Guardian, left wing thinking: complain about everything, understand nothing.

[Daggers]

I love how your right-wing bigot always assumes that someone taking a stance they don't agree with or can't understand means a) he understands nothing about the subject b) reads the Guardian and c) is left-wing.

It is typical standard limited Tory non-thinking: blame Labour, ignore the truth, make stuff up.

It was funny when these tossers were in opposition but they really are a frightening bunch when they get their incompetent, corrupt hands on the wheels of power.

We have some of the best infrastructure in the world? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...

[Webbo]

I love how your right-wing bigot always assumes that someone taking a stance they don't agree with or can't understand means a) he understands nothing about the subject b) reads the Guardian and c) is left-wing.

It is typical standard limited Tory non-thinking: blame Labour, ignore the truth, make stuff up.

It was funny when these tossers were in opposition but they really are a frightening bunch when they get their incompetent, corrupt hands on the wheels of power.

We have some of the best infrastructure in the world? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...

I don't feel you've taken my constructive criticism in the spirit it was intended.

[dave the caveman]

We have some of the best infrastructure in the world? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...

Perfect opportunity here for you to try and show that you have even the slightest clue what you are talking about, so go ahead and disprove it. You can't, because it's correct and as per usual, you're wrong.

You know nothing at all about this subject. Why do you even bother trying to sound like you do? It just makes you look like a fool.