Lifers

[Fox92]

See my example above scousefox.

I agree with your posts in this thread.

And I bet they get more care than elderley in this Country.

Prison shouldn't be 'enjoyable' and 'fun'. Something is wrong, but we've all known it for ages.

[MikeyT]

Didn't know about this so have stuck it on, on 4OD. Very interesting watch. Couldn't believe when that guy said he was beating the other guy to death for 1.5 hours. Doesn't bare thinking about.

[AdamN]

I bet the homeless guy would look at that lifestyle and find it quite desirable.*

I just personally think we should look after decent, honest members of the community a lot better than people who have killed.**

* If I was homeless I'd find anything that involved a roof desirable.

** And yes, I agree entirely. Although you can bet your arse that the same people who foam at the mouth when people mention prisoners are the same people who'll be screaming and shouting when these 'no good homeless benefit scroungers' get the help they need.

[Raj]

I donlt think anyone is saying it's preferable, just that they don't agree they should have access to the things they do have.

NAIL.ON.HEAD.

[Captain...]

Just as an example, take a homeless man, perhaps he lost his job wife etc and finds himself on the streets and sleeping rough.

No money, no roof over his head, no food and no chances to improve his life, he's not broken the law at all but is in a bad way.

And then take the guy on the program last night who said he had a feeling he was going to kill someone and it just happened to be a girl he sat next to in a kebab house.

He's now having three meals a day, medical care, use of sports facilities, a playstation and studying for a degree in applied maths.

I bet the homeless guy would look at that lifestyle and find it quite desirable.

I just personally think we should look after decent, honest members of the community a lot better than people who have killed.

But that is a separate issue compared to the majority, yes we should look after the decent honest members of society (try mentioning that to the Government) and the fact we don't is irrelevant to how we treat prisoners.

Prisoners often need to be educated in the error of their ways and in how to function in the real world, so they have an education program.

They need physical activity, the kind they have is basically a wide open space and a bit of equipment, there are free fields and equipment all around the country, maybe their should be more, but I'm guessing people don't use them to make it worth it.

Being deprived of TV and video games is one thing, but would you deprive them of books and other forms of entertainment.

Basically, everyone needs physical and mental stimulus if we don't get that then we start to breakdown, physically and mentally, if you allow that to happen to people who are already criminals then you are in danger of losing them from society for good.

[Captain...]

I donlt think anyone is saying it's preferable, just that they don't agree they should have access to the things they do have.

NAIL.ON.HEAD.

This is exactly the attitude that I can't stand, it is basically jealousy, you are jealous because someone else has something you don't, or they didn't have to work for it as hard as you. It is the same attitude I see on every thread about benefits and it is this same attitude that represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

They get to use a bit of Gym equipment for free, you have to pay £60 a month for your gym, they get access to a playstation as a reward for good behaviour you had to pay £300 plus games!!!

They have lost their right to their liberty, to their privacy, to take part in society, to get a meaningful job and earn money to pay for the luxuries, to be able take a walk in the sunshine, to see their family whenever they want...but they sometimes have free access to a playstation, the lucky cvnts.

[simmo1977]

They have lost their right to their liberty, to their privacy, to take part in society, to get a meaningful job and earn money to pay for the luxuries, to be able take a walk in the sunshine, to see their family whenever they want...but they sometimes have free access to a playstation, the lucky cvnts.

And so have the innocent people they have murdered.

[Guest MattP]

This is exactly the attitude that I can't stand, it is basically jealousy, you are jealous because someone else has something you don't, or they didn't have to work for it as hard as you. It is the same attitude I see on every thread about benefits and it is this same attitude that represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

They get to use a bit of Gym equipment for free, you have to pay £60 a month for your gym, they get access to a playstation as a reward for good behaviour you had to pay £300 plus games!!!

They have lost their right to their liberty, to their privacy, to take part in society, to get a meaningful job and earn money to pay for the luxuries, to be able take a walk in the sunshine, to see their family whenever they want...but they sometimes have free access to a playstation, the lucky cvnts.

Sorry but that's just absolute nonsense. (and what on earth do they have that I dont?)

It's actually quite simple, I don't believe someone who has delibrately taken the life of another should be given perks for enjoyment purposes. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

So they lose their liberty, the right to see family, bless them eh? Bless the guys cotton socks for stomping on someones head for an hour and a half leaving him so his family couldn't even recognise him dead. Bless the Stokie who decided to kill a defenceless old man because he was "bored and skint".

Have a guess who else in that scenario not only doesnt get to a see a member of their family whenever they want, but when they do it's only when they go to the local graveyard, and the family member is a corpse 6 foot underground,

The lucky cnuts.

[davieG]

But that is a separate issue compared to the majority, yes we should look after the decent honest members of society (try mentioning that to the Government) and the fact we don't is irrelevant to how we treat prisoners.

Prisoners often need to be educated in the error of their ways and in how to function in the real world, so they have an education program.

They need physical activity, the kind they have is basically a wide open space and a bit of equipment, there are free fields and equipment all around the country, maybe their should be more, but I'm guessing people don't use them to make it worth it.

Being deprived of TV and video games is one thing, but would you deprive them of books and other forms of entertainment.

Basically, everyone needs physical and mental stimulus if we don't get that then we start to breakdown, physically and mentally, if you allow that to happen to people who are already criminals then you are in danger of losing them from society for good.

Not from what I saw even back in the late 60s as i said the best facilities I've ever seen with a full size basketball court, fitness room etc. The facilities at that time were better than the ones I'd experienced at my recently left newly built school.

The money spent on these facilities is money that could be spent improving facilities for all.

Not that I think they shouldn't have them but it should be after the majority of the population have the same access to the same facilities.

When I had a young family I struggled to pay for my kids to access what few facilities that were available I'm sure things are no different now if not worse.

[Guest MattP]

It's a huge myth a lot of people like to spread that prisons these days look like insides of something from the Shawshank Redemption, as you can see by many things, it simply isn't the case anymore.

[davieG]

This is exactly the attitude that I can't stand, it is basically jealousy, you are jealous because someone else has something you don't, or they didn't have to work for it as hard as you. It is the same attitude I see on every thread about benefits and it is this same attitude that represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

They get to use a bit of Gym equipment for free, you have to pay £60 a month for your gym, they get access to a playstation as a reward for good behaviour you had to pay £300 plus games!!!

They have lost their right to their liberty, to their privacy, to take part in society, to get a meaningful job and earn money to pay for the luxuries, to be able take a walk in the sunshine, to see their family whenever they want...but they sometimes have free access to a playstation, the lucky cvnts.

Well with all the current surveillance and planned online snooping our privacy is being eroding daily. It's no use having the liberty for all this things you list if you can't afford them and jobs are vanishing daily.

It's not about jealousy it's about balance and the scales seemed to have tipped too far in their favour.

[Reynard Bleu]

I suspect they are a lot easier to manage if they get their little pleasures. Locking them up on a hard routine for decades may satisfy our thirst for revenge/justice but I can imagine it may create a different atmosphere in the prison altogether, perhaps something a little more lively. We could always hang them I guess?

[Captain...]

And so have the innocent people they have murdered.

Sorry but that's just absolute nonsense. (and what on earth do they have that I dont?)

It's actually quite simple, I don't believe someone who has delibrately taken the life of another should be given perks for enjoyment purposes. I don't see why that is so hard to understand.

So they lose their liberty, the right to see family, bless them eh? Bless the guys cotton socks for stomping on someones head for an hour and a half leaving him so his family couldn't even recognise him dead. Bless the Stokie who decided to kill a defenceless old man because he was "bored and skint".

Have a guess who else in that scenario not only doesnt get to a see a member of their family whenever they want, but when they do it's only when they go to the local graveyard, and the family member is a corpse 6 foot underground,

The lucky cnuts.

Not everyone in jail is a murderer.

You either have to accept that they are at some point going to be returned to society, and depriving them of any sort of physical and mental stimulus for however many years is not going to lead to a functioning member of society.

@Matt, I didn't say they had things you didn't but they get them for free and you had to pay for them, that is where your problem is.

I am not expecting anyone to feel sorry for these people, but all those things I mentioned are punishment, they are being punished for what they did, I don't think some people on here quite understand what that punishment is like. Prison is not cosy and everyone sitting around playing playstation and football in the yard until teacher calls you in for your afternoon classes.

The punishment is the loss of liberty, and it is rightly so, but that doesn't mean that prisoners should be kept in solitary confinement 24/7.

People need stimulus, whether it is a book, a game of Mario Kart, or lifting weights, without any sort of input you may as well kill them, because they will never become functioning human beings.

[Bellend Sebastian]

If my family ever get murdered I'll just buy myself a Playstation if they're that good

[Guest MattP]

Not everyone in jail is a murderer.

You either have to accept that they are at some point going to be returned to society, and depriving them of any sort of physical and mental stimulus for however many years is not going to lead to a functioning member of society.

@Matt, I didn't say they had things you didn't but they get them for free and you had to pay for them, that is where your problem is.

I am not expecting anyone to feel sorry for these people, but all those things I mentioned are punishment, they are being punished for what they did, I don't think some people on here quite understand what that punishment is like. Prison is not cosy and everyone sitting around playing playstation and football in the yard until teacher calls you in for your afternoon classes.

The punishment is the loss of liberty, and it is rightly so, but that doesn't mean that prisoners should be kept in solitary confinement 24/7.

Then why are the prisoners themselves openly saying that it is? Surely they are the best ones to judge?

[simmo1977]

One of the prisoners last night said "why would i want to get out of prison, i have 3 meals a day, a roof over my head and a tv and playstation, if i leave prison i have to worry about bills and getting a job and all sorts"

Are you seriously telling me that is how it should be?

A member of my family was murdered, It was a long time ago but the thought that he is still alive and playing games on a playstation and watching the tv sickens me to the bottom of my stomach.

As I said earlier captain shrapnel, if it happened to a member of your family you may well look at it differently.

[Captain...]

Not from what I saw even back in the late 60s as i said the best facilities I've ever seen with a full size basketball court, fitness room etc. The facilities at that time were better than the ones I'd experienced at my recently left newly built school.

The money spent on these facilities is money that could be spent improving facilities for all.

Not that I think they shouldn't have them but it should be after the majority of the population have the same access to the same facilities.

When I had a young family I struggled to pay for my kids to access what few facilities that were available I'm sure things are no different now if not worse.

Everything is new once, and they are probably still the same facilities now, the fact they were better than your school facilities probably says more about the state of education back then than the prison service.

Of course you are right, that we should all have free access to great leisure facilities but we live in a capitalist society with a government determined to cut as much spending as possible on social projects. As has previously been mentioned, this is not free access, they work and get a very low wage for it, to spend on things in the prison, they have also lost a lot of rights by virtue of the fact that they are in prison, this is not a holiday camp, but it needs to act as a microcosm of society to have any hope of reforming criminals, and that includes social activity, physical activity, education and, god forbid, fun.

[Bellend Sebastian]

You'll love this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/31/hug-a-hoodie-cameron-prison?INTCMP=SRCH

Before everyone rolls their eyes at the word 'Guardian', it's written by former Cameron speech writer* Ian Birrel.

Free Playstations and flatscreen televisions and chocolate oranges for all prisoners! Not really

*You'd have thought, having been to Eton, he could write his own speeches, the thick bastard

[Raj]

This is exactly the attitude that I can't stand, it is basically jealousy, you are jealous because someone else has something you don't, or they didn't have to work for it as hard as you. It is the same attitude I see on every thread about benefits and it is this same attitude that represents everything that is wrong with modern society.

They get to use a bit of Gym equipment for free, you have to pay £60 a month for your gym, they get access to a playstation as a reward for good behaviour you had to pay £300 plus games!!!

They have lost their right to their liberty, to their privacy, to take part in society, to get a meaningful job and earn money to pay for the luxuries, to be able take a walk in the sunshine, to see their family whenever they want...but they sometimes have free access to a playstation, the lucky cvnts.

what a load of bollox!

I dont begrudge anyone anything as long as they EARNT it or have skills that i dont.

[Guest MattP]

You'll love this.

http://www.guardian....son?INTCMP=SRCH

Before everyone rolls their eyes at the word 'Guardian', it's written by former Cameron speech writer* Ian Birrel.

Free Playstations and flatscreen televisions and chocolate oranges for all prisoners! Not really

*You'd have thought, having been to Eton, he could write his own speeches, the thick bastard

Well done for completely missing the point of the whole thread.

Read the title again.

[davieG]

Everything is new once, and they are probably still the same facilities now, the fact they were better than your school facilities probably says more about the state of education back then than the prison service.

Of course you are right, that we should all have free access to great leisure facilities but we live in a capitalist society with a government determined to cut as much spending as possible on social projects. As has previously been mentioned, this is not free access, they work and get a very low wage for it, to spend on things in the prison, they have also lost a lot of rights by virtue of the fact that they are in prison, this is not a holiday camp, but it needs to act as a microcosm of society to have any hope of reforming criminals, and that includes social activity, physical activity, education and, god forbid, fun.

Maybe it does say something about the state of education back then but considering the school and the prison were built within 2 years of each other what it says to me is that the government of the day was prepared to spend and provide better facilities for prisoners than it was on education facilities for it's children.

I reiterate it's about balance and with many schools falling apart, the recent refurbishment programme having been severely curtailed it's obviously need readdressing.

Did I say they should be free? they should be affordable and for many they are not and it's galling to see people that have committed crimes being provide with those facilities.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Well done for completely missing the point of the whole thread.

Read the title again.

So chocolate oranges for all prisoners but not those serving life sentences? I see. You're tough but fair Matthew, I like it.

Of course, no one serving a life sentence has ever been in prison previously, so of no relevance whatsoever, I am chastened and bowed

[Guest MattP]

So chocolate oranges for all prisoners but not those serving life sentences? I see. You're tough but fair Matthew, I like it.

Of course, no one serving a life sentence has ever been in prison previously, so of no relevance whatsoever, I am chastened and bowed

I completely agree, privledges you may recieve in prison should and can be directly related to the crimes you have committed.

I see no problem in denying someone who is inside for a minor car offence a morning newspaper if they want to work for it in there, I do have a problem with giving a playstation to a guy with no remorse who stabbed to death a pensioner because he was bored.

[Captain...]

Then why are the prisoners themselves openly saying that it is? Surely they are the best ones to judge?

One of the prisoners last night said "why would i want to get out of prison, i have 3 meals a day, a roof over my head and a tv and playstation, if i leave prison i have to worry about bills and getting a job and all sorts"

Are you seriously telling me that is how it should be?

A member of my family was murdered, It was a long time ago but the thought that he is still alive and playing games on a playstation and watching the tv sickens me to the bottom of my stomach.

As I said earlier captain shrapnel, if it happened to a member of your family you may well look at it differently.

This says more about our society than the prisons, there are always going to be people who will enjoy the prison environment, who will actual find comfort in the routine and regularity and even security in the daily regimented life, again this will most likely be a reflection on their lives on the outside and probably the reason why they became criminals in the first place.

Of course if you take individual cases then you can find people which don't respond in the way intended, but you cannot base a prison system around the fact that the minority actually enjoyment, and maybe DavieG is right, maybe it has gone too far, but when I look at the list on page 1 of this thread, I don't see anything I wouldn't expect, except the budgie, but their needs to be a system of reward in prisons, likewise a system of punishment. If it is a playstation or a game of football then that is what it is.

I just get so fed up with this reactionary crap, prisoners have it better, they get to play playstation while I'm working.

@Simmo, I am very sorry to hear that, and I understand you are angry, and I am not going to pretend I know how I would act if that happened to me, but I have been the victim of crime on a number of occasions, and it has not changed my view on prisons being primarily for rehabilitation and protection of society ahead of punishment.

[Leicfox]

If any one missed it you can watch it on 4OD below.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/lifers/4od