£53 a week

[Leicfox]

Benefits in Britain: separating the facts from the fiction

http://www.guardian....ain-facts-myths

Excellent article.

[RobHawk]

Benefits in Britain: separating the facts from the fiction

http://www.guardian....ain-facts-myths

Excellent article.

Some very interesting stats in there!! Worth a read

[Babylon]

Wtf does “planning to be out of work†actually mean?

Do you think unemployed people “plan†the amount of time they are out of work.

It’s an open ended unspecified amount of time which, depending on many circumstances, can last days or even years.

I could easily live on benefits for a couple of months or even years but that’s because I have most things that I need already bought and paid for. And a few quid in the bank to fall back on for emergencies.Very few percent of the unemployed are in my fortunate position I would assume.

Anyone thinking that living on unemployment benefit is a doddle should fookin well try it.

They’d be crying like stuck pigs within weeks, I’ve heard them all too often.

Unless they are getting money from another source (either legally or illegally

Errr the person I responded to said "Forever" so quite clearly they are thinking about a life on that money.

A lot of unemployed quite clearly plan for a life on benefits, whether you like it or not. I have been on it myself and it only takes a few trips to the job centre to listen in on the conversations people have to know that.

[Tempwan Yierban]

Okay - so £53 a week, but then also whatever they can make robbing and selling drugs...

Here's a fun fact for you. After my mortgage and bills are paid, I have far less than £53 a week.

I do have a little pride in myself though.

[RobHawk]

Okay - so £53 a week, but then also whatever they can make robbing and selling drugs...

Here's a fun fact for you. After my mortgage and bills are paid, I have far less than £53 a week.

I do have a little pride in myself though.

People on JSA can'y afford to buy there own house so your 1 up straight away!

[pSinatra]

Errr the person I responded to said "Forever" so quite clearly they are thinking about a life on that money.

A lot of unemployed quite clearly plan for a life on benefits, whether you like it or not. I have been on it myself and it only takes a few trips to the job centre to listen in on the conversations people have to know that.

I am the person who said 'forever'.

I would like to point out that I do have a job & I'm actually self-employed. I have more than enough work for myself, but I'm currently upping my workload so that I can take a friend on & hopefully I can give him as good as full-time work.

He is currently 'unemployed' & has been for a very long time. I'm not sure how long, but it's got to be well over a year. It is has been a terrible time for him & it's been thoroughly depressing watching his life go down the pan......quickly, through no fault of his own & nobody can say that he hasn't tried to find work.

Maybe the word forever was the wrong word to use & I should have used 'for the foreseeable'. It's true that there are those who need a cattle prod for them to seek work, but for the vast majority there simply isn't enough work available & there is little prospect of work either.

The notion that a life on benefits is a 'life choice' is not fair on those desperate for work. The fact that people are having to work all hours just to get by says more about the state of the economy than it does about people on benefits. Someone working 40+ hours a week is no better off than someone not working at all? The person working should be paid more & is worth more than that. The government have nicely deflected attention away from themselves.

[Tempwan Yierban]

People on JSA can'y afford to buy there own house so your 1 up straight away!

You might question what is the point in 'buying' a house when you can just live in one for nothing anyway.

I should point out that as I work, I am not only having to pay my own mortgage but am also, as a taxpayer, paying their housing and council tax as well.

So forgive me if I don't have much sympathy with anyone who is 'only' !!!! left with £53 a week.

[Guest MattP]

Couldn't get by on £53 a day.

[hackneyfox]

It's the landlords who receive the housing benefit not the claimant, perhaps if we stopped them abusing the system ........ but no we mustn't stop entrepeneurs from making money.

[RobHawk]

You might question what is the point in 'buying' a house when you can just live in one for nothing anyway.

I should point out that as I work, I am not only having to pay my own mortgage but am also, as a taxpayer, paying their housing and council tax as well.

So forgive me if I don't have much sympathy with anyone who is 'only' !!!! left with £53 a week.

A lot of people who "live in one for nothing" as you put it, live in the shittiest most horrible places available. They have no choice in this as many have to find somewhere where they can actually get HB to cover. It's not like you find a place and they cover the rent. There are LHA's to consider and that's even before this "bedroom tax".

You also state that you have less than £53 a week after your bills are paid. If you are on JSA that £53 a week includes paying for bills. Many on meters, which is the most expensive way of paying for gas and electric. Many struggle to have enough to heat their homes or even have hot water for a shower!! Life on JSA aint easy and if you really think it is i suggest you give it a go!

[Tempwan Yierban]

It's the landlords who receive the housing benefit not the claimant, perhaps if we stopped them abusing the system ........ but no we mustn't stop entrepeneurs from making money.

Stop landlords profiting from the system? And so stop privately owned residential properties from entering the system as properties for DSS-1 and DSS-2 tenants?

Ok. Erm.

Where are you going to put all the council tenants now then? There is already a property shortage!

[RobHawk]

It's the landlords who receive the housing benefit not the claimant, perhaps if we stopped them abusing the system ........ but no we mustn't stop entrepeneurs from making money.

Not so much these days as the rules have been changed. HB now has to be paid to the claimant which in turn is leading to people building up rent arrears.

[Tempwan Yierban]

A lot of people who "live in one for nothing" as you put it, live in the shittiest most horrible places available.

Good. Put them in a decent house and they don't look after it. Put them in a decent area and they just bring it down. I'd sooner they were all together.

Life on JSA aint easy and if you really think it is i suggest you give it a go!

I might be too proud for my own good perhaps, but I'm proud of the fact I work to try to provide for my family rather than relying on others.

If this country in general had a bit more pride and willingness to work, things would be very different.

[BoneDog]

My gosh.

Okay - so £53 a week, but then also whatever they can make robbing and selling drugs...

Is that a joke? If not, and it is your actual mindset, then you're a judgemental tit who lives in dreamland. Many people who rob and sell drugs also have full-time jobs you know, I know this for a fact. And most people on benefits don't rob or sell drugs.

Here's a fun fact for you. After my mortgage and bills are paid, I have far less than £53 a week.

Forgive me for jumping to conclusions, but I think that is the biggest crock of shit I've ever read on Foxestalk. Are savings one of your 'bills' by any chance, or don't you save? Savings aren't a bill. And is that Gin you drink a 'bill' or do you buy that from your 'far less than £53 a week' pocket money?

If you had 'far less' than £53 a week I'm also pretty sure you wouldn't be throwing money around at bookies every week. How many hundreds did you have on Seabass in the National? You probably also lost more than £53 this week alone by betting on Brighton to beat us if your recent betting habits are anything to go by.

I don't claim benefits myself, probably could if I enquired, and only earn about £600-£700 a month for a 25-30 hour week, but you won't see me complaining about money, or about people on unemployment benefit in a country that doesn't have the paid jobs to keep everyone happy.

You seem very angry about the benefit system, but you and the other well-off folk like yourself would do well to make some noise about the real reasons this country is in a financial catastrophe. But you won't, and will stick to the easy target that you're trained by the media to hate - until the poor and needy are totally crushed, when you might finally be satisfied (although tbh I don't think people like you will be satisfied until we've had a cull).

I wouldn't be surprised if you earn over £30,000 a year, so no need to pretend that you know what it's like to be poor whilst working hard. I know people who work real hard doing manual work, and have done all their life, but don't earn £15,000.

I do have a little pride in myself though.

A 'little superiority complex' is probably a more realistic description.

Perhaps you should try a bit of humbleness and realise how lucky you are.

[RobHawk]

Good. Put them in a decent house and they don't look after it. Put them in a decent area and they just bring it down. I'd sooner they were all together.

I might be too proud for my own good perhaps, but I'm proud of the fact I work to try to provide for my family rather than relying on others.

If this country in general had a bit more pride and willingness to work, things would be very different.

You should read the guardian article posted on the other page. Some very interesting stats in their about benefits and who actually receives them. Might give you a better idea of what the system is all about.

Imagine if you lost you job tomorrow - The company goes bust or cut backs means you are made redundant You could apply for 100's of jobs and get nothing. In the end you lose your house, move into some shitty rented accommodation on HB and JSA. Is any of that really your fault?? Should we really abandon you? Should we segregate you from people who have jobs because you will bring down nice areas! You may start out with your pride but after several rejection letters and not hearing from most jobs you apply too you wonder what the point is? You keep trying but its futile and working people look at you like your scum!

You will probably read that and think it will never happen to you, and it may not, i have no idea who you are or what you do. But that chain of events happens to normal hardworking people. To label them scroungers or to suggest they are below you is not only shocking but also completely wrong.

[Tempwan Yierban]

You could apply for 100's of jobs and get nothing.

Well, no because I'd actually be trying to get one and have skills, qualifications, ideas and a willingness to work hard.

At most points between leaving university and now (8 years), I've worked two jobs (really, really difficult to get jobs right), as well as having been self-employed as well (so three jobs at one time).

One office job, one job working shifts in a pub and one offering private academic tuition. None of those three jobs were advertised. I got up off my backside and went out and found them.

So I can pretty confidently say I will not be claiming JSA. I'll offer a service people want rather than live off the state.

Thanks for your concern though.

[Leicfox]

Benefits in Britain: separating the facts from the fiction

http://www.guardian....ain-facts-myths

Excellent article.

[Tempwan Yierban]

Forgive me for jumping to conclusions, but I think that is the biggest crock of shit I've ever read on Foxestalk.

I doubt it. Head over to the LCFC forum and read the NP apologists' guff!

Are savings one of your 'bills' by any chance, or don't you save? Savings aren't a bill. And is that Gin you drink a 'bill' or do you buy that from your 'far less than £53 a week' pocket money?

I don't put anything in to savings each month, every month I draw on what little savings we have.

The gin I drink is generally stuff I get gifted. Its all I really ask for if someone wants to buy me a gift. My current bottle of Martin Millers is a gift from a printer who I give some good business to.

How many hundreds did you have on Seabass in the National? You probably also lost more than £53 this week alone by betting on Brighton to beat us if your recent betting habits are anything to go by.

Do you understand betting and exchanges? I don't say that to be nasty...

I had a large bet on seabass which was hedged off/laid at lower odds at the exchanges. I did this by backing ante-post and laying most off at around half the odds.

Also - thanks for your concern, but I had £3 e/w on the winner at 100/1 and £3 e/w at 80/1.

If you want to make a few quid on the Masters, let me know and I'll set up a thread.

I can do one on guaranteed profits dutching if you like as well ie 101%+ markets.

[RobHawk]

Well, no because I'd actually be trying to get one and have skills, qualifications, ideas and a willingness to work hard.

At most points between leaving university and now (8 years), I've worked two jobs (really, really difficult to get jobs right), as well as having been self-employed as well (so three jobs at one time).

One office job, one job working shifts in a pub and one offering private academic tuition. None of those three jobs were advertised. I got up off my backside and went out and found them.

So I can pretty confidently say I will not be claiming JSA. I'll offer a service people want rather than live off the state.

Thanks for your concern though.

You completely fail to see the point i was making! What if there were no jobs. There are areas of this country where jobs are almost impossible to get. What if you field of expertise was suddenly not needed by this country. What if you developed a disability that stopped you doing your job now but allowed you to work on a check out so you can't even get disability benefits!

Pull your head out of you arse and see the bigger picture you small minded fool!

[Rincewind]

From £71 PW I now have to pay £14 Council Tax. That comes from Direct Debit so I do not see any of it. I don't know about my rent. I contacted the housing association I am with about DD or what method I should pay and how much but they have not got back to me with a reply.

[Tempwan Yierban]

You completely fail to see the point i was making! What if there were no jobs. There are areas of this country where jobs are almost impossible to get. What if you field of expertise was suddenly not needed by this country. What if you developed a disability that stopped you doing your job now but allowed you to work on a check out so you can't even get disability benefits!

Pull your head out of you arse and see the bigger picture you small minded fool!

Rob, I don't deal in hypotheticals. The example you are posing does not and would not exist. Where is this area of the country where there are NO jobs? For a good candidate, there is always a job. You may have to move to find the right job, but that must be better than giving up altogether?

If I developed a disability I'd probably run a business from home. I have a number of skills which I think can be marketable also in terms of some level of tuition/consultancy type approach.

If my skills/expertise were no longer required, I would probably re-train. I have picked up a number of skills through study from books borrowed from a library. There are also other ways to retrain at low/no cost if you are minded to do so. There are online courses which can offer an introduction to areas of study which can show potential insurers a willingness to work. Why more people don't take advantage of this is beyond me (or rather it isn't but the realisation that people take the easier option ie the money than do some work ie study is a sad one).

What exactly is the nature of this disability? If you give me an example with some specifics, perhaps I can try to answer you with a more 'real' answer.

As for your final point about me being a small minded fool - I think you resorting to the personal insult against a person you don't know says more about you than me.

[RobHawk]

Rob, I don't deal in hypotheticals. The example you are posing does not and would not exist. Where is this area of the country where there are NO jobs? For a good candidate, there is always a job. You may have to move to find the right job, but that must be better than giving up altogether?

If I developed a disability I'd probably run a business from home. I have a number of skills which I think can be marketable also in terms of some level of tuition/consultancy type approach.

If my skills/expertise were no longer required, I would probably re-train. I have picked up a number of skills through study from books borrowed from a library. There are also other ways to retrain at low/no cost if you are minded to do so. There are online courses which can offer an introduction to areas of study which can show potential insurers a willingness to work. Why more people don't take advantage of this is beyond me (or rather it isn't but the realisation that people take the easier option ie the money than do some work ie study is a sad one).

What exactly is the nature of this disability? If you give me an example with some specifics, perhaps I can try to answer you with a more 'real' answer.

As for your final point about me being a small minded fool - I think you resorting to the personal insult against a person you don't know says more about you than me.

Ok lets say receive some sort of brain trauma which results in you not being able to retrain or use your current skills - Not everyone in this world is intelligent so lets say the trauma leaves you with below average intelligence. You lose your current jobs and apply for DLA (or PIP as it will soon be known) and they say your not disabled try ESA. You apply for ESA and they say you can work in Morrisons on a checkout so whats the problem?

The problem is there are no supermarket jobs in your area so you are left on JSA. A job becomes available and you apply. Unfortunately 100 other people also apply for the job. 2 scenarios!

Scenario 1 - Luckily you get the job! Full time on minimum wage. Unfortunately its still not enough to pay your mortgage so you lose you home and end up in rented accommodation. You receive some HB and some WTC. According to what you have suggested you should not be allowed a place in a nice area and have been segreted to scummerville, where bus fare is twice as much to work meaning your budget is reduced even further.

Scenario 2 - You don't get the job, remain on JSA. lose your house etc etc.

The point im trying to make in all of thisis, it may be easy for you as you are now, but not everyone is in that position, skilled, confident, clever. Many unemployed are under 21 and desperate just to get something! You gotta be empathetic and look at it from another view other than your own. Otherwise you are small minded (i'll remove the fool - that was me getting exasperated with you not understanding my point!)

[Tempwan Yierban]

Ok lets say receive some sort of brain trauma which results in you not being able to retrain or use your current skills - Not everyone in this world is intelligent so lets say the trauma leaves you with below average intelligence. You lose your current jobs and apply for DLA (or PIP as it will soon be known) and they say your not disabled try ESA. You apply for ESA and they say you can work in Morrisons on a checkout so whats the problem?

The problem is there are no supermarket jobs in your area so you are left on JSA. A job becomes available and you apply. Unfortunately 100 other people also apply for the job. 2 scenarios!

Scenario 1 - Luckily you get the job! Full time on minimum wage. Unfortunately its still not enough to pay your mortgage so you lose you home and end up in rented accommodation. You receive some HB and some WTC. According to what you have suggested you should not be allowed a place in a nice area and have been segreted to scummerville, where bus fare is twice as much to work meaning your budget is reduced even further.

Scenario 2 - You don't get the job, remain on JSA. lose your house etc etc.

The point im trying to make in all of thisis, it may be easy for you as you are now, but not everyone is in that position, skilled, confident, clever. Many unemployed are under 21 and desperate just to get something! You gotta be empathetic and look at it from another view other than your own. Otherwise you are small minded (i'll remove the fool - that was me getting exasperated with you not understanding my point!)

Then in that exact, very specific situation, yes I would end up on JSA, so lets hope it doesn't.

I'm not short sighted though and have insured against a number of such eventualities, so should receive a sum at least sufficient to pay off the mortgage and make life a little more comfortable for a while.

I've never once criticised any disabled person who claims benefits though - my beef is with the lazy and workshy. The fact is there are so many ways to make yourself more employable and very few 'jobseekers' bother. They seem to think by and large that simply applying for jobs with an identikit (rubbish) CV is good enough. Why are they so rarely using their extensive time sat at home to study or learn new skills or seek out opportunities which don't appear in the job centre window.

Welfare is fine when the many support the few, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that whilst those on benefits TEND (don't rant - its not everyone) to multiply quicker than those who work (who'd actually need to pay for the upbringing of their children), the pool being supported is growing. How long can it continue?

I don't believe in forced contraception or whatever, but is there an argument for capping it at 1 child or 2 children when the parents have never worked a day in their lives? Discuss.

[Rincewind]

I've said this before but I left school with no GCSE's (They were only available to the top two forms at my school) and worked in a hosiery factory for around 35 years in a non-skilled job. Then I spent seven years in security leaving me at the age of 59 with no job and no qualifications. It would be difficult to get any company to re-train me as I could have illnesses more often or retire at 65.

Since being unemployed I have taken an ECDL and a food hygien course passing both. These were mainly for myself though for something to do in the hope it would improve the look of my CV.

I now have a part-time job which I can do abeit only five hours PW. I also qualify for Pension Credits in July. I could stay on JSA for the same amount as PC while being required to look for work. With PC I would not be required to search for work but will be off JSA. Which of the two options would be best for me and the working taxpayer?

[Tempwan Yierban]

I've said this before but I left school with no GCSE's and worked in a hosiery factory for around 35 years in a non-skilled job. Then I spent seven years in security leaving me at the age of 59 with no job and no qualifications. It would be difficult to get any company to re-train me as I could have illnesses more often or retire at 65.

Since being unemployed I have taken an ECDL and a food hygien course passing both. These were mainly for myself though for something to do in the hope it would improve the look of my CV.

I now have a part-time job which I can do abeit only five hours PW. I also qualify for Pension Credits in July. I could stay on JSA for the same amount as PC while being required to look for work. With PC I would not be required to search for work but will be off JSA. Which of the two options would be best for me and the working taxpayer?

Its not all about you mate. I have a certain level of sympathy with you there.

What about the kids who are brought up to play the system and never work? Is that right, too? Is that fine?