Benefits crackdown ‘humiliates’ disabled Army war veterans

[Rincewind]

Has the Mail also covered this story?

 

I will keep my thoughts on it private but am interested on thoughts of others on here.

 

[Guest]

Not really sure why you should hear our opinions without giving your own but okay.

 

Assessment isn't humiliating, it's a reasonable thing to do in a world of limited resources.

 

Army war veterans shouldn't be treated any differently than any other person. they are not special, they probably couldn't have done jobs that many other government employees have done and who are also assessed.

 

Why is it more humiliating for a war vet than a traffic warden?

[Guest MattP]

It looks dreadfully harsh and the Mail itself would be proud of the headline.

 

But surely in a fair society everybody should be treated the same be it a Soldier or just a normal guy in a factory? If they are fit to return to work (and I've worked with a couple of guys who have lost an arm) why should they still recieve incapacity benefits?

 

Some people are going to have realise at some stage of their life we can't keep paying for everyone to live without them contributing something to society, despite the so called 'cuts' we are borrowing something to the tune of 180billion a year still, the myth of cutting is just that.

[I am Rod Hull]

My mate (ex serviceman) who is paralyzed from the waist down and has limited use of his hands received a letter the other week asking him to attend an assessment 

 

He was fuming.

[Vlad the Fox]

I've noticed a few people round where I live suddenly finding their walking sticks.

[Rincewind]

Not really sure why you should hear our opinions without giving your own but okay.

 

Assessment isn't humiliating, it's a reasonable thing to do in a world of limited resources.

 

Army war veterans shouldn't be treated any differently than any other person. they are not special, they probably couldn't have done jobs that many other government employees have done and who are also assessed.

 

Why is it more humiliating for a war vet than a traffic warden?

I am just reporting the news. I don't have an opinion.

[Guest MattP]

I've noticed a few people round where I live suddenly finding their walking sticks.

 

There is a bird who is about 50 odd who drinks in our local who has a stick, I caught her a couple of months back walking down New Walk, this time with two crutches. Couldn't guess where she was going.

[Captain...]

It looks dreadfully harsh and the Mail itself would be proud of the headline.

 

But surely in a fair society everybody should be treated the same be it a Soldier or just a normal guy in a factory? If they are fit to return to work (and I've worked with a couple of guys who have lost an arm) why should they still recieve incapacity benefits?

 

Some people are going to have realise at some stage of their life we can't keep paying for everyone to live without them contributing something to society, despite the so called 'cuts' we are borrowing something to the tune of 180billion a year still, the myth of cutting is just that.

 

I agree with regards the assessment should be equal for all, regardless of history, but I think when people have dedicated themselves to serving this country and been crippled then we kind of owe it to them to be looked after and not forced to work shit jobs because they have no experience having dedicated their career to their country.

 

In the example a guy who has lost his arm is passed fit to work, well I guess he can work, but he isn't going to get an unskilled job ahead of any fully able person because he only has one arm, and unless he has a skill, or experience he learnt in the army that is transferable he will have no qualifications.

 

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but by being classed fit to work, he has lost disability benefits and presumably can only apply for JSA, but I don't know if that is less.

 

Maybe we need a category for disabled job seekers, that qualify for disability allowance whilst out of work, but must apply for jobs that they are suitable for, but that makes it all a lot more complicated.

 

I am still struggling to think of any unskilled jobs a one armed man can do to the same ability as an able bodied person.

[harpendenfox]

I'd turn it the other way round. I'd rather we paid people to do some work they are able to do, without degrading them, than paying them to do nothing. There can't be much worse than having nothing to get up for in the morning.

 

Of course we must respect our servicepeople, and help them in life if they suffer physical or mental scars in battle. But if you join the Army, or any other force, the logical conclusion is you may fight in battle, and risk injury.

 

Take the case of someone who loses a limb. They have been through an extraordinary and awful experience. Help them train to become counsellors to help others who go through something similar. That would seem to be a more economically and socially useful deployment of public funds

[Rincewind]

He was asked if he was right handed and when he replied ' Can't you see my arm is missing' the assessor said 'I'll take that as a no then.'

 

He did say that he was deemed unfit to rejoin the army.

[Captain...]

I'd turn it the other way round. I'd rather we paid people to do some work they are able to do, without degrading them, than paying them to do nothing. There can't be much worse than having nothing to get up for in the morning.

 

Of course we must respect our servicepeople, and help them in life if they suffer physical or mental scars in battle. But if you join the Army, or any other force, the logical conclusion is you may fight in battle, and risk injury.

 

Take the case of someone who loses a limb. They have been through an extraordinary and awful experience. Help them train to become counsellors to help others who go through something similar. That would seem to be a more economically and socially useful deployment of public funds

 

Agree with that, maybe jobs could be found for them within the armed forces, I always thought the army looked after their own in that respect, maybe that is an outdated philosophy.

[Guest]

My mate (ex serviceman) who is paralyzed from the waist down and has limited use of his hands received a letter the other week asking him to attend an assessment 

 

He was fuming.

 

Why?

 

Is he too busy to go?

 

He attends, they see he is not cheating the generous system and then he gets his money.

 

His being a serivemen changes nothing imo, someone paralysed from a car crash should be treated the same.

[Guest]

I am just reporting the news. I don't have an opinion.

 

You're 60+ and you don't have an opinion!

 

I don't believe that and would be severely disappointed if it were true.

 

We should all have an opinion until the day we die - about everything.

[Guest MattP]

I agree with regards the assessment should be equal for all, regardless of history, but I think when people have dedicated themselves to serving this country and been crippled then we kind of owe it to them to be looked after and not forced to work shit jobs because they have no experience having dedicated their career to their country.

 

In the example a guy who has lost his arm is passed fit to work, well I guess he can work, but he isn't going to get an unskilled job ahead of any fully able person because he only has one arm, and unless he has a skill, or experience he learnt in the army that is transferable he will have no qualifications.

 

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but by being classed fit to work, he has lost disability benefits and presumably can only apply for JSA, but I don't know if that is less.

 

Maybe we need a category for disabled job seekers, that qualify for disability allowance whilst out of work, but must apply for jobs that they are suitable for, but that makes it all a lot more complicated.

 

I am still struggling to think of any unskilled jobs a one armed man can do to the same ability as an able bodied person.

The ones who return home able bodied are rarely looked after, have a look at the statistics of veterans who end up on the street or those with serious mental disorders.

 

I agree with the below part, we do need something different that the current but you would have to wary of complicating an already over complex system.

 

One armed people can still operate most machinery, can still type, they can still pick up litter, they can still drive. Their is plenty to do, I remember seeing people on my travels in the third World doing incredible things with one arm or leg, when there is no welfare ssytem in place they don't have a choice.

 

I'm not saying encourage that, but it shows if needed they can do it.

[Guest]

perhaps just scrap the armed forces. Not go fighting in countries that have nothing to do with us.

[Captain...]

The ones who return home able bodied are rarely looked after, have a look at the statistics of veterans who end up on the street or those with serious mental disorders.

 

I agree with the below part, we do need something different that the current but you would have to wary of complicating an already over complex system.

 

One armed people can still operate most machinery, can still type, they can still pick up litter, they can still drive. Their is plenty to do, I remember seeing people on my travels in the third World doing incredible things with one arm or leg, when there is no welfare ssytem in place they don't have a choice.

 

I'm not saying encourage that, but it shows if needed they can do it.

 

Well that is my point, they can work, but if they are competing for jobs with an able bodied person they can't do it as well and even if the able bodied person is an idiot, they can still type faster, pick up more litter and drive easier than someone with one arm. If we had full employment and were desperately crying out for more people to work then get them working, but at the moment we have fairly high unemployment and many people are applying for every unskilled post.

[davieG]

Why?

 

Is he too busy to go?

 

He attends, they see he is not cheating the generous system and then he gets his money.

 

His being a serivemen changes nothing imo, someone paralysed from a car crash should be treated the same.

Wouldn't it be quicker and cheaper to check people's military discharge records rather than put someone through what could well be a difficult and presumably in this case an assisted journey.

[Guest MattP]

Well that is my point, they can work, but if they are competing for jobs with an able bodied person they can't do it as well and even if the able bodied person is an idiot, they can still type faster, pick up more litter and drive easier than someone with one arm. If we had full employment and were desperately crying out for more people to work then get them working, but at the moment we have fairly high unemployment and many people are applying for every unskilled post.

 

I think you are overestimating the general public.

 

Go into any Supermarket during the day and see just how useless most of the able bodied are, I'd take a bloke out the army with half an arm over them everytime to do anything.

[davieG]

Back in my time as an apprentice there used to be a blind guy that assembled complex clock movements, he do this whilst carrying conversations with his workmates. Was amazing to witness.

[Rincewind]

The Government want to reduce the number of unemployed and claiming benefit (despite that low paid workers are the biggest claimants) and focusing on these takes peoples' attention from other things.

 

But of course the above is wrong because this Government is fair to all and would not do anything any different.

[Webbo]

The Government want to reduce the number of unemployed and claiming benefit (despite that low paid workers are the biggest claimants) and focusing on these takes peoples' attention from other things.

 

But of course the above is wrong because this Government is fair to all and would not do anything any different.

No I'm sorry Ken, I can't understand a word of that.

[Guest MattP]

Back in my time as an apprentice there used to be a blind guy that assembled complex clock movements, he do this whilst carrying conversations with his workmates. Was amazing to witness.

 

There used to be a guy who was blind at Goldsmiths who did the alarms in the warehouse, it was something quite astonishing to watch.

[Guest MattP]

The Government want to reduce the number of unemployed and claiming benefit (despite that low paid workers are the biggest claimants) and focusing on these takes peoples' attention from other things.

 

But of course the above is wrong because this Government is fair to all and would not do anything any different.

 

It's nothing to do with taking attention away from other things. No one else seems to be thinking that apart from you. I've heard it all now, after last weeks events the Government wants to demonise ex-soldiers as benefit spongers, incredible.

 

If the Government really wanted to demonise benefit claimants who were the workshy/disabled (insert Daily Mirror quote here) they would completely separate that part of the welfare bill away from everything else to a different department.

 

In fact, that might be a good idea.

[Rincewind]

Like I said I am just reporting on the story. I was putting forward an alternate viewpoint. It does not follow that I am in agreement with it.

[I am Rod Hull]

Why?

 

Is he too busy to go?

 

He attends, they see he is not cheating the generous system and then he gets his money.

 

His being a serivemen changes nothing imo, someone paralysed from a car crash should be treated the same.

 

He was parayzed in a car crash, he`d left the army and he doesnt receive any money, he gets home help only. Its not as if they dont know about his disability, his accident was over 10 years ago.

 

EDIT: His mother gets money for looking after him.