The Misperceptions Quiz

[leicsmac]

You would have said that though to people who lived in Lozells or Hall Green 40 years ago wouldn't you?

 

And now it has. Of course people will be dubious about it, you only have to do some basic reading or travelling to see once middle class white areas that are now very Islamified within a time scale of your own lifetime.

 

Matter of scale. Again the media overegg things like this. There can't be that too many 'middle-class' districts where this has happened in the last few decades.

 

And also fuelling paranoia about the idea helps turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. People read about their district becoming 'Islamified' (whatever the hell that means), they're may well leave in their fear and paranoia, even if such fears are totally groundless. They leave, more Muslims move in, et voila. 

[Guest MattP]

Matter of scale. Again the media overegg things like this. There can't be that too many 'middle-class' districts where this has happened in the last few decades.

 

And also fuelling paranoia about the idea helps turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. People read about their district becoming 'Islamified' (whatever the hell that means), they're may well leave in their fear and paranoia, even if such fears are totally groundless. They leave, more Muslims move in, et voila. 

 

You don't need to fuel paranoia though, it's not like most people in Leicester haven't had a wander through St Matthews in the last ten years, we can all see what can happen, don't blame the papers, you don't need the weatherman to tell you it's raining. It's what happens when you fail to get people to integrate properly. Every government has been quite happy to bury their heads in the sand and allow areas to become colonised as they don't dare upset the apple cart (or in Labour case piss off their voters)

 

It will continue like this as well as there is no chance of having a grown up debate about it when people can't even aknowledge the problems we have with certain groups integrating. We'll get more and more of this.

 

What makes me laugh is despite the seperation of communities continuing at a rapid rate some people seem to think one day a magic wand is going to appear and everything will be fine.

 

Why aren't people asking questions of why anti gay/woman/western litrature is all over the place in areas of London and stays their for months? I'll tell you why, they are scared to death of the answer, they know in reality what a huge proportion of moderate muslims really think of a liberal society. It's the biggest inconvenient truth the left have ever faced and they know they haven't got an idea how to handle it except to keep digging and bury the head even further and have blind hope it goes away..

[leicsmac]

You don't need to fuel paranoia though, it's not like most people in Leicester haven't had a wander through St Matthews in the last ten years, we can all see what can happen, don't blame the papers, you don't need the weatherman to tell you it's raining. It's what happens when you fail to get people to integrate properly. Every government has been quite happy to bury their heads in the sand and allow areas to become colonised as they don't dare upset the apple cart (or in Labour case piss off their voters)

 

It will continue like this as well as there is no chance of having a grown up debate about it when people can't even aknowledge the problems we have with certain groups integrating. We'll get more and more of this.

 

What makes me laugh is despite the seperation of communities continuing at a rapid rate some people seem to think one day a magic wand is going to appear and everything will be fine.

 

Why aren't people asking questions of why anti gay/woman/western litrature is all over the place in areas of London and stays their for months? I'll tell you why, they are scared to death of the answer, they know in reality what a huge proportion of moderate muslims really think of a liberal society. It's the biggest inconvenient truth the left have ever faced and they know they haven't got an idea how to handle it except to keep digging and bury the head even further and have blind hope it goes away..

 

I do blame the papers for hyperbole, failing to educate and report in a level-headed fashion and fuelling the division through sensationalism just to sell though.

 

But I do agree that there is a problem with integration, and that it is only going to grow if it is not addressed. 

I think that education is the answer on all sides. Right now people are scared of a minority of lunatics, and the Press blows this up into a state where they are scared of any Muslim around them. So they don't integrate. And on the other side you have the fundamentalist moron Muslims who want nothing to do with any other demographic despite settling here (what's with that?) and you have the moderates who see all these other demographics staring at them and looking scared and mistaking fear for dislike. So they grab the wrong end of the stick too, and think that everyone else doesn't want to know them and through their own ignorance don't want to know better, so they don't integrate either.

 

At the end of it all...everyone is dancing to the tune of the extremists on both sides. There needs to be a two-pronged approach. Firstly there needs to be better laws for deporting clerics who make clear hate speeches. The ECHR is fine in most matters but here it is not fit for purpose. And it allows dangerous men to poison the minds of impressionable people. Arrest 'em, throw 'em out. ASAP. And make sure the moderates help out with it.

The extremists on the other side, use our own laws to deal with them. Secondly, educate people. There are positive stories about integrated communities, and these need to be widely known. Moderate whites need to know that people live alongside Muslims every day without hate preaching/paedophilia etc, and moderate Muslims need to know that not every white person thinks they're a potential suicide bomber. The media seem to have forgotten their duty to the people in matters like this - perhaps it's time they were reminded.

 

You can't force people to integrate, but you can make it easier.

[Rincewind]

It appears there are misconceptions about the validity of statistics that reveals that the public have misconceptions about nearly everything but oh no that cant be right can it so the ones that published it must be leftie liberals..

 

The internet is full of reports from different organisations that have figures taken from those that work within it and those that experienced the issues. Those reporting in the media do not have that experience just publish what they think  the public prefers to read.

It has been done before in times of recession

 

But I never did very well at the quiz. Got a minus for one qustion where I misread the figures and others I went too far the other way. I knew which was the myth answer because I have never believed myths were true and I hate to put sections of society in the same pigeon hole.

[jonthefox]

5/10. Meh.

[Webbo]

It appears there are misconceptions about the validity of statistics that reveals that the public have misconceptions about nearly everything but oh no that cant be right can it so the ones that published it must be leftie liberals..

 

a) Nobody has said the figures are wrong.

b) Whenever there are any good statistics about the economy you claim they are fake.

[Rincewind]

Well that's exactly my point. We have had bombs on trains, soldiers beheaded, sharia courts practiced up and down the land, madrassas teaching hate and every major town seems to have had a problem with grooming gangs and that's when they only have just 5% of the population.

 

Surely you can understand people being a bit pensive about it? It's not a figure that is doing to decrease is it?

 

Are you saying the Media are lying that these things are happening?

 

There has also been an instance in nearly every town of a white kid nicking an old ladies handbag. Will we be taken over by street wise kids and talking Chav in five years time??

[Rincewind]

a) Nobody has said the figures are wrong.

b) Whenever there are any good statistics about the economy you claim they are fake.

 

 

They have been stated as carried out by lefties.

Whenever bad news about people suffering mor in the last year it is considered wrong and leftist.

[Guest MattP]

 

 

There has also been an instance in nearly every town of a white kid nicking an old ladies handbag. Will we be taken over by street wise kids and talking Chav in five years time??

 

Are you comparing the systematic co-ordinated gang drugging and raping of minors by gangs of grown men to nicking a hangbag?

 

Yes Ken, when white people are 95% percent of the population it's not really much of an observation that they engage in petty crime.

 

When I walk through some parts Leicester it has been taken over by white chavs, but then again, you actually like that don't you?

[Webbo]

 

Whenever bad news about people suffering mor in the last year it is considered wrong and leftist.

It's been considered preachy and boring.

[Guest MattP]

I do blame the papers for hyperbole, failing to educate and report in a level-headed fashion and fuelling the division through sensationalism just to sell though.

 

But I do agree that there is a problem with integration, and that it is only going to grow if it is not addressed. 

I think that education is the answer on all sides. Right now people are scared of a minority of lunatics, and the Press blows this up into a state where they are scared of any Muslim around them. So they don't integrate. And on the other side you have the fundamentalist moron Muslims who want nothing to do with any other demographic despite settling here (what's with that?) and you have the moderates who see all these other demographics staring at them and looking scared and mistaking fear for dislike. So they grab the wrong end of the stick too, and think that everyone else doesn't want to know them and through their own ignorance don't want to know better, so they don't integrate either.

 

At the end of it all...everyone is dancing to the tune of the extremists on both sides. There needs to be a two-pronged approach. Firstly there needs to be better laws for deporting clerics who make clear hate speeches. The ECHR is fine in most matters but here it is not fit for purpose. And it allows dangerous men to poison the minds of impressionable people. Arrest 'em, throw 'em out. ASAP. And make sure the moderates help out with it.

The extremists on the other side, use our own laws to deal with them. Secondly, educate people. There are positive stories about integrated communities, and these need to be widely known. Moderate whites need to know that people live alongside Muslims every day without hate preaching/paedophilia etc, and moderate Muslims need to know that not every white person thinks they're a potential suicide bomber. The media seem to have forgotten their duty to the people in matters like this - perhaps it's time they were reminded.

 

You can't force people to integrate, but you can make it easier.

 

Good post.

 

I agree with most of it, problem is we can't draw up laws to throw out these clerics, I don't need to explain why I'm sure.

 

I still think it's very hard to pin it on the press, they can only report what happens. You allow places like Tower Hamlets, Manningham, Lozells to develop and you reap what you sow. Don't blame anyone else but the governments.

[leicsmac]

Good post.

 

I agree with most of it, problem is we can't draw up laws to throw out these clerics, I don't need to explain why I'm sure.

 

I still think it's very hard to pin it on the press, they can only report what happens. You allow places like Tower Hamlets, Manningham, Lozells to develop and you reap what you sow. Don't blame anyone else but the governments.

 

Yeah, the present laws are not fit for purpose and we can't draw up new ones because our hands are tied. It's a pain in the arse that we can't make the necessary adjustments without becoming politically (and economically to a degree) isolated from the rest of Europe. Where's the middle ground?

 

The Press aren't to blame for the political decisions that brought this situation about - like you said that's the fault of successive Governments, but they do have a hand in keeping it going by circulating stories designed to provoke fear. As practically anyone on here can tell I'm of the opinion that the mainstream Press is is bed  with the political elite anyway - they're no longer a bulwark against political corruption, they're now a part of it. It's not in their interest for these communities to integrate as bad news sells better and it's a problem they personally (that is to say the editors/owners) will never have to encounter. 

 

The only way good news and education about integration would spread is through independent sources. Hopefully people will begin to use these more too, or at least use multiple sources for their news.

 

But it's difficult to get the word out when every major news source is hellbent on spreading fear.

[Rincewind]

Some of the food banks in Leicester are run by Muslims alongside other faiths. They work together in the same place. Unless you work or visit them the misconceptions will continue because when pointed out it is considered leftist or boring and it is ignored.

[Guest MattP]

Yeah, the present laws are not fit for purpose and we can't draw up new ones because our hands are tied. It's a pain in the arse that we can't make the necessary adjustments without becoming politically (and economically to a degree) isolated from the rest of Europe. Where's the middle ground?

 

The Press aren't to blame for the political decisions that brought this situation about - like you said that's the fault of successive Governments, but they do have a hand in keeping it going by circulating stories designed to provoke fear. As practically anyone on here can tell I'm of the opinion that the mainstream Press is is bed  with the political elite anyway - they're no longer a bulwark against political corruption, they're now a part of it. It's not in their interest for these communities to integrate as bad news sells better and it's a problem they personally (that is to say the editors/owners) will never have to encounter. 

 

The only way good news and education about integration would spread is through independent sources. Hopefully people will begin to use these more too, or at least use multiple sources for their news.

 

But it's difficult to get the word out when every major news source is hellbent on spreading fear.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this I think regarding the media.

 

I just can't see it at all, when you look at how organisations like the BBC have continued to describe these (to the absolute fury of Sikhs and Hindus I'll add) gangrapes and attacks as "Asian Gangs" rather than "Muslim" shows to me they are doing a lot in there power to try and do anything they can not to spread fear.

 

They have gone pretty easy on immigrant crime figures in London as well when you read the actual facts that are available.

 

Some of the food banks in Leicester are run by Muslims alongside other faiths. They work together in the same place. Unless you work or visit them the misconceptions will continue because when pointed out it is considered leftist or boring and it is ignored.

 

 

For the last time saying a that Muslims often struggle to integrate doesn't mean...

 

1. Every Muslim is bad.

2. Some Muslims don't work alongside other faiths.

[leicsmac]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this I think regarding the media.

 

I just can't see it at all, when you look at how organisations like the BBC have continued to describe these (to the absolute fury of Sikhs and Hindus I'll add) gangrapes and attacks as "Asian Gangs" rather than "Muslim" shows to me they are doing a lot in there power to try and do anything they can not to spread fear.

 

They have gone pretty easy on immigrant crime figures in London as well when you read the actual facts that are available.

 

 

Fair enough, agree to disagree it is. I just see the rightwing rags blaming practically every woe in this country on immigrants and Muslims. But then as you said you have the BBC bending over backwards NOT to link them to the same kinds of things. As always, too much polarisation and no middle ground. 

 

Could we at least agree though on the idea that they all know bad news and fear sells better and that's why they write their stories with that in mind? If it wasn't Muslims, there would be another group they would go after (and of course, some papers specialise in different targets).

[Guest MattP]

Of course, bad news effects people more than good unfortunately so it sells.

[Rincewind]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this I think regarding the media.

 

I just can't see it at all, when you look at how organisations like the BBC have continued to describe these (to the absolute fury of Sikhs and Hindus I'll add) gangrapes and attacks as "Asian Gangs" rather than "Muslim" shows to me they are doing a lot in there power to try and do anything they can not to spread fear.

 

They have gone pretty easy on immigrant crime figures in London as well when you read the actual facts that are available.

 

 

 

For the last time saying a that Muslims often struggle to integrate doesn't mean...

 

1. Every Muslim is bad.

2. Some Muslims don't work alongside other faiths.

 

I'm not saying you're saying that.

 

Its the thing about how things are seen isn't it. The glass is either half full or half empty.

[Kitchandro]

I'm not saying you're saying that.

 

Its the thing about how things are seen isn't it. The glass is either half full or half empty.

 

Not really. You expect people to be happy working alongside other faiths and being tolerant of the culture of the country they are in. It's not a glass half empty attitude to acknowledge that too many Muslims fail to integrate properly in our society.

[Rincewind]

I knew what I meant.  anyway if noone else did.