Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 They are far-right in the respects they are fundamentally against equal rights for homosexuals claiming they is 'no demand' and calling gay people a 'noisy minority' in their manifesto. I don't think I labelled the UKIP party as racist did I? But, many of their members are, not all but many. Are they against equal rights for homosexuals? I've never seen this, they even have a gay internal group "Out and Proud". The last sentence I won't even justify with an answer, complete unsubstantiated nonsense. Wanting complete control over who comes into your country doesn't and has never made you a racist.
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 Fair play to the OP for at least having an opinion, even if he's making some allegations that aren't particularly well researched. Politics affects us all and it's sad to think there are folks twice and three times his age who claim they couldn't give a toss about it. Keep it up and hopefully you'll inspire your peers by doing so. Thanks. Like I said, I'm far from an expert and I'd appreciate anyone correcting me on misleading things I've posted Much more helpful than defensive quips from a certain UKIP supporter that is oddly offended that I don't agree with him
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Thanks. Like I said, I'm far from an expert and I'd appreciate anyone correcting me on misleading things I've posted Much more helpful than defensive quips from a certain UKIP supporter that is oddly offended that I don't agree with him I'm a Tory. I'm not offended that you don't agree, I'm just correcting your ludricrous acusations towards a party I am fond of.
Shoe Seller Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I believe in one thing and one thing only; a meritocracy. Let people have what they deserve. Let them reap what they sow. A strong legal system, lots of jails and lots of (decent) police. Let society sort itself out by stopping the handouts to the 'can't-be-arseds' and 'better-off-on-benefits'. Oh and sort the bloody roads out.
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 Are they against equal rights for homosexuals? I've never seen this, they even have a gay internal group "Out and Proud". The last sentence I won't even justify with an answer, complete unsubstantiated nonsense. Wanting complete control over who comes into your country doesn't and has never made you a racist. senior UKIP member Dr Julia Gasper branded gay rights a “lunatic’s charter†and claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals. She added: “As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the Âsubject.†UKIP member Jan Zolyniak posted: “The evidence is quite clear that the percentage of homosexuals who molest children is very high and cannot be dismissed.†Another member complained about the impact of immigration on the NHS, writing: “I am informed by past media that Black Caribbean and not Black African have a higher instance of schizophrenia. “I wonder if this is due to inbreeding on these small islands in slave times or is it due to Âsmoking grass.†The Sunday Mirror investigation found one Ukip councillor described illegal immigrants as "sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-f******, ragheads". Another Ukip councillor branded president Barack Obama a "closet imam", while a third said there were "too many Muslims" in the UK. Odd stance for a 'libertarian' and 'democratic' party, is it not?
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 Stopped reading when you called UKIP "far-right". Terrible "facts", coming from the site which has your opinion down as "100% accurate". Don't give the excuse you are not an expert either. That is quite obviously tongue in cheek.
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 I'm a Tory. I'm not offended that you don't agree, I'm just correcting your ludricrous acusations towards a party I am fond of. I said they were far-right which others have said is down to interpretation? They're nationalist, against equal marriage and have racist members? They're all true?
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Whoopy do, a few members made some posts on social networks. If that's the worst you can find after a "Sunday Mirror investigation" we can all put ourselves at ease. Want me to show you a load of Liberal Democrats members and councillors up for molesting young boys? Does that prove you are the party of the paedophiles? Of course it doesn't. I completely agree with the last statement, we'll see if the amount of gay marriages proves them wrong over the next few years.
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Fair play to the OP for at least having an opinion, even if he's making some allegations that aren't particularly well researched. Politics affects us all and it's sad to think there are folks twice and three times his age who claim they couldn't give a toss about it. Keep it up and hopefully you'll inspire your peers by doing so. I understand what you are saying but older people have seen more governments than the younger idealists. The young have many years of being shat on, lied to, misinformed, been told 'trust me' It does get a little monotonous after a few years. I still remember the days of Harold Wilson, Tony Benn and another name gone, the scruffy one. They did their campaigning wearing a flat cap and boots. Good old days.
Shoe Seller Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I completely agree with the last statement, we'll see if the amount of gay marriages proves them wrong over the next few years. At least I might sell some damn shoes.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I said they were far-right which others have said is down to interpretation? They're nationalist, against equal marriage and have racist members? They're all true? Unionist more than Nationalist. All parties will have some racist members. Not one mainstream media outlet describes them as far right, even the BBC and the Guardian who would love to if they could get away with it.
Shoe Seller Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Yadda yadda Tony Benn yadda yadda bored. He makes the rice yeah?
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 Whoopy do, a few members made some posts on social networks. If that's the worst you can find after a "Sunday Mirror investigation" we can all put ourselves at ease. Want me to show you a load of Liberal Democrats members and councillors up for molesting young boys? Does that prove you are the party of the paedophiles? Of course it doesn't. I completely agree with the last statement, we'll see if the amount of gay marriages proves them wrong over the next few years. I didn't say they were a racist party. I said they had racist members. I don't know why you're twisting my words, as far as I can see everything I've said is true. If this is the way you react to people with differing opinions then god help you. At least, I'm making an effort to care about it.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I agree, young people should get into politics, that encouraging to see. I'm not twisting your words, you can't call someone far right then say you aren't accusing them of racism, the two things generally go hand in hand.
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 I agree, young people should get into politics, that encouraging to see. I'm not twisting your words, you can't call someone far right then say you aren't accusing them of racism, the two things generally go hand in hand. Generally, maybe. But I never made the explicit link so you have in fact twisted my words.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I agree, young people should get into politics, that encouraging to see. I'm not twisting your words, you can't call someone far right then say you aren't accusing them of racism, the two things generally go hand in hand. Politics is such a vague, minefield of differing opinions that I'm not sure you can say that really. You could be a massively authoritarian, pro life, Christian conservative, homophobic, slavery-supporting, capital-punishment backing neo fascist and still abhor racial prejudice. If this forum teaches you only one thing it's that people and their opinions are largely diverse and wholly weird.
ealingfox Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 How anyone can seriously go out and vote for them with a straight face after the last reign is beyond me. (unless you have appeared on shameless etc) The realistic alternative to voting Labour is voting Conservative, and how anyone can do that with a straight face after their last few reigns is beyond me, unless they are a posho of course. Are you a posho Matt? I assume you are, seeing as your 'appeared on shameless' comment probably refers to anyone who doesn't have six figures in the bank.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 The realistic alternative to voting Labour is voting Conservative, and how anyone can do that with a straight face after their last few reigns is beyond me, unless they are a posho of course. Are you a posho Matt? I assume you are, seeing as your 'appeared on shameless' comment probably refers to anyone who doesn't have six figures in the bank. You mean the reigns that left us with a shitload in the bank? Awful. Posh, yep I've been called it. I love it when "posho" and "toryboy" etc are used as insults Politics is such a vague, minefield of differing opinions that I'm not sure you can say that really. You could be a massively authoritarian, pro life, Christian conservative, homophobic, slavery-supporting, capital-punishment backing neo fascist and still abhor racial prejudice. If this forum teaches you only one thing it's that people and their opinions are largely diverse and wholly weird. Very fair. When you read Mein Kamph apart from the social policies Hitler was a proper socialist.
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I'm sure you can be a successful businessman and believe in giving your employees a fair wage regardless if they live in a bought or council flat without being a loony leftie.
ealingfox Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 You mean the reigns that left us with a shitload in the bank? Awful. Posh, yep I've been called it. I love it when "posho" and "toryboy" etc are used as insults Very fair. When you read Mein Kamph apart from the social policies Hitler was a proper socialist. Or the reigns that left millions unemployed and whole cities neglected to future social deprivation. If you weren't born into wealth, you wouldn't see it the same way, that is and will always be the case. It wasn't an insult there, just a label. I wouldn't insult you just for being posh, that would be unfair, but I would when you do things like compare Labour voters as a group to Frank Gallagher etc.
Charl91 Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I'm sure you can be a successful businessman and believe in giving your employees a fair wage regardless if they live in a bought or council flat without being a loony leftie. Unless they're homeless. No-one like homeless people.
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Unless they're homeless. No-one like homeless people. Unless they're homeless. No-one like homeless people. Thats true.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Or the reigns that left millions unemployed and whole cities neglected to future social deprivation. If you weren't born into wealth, you wouldn't see it the same way, that is and will always be the case. It wasn't an insult there, just a label. I wouldn't insult you just for being posh, that would be unfair, but I would when you do things like compare Labour voters as a group to Frank Gallagher etc. I wasn't born into wealth at all. Not poverty either, but not wealth. Both parents were from a council estate. I lived in Braunstone for a while in my twenties and I still voted Tory. It's about asiprations for me, why would I vote for a party that wants to keep me poor and on their voting roll?
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Unless they're homeless. No-one like homeless people. Cardboard Box tax would be a popular policy, could earn decent tax revenue as well if the amount of homeless is rising as much as Ken says it is.
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Cardboard Box tax would be a popular policy, could earn decent tax revenue as well if the amount of homeless is rising as much as Ken says it is. It is not me saying it, it is charities, social services, church groups, lawyers, housing officials, media among others. The only ones not saying it are those that do not see it.
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