Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 UKIP's policies are pretty right wing in Britain. I don't think it's such a huge error to label them "far" right, it's not quite the right word but you know what he's getting at. I also don't appreciate the harshly worded criticism this young man is getting. Explain any errors you think he may have made but bear in mind that there are better ways to phrase what you're saying. If you label a party that has White, Black, Christian, Muslim and Jewish members and councillors whilst also employing a specific policy of not allowing any ex NF or BNP members (believe me Labour wouldn't do that!) as "far right" then you will get the response you deserve. Cheap political potshotting at it's worst, can't criticise the policy properly so I'll stand at the side and shout bigot/racist/homophobe whatever. Pathetic.
Harry - LCFC Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 If you label a party that has White, Black, Christian, Muslim and Jewish members and councillors whilst also employing a specific policy of not allowing any ex NF or BNP members (believe me Labour wouldn't do that!) as "far right" then you will get the response you deserve. Cheap political potshotting at it's worst, can't criticise the policy properly so I'll stand at the side and shout bigot/racist/homophobe whatever. Pathetic. I realise you don't like to see the parties you favour criticised incorrectly but I'd prefer it if you saw this as an opportunity to educate a young individual rather than give him a hard time.
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I'm gone as well then being of Irish-Austrian stock UK Independence 34 Conservative 26 Labour 0 Liberal Democrat -4 Green -22 You expected: CON Your recommendation: UK Independence Party Labour -11 lol That's as surprising as Acooling coming out a Liberal. I know. Now will people stop labeling me as a Leftie. Still think it should have been above UKIP and CON though I don't think the blog was too bad. If it was not for the Lib Dem turning to the co-olition for power then I would still favour them. They are now starting to object to some things so by next election they may win one apathetic voter back.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I realise you don't like to see the parties you favour criticised incorrectly but I'd prefer it if you saw this as an opportunity to educate a young individual rather than give him a hard time. Politics is a big boys game, if you give it out in very harsh terms you can take it.
johnny the fox Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 anybody who looks for help or salvation from a politician is a fool, Its down to you ..nobody else in this life gives a fook or will help you, unless you pay. trust yourself and your decisions, then if it goes tits up its down to you. but in the end you will learn and succeed.
bovril Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 If you label a party that has White, Black, Christian, Muslim and Jewish members and councillors whilst also employing a specific policy of not allowing any ex NF or BNP members (believe me Labour wouldn't do that!) as "far right" then you will get the response you deserve. Cheap political potshotting at it's worst, can't criticise the policy properly so I'll stand at the side and shout bigot/racist/homophobe whatever. Pathetic. Well he didn't shout "bigot / racist / whatever", he said they were far-right. If you read their manifesto you will realise they are very right wing in social and economic policies. How "far" they are depends on where you stand I guess.
Bobby Hundreds Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Left wing34Utilitarian7Idealistic-7Right wing-34 I always thought I was a bit of a fence sitter.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Well he didn't shout "bigot / racist / whatever", he said they were far-right. If you read their manifesto you will realise they are very right wing in social and economic policies. How "far" they are depends on where you stand I guess. Calling a party far right is doing all of those things. I think you need to read up on the UKIP manifesto, a ten billions supposed tax cut and a two tier rate that appears lower than now is hardly the stuff of a right party. The last taxation article I read from Paul Nuttall sounded like something the Liberals would have reeled off.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 My MP is great, Stephen Dorell, had a few drinks with him and he always replies when I send him a question or viewpoint. Most people who come out with the "they dont care, out of touch" etc etc are generally the sort of people who have never even tried to contact them. I'm sorry but, regardless of your politics, Dorrell is a terrible MP. He's never there. He might be a lovely bloke and he could have some fantastic political opinions but he's one of the biggest absentees in politics. I'm sure there are Labour candidates who are just as bad, I'm only particularly aware of Dorrell as a former Rothley resident.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I'm sorry but, regardless of your politics, Dorrell is a terrible MP. He's never there. He might be a lovely bloke and he could have some fantastic political opinions but he's one of the biggest absentees in politics. I'm sure there are Labour candidates who are just as bad, I'm only particularly aware of Dorrell as a former Rothley resident. That's your opinion, I've spoken to him at a couple of his surgieries (he is working Saturdays) and e-mailed him 5-6 times and he has always replied and been concise and curt in his response. That's what I want from my MP, in fact I prefer that to sitting in the House all week voting on stuff 99% of people couldn't give a sh*t about.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 That's your opinion, I've spoken to him at a couple of his surgieries (he is working Saturdays) and e-mailed him 5-6 times and he has always replied and been concise and curt in his response. That's what I want from my MP, in fact I prefer that to sitting in the House all week voting on stuff 99% of people couldn't give a sh*t about. It's not my opinion, it is (or was) fact. I'm a little out of touch having not lived there for a while but statistics on MP voting and attendance can be found online as far as I'm aware and Dorrell was historically one of the worst in recent history.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 It's fact he's a terrible MP because he has a bad record of voting? What are you smoking today?
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 It's fact he'rarely actually IN parliament. Or, was.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 It's fact he'rarely actually IN parliament. Or, was. Not disputing that, doesn't make him a terrible MP though.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 It certainly doesn't make him a very good one. You can be a local councillor or form community groups if you just want to impact your immediate constituency. What's the point of being a member of parliament if you aren't representing your people IN parliament?! Look, this is nothing to do with his beliefs or him being a Tory, I'd feel the same if I realized Liz Kendall (who I didn't vote for either, incidentally, though who is my MP now) was never present. As I said, he might be a great guy and he may have made time for you but that doesn't make a good MP.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 It certainly doesn't make him a very good one. You can be a local councillor or form community groups if you just want to impact your immediate constituency. What's the point of being a member of parliament if you aren't representing your people IN parliament?! Look, this is nothing to do with his beliefs or him being a Tory, I'd feel the same if I realized Liz Kendall (who I didn't vote for either, incidentally, though who is my MP now) was never present. As I said, he might be a great guy and he may have made time for you but that doesn't make a good MP. Agreed again, doesn't make him good or bad. He's always available though which I like. Liz Kendall crikey, did you watch her on Question Time the other week? Apart from Gloria De Piero and Diane Abbott I'd never seen anything like it, was like they had dragged someone out the audience, no idea if it's these all woman shortlists throwing up such sub standard politicians. Sally Barcow is on the potential list for Labour now Amazing really, if they removed this nonsense and had gone for David Miliband the party would probably be in Number 10 by now. Cuts everywhere, a hated government, no one has any cash and the Tories are still level with Labour in the Guardian poll, you couldn't make it up.
Finnegan Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I met her a few times in the run up to the last election and wasn't all that impressed on any occasion. Waste of a guaranteed Labour seat.
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Thought MP stood for Member of Parliament? If you or any other person does not turn up for work then the boss would be pretty pissed off. And we are the MP's boss. Our taxes pay for their wages. Maybe they should get paid a decent starting wage then a bonus depending on how much and often they turn up. I can guarantee that close to the next election there will be scores of baby kissing MP's roaming the streets and promising the world. I'm sure there are good caring MP's out there somewhere. I have met a couple of decent ones well Councillors. One who was responsible for social care said she would resign if she couldn't make a difference. Peter Soulsby is outwardly a nice bloke and always willing to be interviewed if we ask the right questions and David Connoly was interviewed for the DNO paper. But I'm sorry I cannot see an MP who is living on a large estate fighting for the cause of a domestic violence victim that is having to move from hostel to an unheated bedsit and is living on £70 PW. Two different Winters to look forward to.
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I met her a few times in the run up to the last election and wasn't all that impressed on any occasion. Waste of a guaranteed Labour seat. Scandalous when you see ones like this and Sally Bercow coming in to replace the old school like Robin Cook and Jack Straw but the party seems set to stop at nothing to make it 50% women 50% men whatever the quality of politician. I quite fancy her Labour do win the sex battle in more ways than one, Di Peiro, Caroline Flint, Luciana Berger would all get it, certainly more chance of a gobble from them than than the Tories as well. (unless it's a bloke)
Rincewind Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Scandalous when you see ones like this and Sally Bercow coming in to replace the old school like Robin Cook and Jack Straw but the party seems set to stop at nothing to make it 50% women 50% men whatever the quality of politician. Labour do win the sex battle in more ways than one, Di Peiro, Caroline Flint, Luciana Berger would all get it, certainly more chance of a gobble from them than than the Tories as well. (unless it's a bloke) Ann Widdercombe?
Guest MattP Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Ann Widdercombe? I hope when a suicide bomber arrives in Paradise that's the first in line of the 72.
Charl91 Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 I hated Nick Clegg before it was cool. I remember in my first year of University, after watching the live political debate, all my fellow students were calling me an idiot for not voting for him. I said that you have to be suspicious of a guy who says "trust me" that many times. The only plus side is that when they rant on about how crap he is, I get to do my smug "I told you so" grin.
Voll Blau Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Fair play to the OP for at least having an opinion, even if he's making some allegations that aren't particularly well researched. Politics affects us all and it's sad to think there are folks twice and three times his age who claim they couldn't give a toss about it. Keep it up and hopefully you'll inspire your peers by doing so.
FuriousFox46 Posted 17 July 2013 Author Posted 17 July 2013 Calling a party far right is doing all of those things. I think you need to read up on the UKIP manifesto, a ten billions supposed tax cut and a two tier rate that appears lower than now is hardly the stuff of a right party. The last taxation article I read from Paul Nuttall sounded like something the Liberals would have reeled off. They are far-right in the respects they are fundamentally against equal rights for homosexuals claiming they is 'no demand' and calling gay people a 'noisy minority' in their manifesto. I don't think I labelled the UKIP party as racist did I? But, many of their members are, not all but many. A good effort, mate - better than 95% of the political ramblings I read on here (and I'm no Lib Dem supporter). Keep it up and don't let aging reactionaries like MattP put you off...in fact, I'd sue him for defamation if I were you. Where you see UKIP on the spectrum will depend on where you stand yourself. I expect Hitler saw Mussolini as a moderate and Franco as a pinko liberal! UKIP aren't an overtly racist party, but nationalism is certainly a cornerstone of their politics. There's also a lot of "Poujadism" in the mix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poujade). They're certainly well to the right of any British political party in my lifetime, apart from the likes of the BNP, NF etc. In seeking to explain the continued dominance of Tories and Labour, you could usefully put more emphasis on our electoral system. In truth, the only votes that matter are those of swing voters in marginal seats, so the political parties end up tailoring their message primarily to those people, many (not all) of whom are fairly uninformed about politics. It doesn't matter what people in big cities or rural areas think, as the 2 parties can mainly rely on them to vote in Tory and Labour MPs, respectively. The only places that matter politically are small towns and suburbs - and their non-aligned voters. The unhealthy slant that this gives to national politics is all the more egregious as England has one of the most centralised political systems in the democratic world so there are few alternative centres of political power (except the business lobby, which has more or less morphed into part of national government, whether NuLab or ConDems). Some ideas for future blogs: - Why did the SDP fail to "break the mould" of politics in the 1980s, as it promised? At times, it topped the opinion polls and looking like breaking the 2-party system. It won several parliamentary byelections (more than UKIP has done yet)...but ended up winning just 6 seats (I think) in the general election - and then merging with the Liberals to remain even a minor force. - What exactly are the core politics of UKIP? Nationalism? Poujadism? Populism? Protection of white middle-class/SE England? - To what extent is the political message of the main 3 parties determined by polling, focus groups etc? - Are there certain quite plausible policies that would simply be electoral suicide ("taxes need to rise"; "privatise the NHS", "the EU is good", "immigration needs to rise", "bring back national service", "nuclear power is the best green energy", "GM foods are a good idea")? Why is political debate so constrained? - Just how would politics be different if we had proportional representation? The policies espoused by the parties, not just the electoral arithmetic.... Keep up the good work, mate! A better contribution than MattP or Lavrentis has ever made to this forum. Thanks very much
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