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Meltonfossefox

Red Indian

By Meltonfossefox, in Leicester City Forum

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The Year Of The Fox

The Year Of The Fox

Posted
Posted

My first post on this forum for years, so apologies for making a whinge.... Living in Arizona I'm perhaps a little more aware than the average Leicester fan that using terms such as 'Red Indian' and the other 'puns' in this thread are about as politically correct as using terms such as p*ki and n*gger - pretty much unacceptable under any circumstances. Perhaps we can leave it there? Thanks.

I know yanks (is this ok to say?) are renowned for not having a sense of humour but christ!

Ok chief

lol

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Meltonfossefox

Meltonfossefox

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I'm blaming zingari lol I do actually remember that guy! Maybe I should have said this "does anyone remember a guy that did a good Carmen Miranda impression in the old sk2" maybe the Americans would have appreciated this a little more. lol. Chill out guys, how do you think we feel when you call us ozzies lol

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Zingari

Zingari

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Posted

I'm blaming zingari lol I do actually remember that guy! Maybe I should have said this "does anyone remember a guy that did a good Carmen Miranda impression in the old sk2" maybe the Americans would have appreciated this a little more. lol. Chill out guys, how do you think we feel when you call us ozzies lol

Why not? Everyone else does  :D

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DesertFox

DesertFox

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Posted

Just to clarify, I'm not on a wind up and I'm not personally offended by any of this, as I'm just a bloke from Leicester. But where I live, these words are genuinely offensive. I guess that having your country forcefully invaded, and your entire population bullied and oppressed for a couple of centuries, makes you a bit 'sensitive'. These terms were 'acceptable' in the 1950s, at the same time that words like n*gger were deemed to be a bit of 'banter'. When I arrived here eleven years ago I learnt very quickly that, coming from the other side of the world, I was completely ignorant of these facts.

 

The thing about racism is that you don't get to decide whether a word is offensive, it's whether they cause offense - and these words do cause offense among Native Americans. It's nothing like calling an Australian an Aussie, because that doesn't cause offense. I'm not one of the PC brigade, but neither do I get to make the rules.

 

I just thought you might appreciate knowing that you're being racist, but if casual racism due to ignorance doesn't bother you, go ahead, keep it up. Might as well go back to the 70s and 80s when I was a kid in Leicester, and laughing at people from India for 'smelling funny' because they were all 'curry munchers' - it's exactly the same thing. Or when Leeds fans sing "town full of P*kis" - that's just a bit of banter, right? It's not racist, they're just having a bit of a laugh, so I'm sure you'd all agree that it's absolutely fine - let's all join in next time, it's just a bit of banter!  :rolleyes:

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bovril

bovril

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Posted

Just to clarify, I'm not on a wind up and I'm not personally offended by any of this, as I'm just a bloke from Leicester. But where I live, these words are genuinely offensive. I guess that having your country forcefully invaded, and your entire population bullied and oppressed for a couple of centuries, makes you a bit 'sensitive'. These terms were 'acceptable' in the 1950s, at the same time that words like n*gger were deemed to be a bit of 'banter'. When I arrived here eleven years ago I learnt very quickly that, coming from the other side of the world, I was completely ignorant of these facts.

 

The thing about racism is that you don't get to decide whether a word is offensive, it's whether they cause offense - and these words do cause offense among Native Americans. It's nothing like calling an Australian an Aussie, because that doesn't cause offense. I'm not one of the PC brigade, but neither do I get to make the rules.

 

I just thought you might appreciate knowing that you're being racist, but if casual racism due to ignorance doesn't bother you, go ahead, keep it up. Might as well go back to the 70s and 80s when I was a kid in Leicester, and laughing at people from India for 'smelling funny' because they were all 'curry munchers' - it's exactly the same thing. Or when Leeds fans sing "town full of P*kis" - that's just a bit of banter, right? It's not racist, they're just having a bit of a laugh, so I'm sure you'd all agree that it's absolutely fine - let's all join in next time, it's just a bit of banter!  :rolleyes:

 

But isn't it also if the speaker means to cause offense? I'm pretty sure nobody here was setting out to do so. Like you basically said, it's about the context. Not many posters here live in America and realise the power of these words.

 

Edited to say it seems most people were taking the piss out of Cowboy and Indian film tropes, not Native Americans themselves.

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DesertFox

DesertFox

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Posted

But isn't it also if the speaker means to cause offense? I'm pretty sure nobody here was setting out to do so. Like you basically said, it's about the context. Not many posters here live in America and realise the power of these words.

 

Edited to say it seems most people were taking the piss out of Cowboy and Indian film tropes, not Native Americans themselves.

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make - nobody from Leicester would know that these terms cause offense because we're so far removed from it. I don't believe anyone was trying to cause offense, and as I said, I'm not personally offended as it does't effect me in any way. I'm just trying to point out that these words do cause offense to some people, whether you use them innocently or deliberately provocatively.

 

Let me break it down further. The term Red Indian is a combination of a description of someone's skin colour and an incorrect description of where they are from. It's like calling someone born in Leicester of Sri Lankan grandparents a 'dark-faced P*ki'. Whether you meant it offensively or not, they are not going to appreciate it.

 

As for the term Savages... let's put that into a different context and apply it to a person from Africa. Suddenly that's starting to sound a bit racist, isn't it?

 

I'm just trying to share the benefit of my experience of learning this stuff, as I'm a tad embarrassed to read my fellow Leicester natives being casually racist in such a manner, whether they 'mean it' or not.

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Jace

Jace

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That's exactly the point I'm trying to make - nobody from Leicester would know that these terms cause offense because we're so far removed from it. I don't believe anyone was trying to cause offense, and as I said, I'm not personally offended as it does't effect me in any way. I'm just trying to point out that these words do cause offense to some people, whether you use them innocently or deliberately provocatively.

 

Let me break it down further. The term Red Indian is a combination of a description of someone's skin colour and an incorrect description of where they are from. It's like calling someone born in Leicester of Sri Lankan grandparents a 'dark-faced P*ki'. Whether you meant it offensively or not, they are not going to appreciate it.

 

As for the term Savages... let's put that into a different context and apply it to a person from Africa. Suddenly that's starting to sound a bit racist, isn't it?

 

I'm just trying to share the benefit of my experience of learning this stuff, as I'm a tad embarrassed to read my fellow Leicester natives being casually racist in such a manner, whether they 'mean it' or not.

Thank you for educating us, lets hope not too many native Americans were offended by reading Foxestalk.

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DesertFox

DesertFox

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Please be aware that here in the uk Desertfox, it is not appropriate to knowingly use racist terms even when joking.

Being English, having been born in Leicester and living there until the age of 29, and having had a season ticket at Filbert Street for more than fifteen years, I'm perfectly aware of what goes on 'over there in the UK'. But thanks for your concern.

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DesertFox

DesertFox

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Thank you for educating us, lets hope not too many native Americans were offended by reading Foxestalk.

Yes, very good. Two points:

 

1) you're aware that this is the internet, right? I'm reading this, and I live on what used to be called 'Apache' land (another term that's not used these days as it was given to them by white settlers - it's now known as the Tohono O'odham Nation)

 

2) as long as nobody that will be offended by it reads it, it's OK? A bit like looking over your shoulder to make sure no black people can hear before you tell a n*gger joke? Like I said, I'm not one of the PC brigade and I get as frustrated as anyone else by the bullshit surrounding it, but I do draw the line at racism, which is generally an issue of ignorance.

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Zingari

Zingari

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Posted
Have you considered that British people might not like the idea of being told what's offensive by someone that's chosen the nickname of a former German Army Officer , working for Hitler's NAZI war machine?

I realise it's not meant to be offensive ( unlike the Hitler's military campaign) .

 

Many British lives were lost in North Africa and find your choice to trivialise the name as a little insensitive. Could you change it please?

We all have to consider other peoples feelings 

 

Thank you 

 

edit;

 

just in case , this is not meant to be taken seriously  :thumbup:

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DesertFox

DesertFox

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Posted

 

Have you considered that British people might not like the idea of being told what's offensive by someone that's chosen the nickname of a former German Army Officer , working for Hitler's NAZI war machine?
I realise it's not meant to be offensive ( unlike the Hitler's military campaign) .
 
Many British lives were lost in North Africa and find your choice to trivialise the name as a little insensitive. Could you change it please?
We all have to consider other peoples feelings 
 
Thank you 
 
edit;
 
just in case , this is not meant to be taken seriously  :thumbup:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-footed_fox, common name, Desert Fox. I could change it to white-footed fox if you prefer, but that's bringing colour into it...  ;)

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Strokes

Strokes

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Yes, very good. Two points:

1) you're aware that this is the internet, right? I'm reading this, and I live on what used to be called 'Apache' land (another term that's not used these days as it was given to them by white settlers - it's now known as the Tohono O'odham Nation)

2) as long as nobody that will be offended by it reads it, it's OK? A bit like looking over your shoulder to make sure no black people can hear before you tell a n*gger joke? Like I said, I'm not one of the PC brigade and I get as frustrated as anyone else by the bullshit surrounding it, but I do draw the line at racism, which is generally an issue of ignorance.

You should always check over both shoulders, otherwise you might be left red faced.
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