f' quenelle

[indierich06]

The more I think about it, the more stupid Anelka has been. His defence was a bit pathetic. If he'd just said 'this is an anti-establishment gesture in France' that would have been the end of it. In the end, he's basically just said 'I didn't use this gesture in an anti-semitc way, I was just doing it to support my friend who happens to be a massive anti-semite'.

 

That's like Wayne Rooney doing a Nazi salute and saying 'Oh, that? It wasn't meant in a racist way, I just did it to support my friend Nick Griffin.'

[Kitchandro]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25837998

 

This makes it sound as if people only think it's anti-Semitic because it looks a bit like a Nazi salute. Then they've started using it outside synagogues etc.

 

I've no knowledge of the background of this so no idea whether that's accurate or not.

[Guest MattP]

The more I think about it, the more stupid Anelka has been. His defence was a bit pathetic. If he'd just said 'this is an anti-establishment gesture in France' that would have been the end of it. In the end, he's basically just said 'I didn't use this gesture in an anti-semitc way, I was just doing it to support my friend who happens to be a massive anti-semite'.

 

That's like Wayne Rooney doing a Nazi salute and saying 'Oh, that? It wasn't meant in a racist way, I just did it to support my friend Nick Griffin.'

 

That's pretty much it, Dieudonne is as closely alligned with the far right Front National as you can get in France now, not to mention he has entertained numerous holocaust deniers, the comparison to Griffin is spot on.

 

Again, where on earth is Peter Herbert? You couldn't get him off the news when a white man made anything close to a racial slur be it Roy Hodgson's NASA joke or Suarez's comments.

 

Not a peep from the guy when it's Rio calling someone a Choc Ice or Anelka making camouflaged nazi salutes.

[Vacamion]

It is definitely a hatefully antisemitic gesture:

 

 

 

 

 

 

They should throw the book at Anelka.

[Guest MattP]

It is definitely a hatefully antisemitic gesture:

 

 

 

 

They should throw the book at Anelka.

 

Jesus lol

 

Not right but he's got some balls doing that there!

[Vacamion]

Jesus lol

 

Not right but he's got some balls doing that there!

 

 

When I visited Auschwitz in 1991 I saw two Polish skinheads posing for photos for each other whilst doing Nazi salutes near to the "wall of death" where they used to shoot people...

 

I would say that there must a small but significant number of people who actually go there to gloat or glory in what happened.

[Guest MattP]

When I visited Auschwitz in 1991 I saw two Polish skinheads posing for photos for each other whilst doing Nazi salutes near to the "wall of death" where they used to shoot people...

 

I would say that there must a small but significant number of people who actually go there to gloat or glory in what happened.

 

Yeah I imagine, they had to remove Hitler's parents gravestone as it had become a place of worship to Neo Nazis.

[Voll Blau]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25837998

 

This makes it sound as if people only think it's anti-Semitic because it looks a bit like a Nazi salute. Then they've started using it outside synagogues etc.

 

I've no knowledge of the background of this so no idea whether that's accurate or not.

 

I thought the offensiveness in the gesture lay in the fact it's mocking Jews having to wear armbands in Nazi Germany?

[breadandcheese]

That's like Wayne Rooney doing a Nazi salute and saying 'Oh, that? It wasn't meant in a racist way, I just did it to support my friend Nick Griffin.'

 

I think that's spot on.

 

In many respects, this is worse than Suarez-Evra, because Suarez could claim ignorance that the word he used was acceptable in his home country.  In Anelka's case, he cites Dieudonne as a friend, so can't claim ignorance, that he doesn't know what the man is like.  Anelka's gesture was basically in support of an anti-semite, who's been convicted in France for inciting racial hatred.  There really isn't any defence for it.

[notnow john]

The more I think about it, the more stupid Anelka has been. His defence was a bit pathetic. If he'd just said 'this is an anti-establishment gesture in France' that would have been the end of it. In the end, he's basically just said 'I didn't use this gesture in an anti-semitc way, I was just doing it to support my friend who happens to be a massive anti-semite'.

 

That's like Wayne Rooney doing a Nazi salute and saying 'Oh, that? It wasn't meant in a racist way, I just did it to support my friend Nick Griffin.'

That's just what David Baddeil said last night on Newsnight,almost word for word.

What a coincidence,

[Uncle Albert]

The FA set their standards with Suarez, would expect Anelka to also get an 8 game ban.

[indierich06]

That's just what David Baddeil said last night on Newsnight,almost word for word.

What a coincidence,

 

Yeah, I watched it this morning, totally agree with him.

[Vacamion]

Nasri, too, although he did apologise for it:

 

[Guest MattP]

Do you have to be Muslim to perform it or is it just a coincidence?

[AdamN]

I thought the offensiveness in the gesture lay in the fact it's mocking Jews having to wear armbands in Nazi Germany?

 

That would make more sense than an 'inverted Nazi salute', as surely an inverted salute/symbol would carry a completely opposite meaning to the original? I dare anyone to walk into a redneck town holding an upside-down American flag, for example...

[K1FOX]

Do you have to be Muslim to perform it or is it just a coincidence?

You seem to have a lot of hatred towards Muslims ?

[ADK]

So has anyone told the FA that Nazis killed black people too?

It's like a Welshman calling an Englishman a 'British b@stard'

 

Did they?

 

I think I read somewhere that it was much better to be black in Nazi Germany than it was to be black in the USA at the same time.

[Guest MattP]

You seem to have a lot of hatred towards Muslims ?

Do I? I didn't realise observing the fact Nasri and Anelka follow Islam is defined as hatred, strange definition of the word.

Just remarking the two footballers who have done it are Muslim and considering how small a percentage of PL players are Muslim I'm just wondering if it's specific to them or just a massive coincidence?

[Guest MattP]

Did they?

I think I read somewhere that it was much better to be black in Nazi Germany than it was to be black in the USA at the same time.

Yep, Jesse Owens said he was treated better in Berlin than the USA.

He could eat and share hotels with people from other races for a start.

[Kitchandro]

Yep, Jesse Owens said he was treated better in Berlin than the USA.

He could eat and share hotels with people from other races for a start.

 

I bet he didn't dare use the showers though.

[AndWhat?]

Do you have to be Muslim to perform it or is it just a coincidence?

Breaking news.

Muslims don't like zionists!

[Jean-Francois]

I'm surprised to see that so few non French speaking people swallow the version of a "reverse nazi salute". French is my mother tongue, and the French know better than anyone what is a quenelle.

Virtually all online poll in France show that 1% at most believe that it's a reverse nazi salute. 

First, they have access to the net and can watch old sketch where Dieudonné slide a quenelle in the asshole (fion) of someone with the gesture. Politicians, journalists,zionists, and his favorite target, Francois Hollande, is not even a Jew. He praised a young man from Switzerland who was dying from a cancer but who came to one of his shows and "slided a quenelle"  in "the asshole of fear" near the stage with a gesture.

Since the gesture is popular among the youth, most French know from a son/daughter, niece, whatever, the meaning. It has become a gesture of rebellion against the power gradually. Against political correctness. The power if the socialist government (very unpopular). Catholic activists use it during protests against gay marriages. The youth use it against the media and the lies of journalists. They reject the generation of May 68 and globalization, the EU.

So why Cukierman  from the CRIF/Jewish Congress insist that it's a "reverse nazi salute" from a black man who want to resurrect nazism and its racial theories?

No one of a sane mind in France believe him, but it's also sometimes a gesture of defiance against the "holocaust mania" and the claim that the French people is guilty of something, that criticizing Jewish organizations is the equivalent of praising Hitler (a crime). The ambiguity of the gesture is turning him nut; even if 0.5% of the pictures of quenelles posted on the net (over 50,000) maybe antsemitic, he can't know how many people are doing it because they back Faurisson, ho many are just making an overdose of holocaust, how many do it and are very hostile to the zionist lobby and how many are doing it just to mock the government or political correctness? He can't know, so the easiest solution is to lie and to scare/throw in jail the people who do it.

As for Anelka, he did it to sho his support for Dieudonne because there as a media campaign to crucify him at the same moment.

[indierich06]

 

I'm surprised to see that so few non French speaking people swallow the version of a "reverse nazi salute". French is my mother tongue, and the French know better than anyone what is a quenelle.

Virtually all online poll in France show that 1% at most believe that it's a reverse nazi salute. 

First, they have access to the net and can watch old sketch where Dieudonné slide a quenelle in the asshole (fion) of someone with the gesture. Politicians, journalists,zionists, and his favorite target, Francois Hollande, is not even a Jew. He praised a young man from Switzerland who was dying from a cancer but who came to one of his shows and "slided a quenelle"  in "the asshole of fear" near the stage with a gesture.

Since the gesture is popular among the youth, most French know from a son/daughter, niece, whatever, the meaning. It has become a gesture of rebellion against the power gradually. Against political correctness. The power if the socialist government (very unpopular). Catholic activists use it during protests against gay marriages. The youth use it against the media and the lies of journalists. They reject the generation of May 68 and globalization, the EU.

So why Cukierman  from the CRIF/Jewish Congress insist that it's a "reverse nazi salute" from a black man who want to resurrect nazism and its racial theories?

No one of a sane mind in France believe him, but it's also sometimes a gesture of defiance against the "holocaust mania" and the claim that the French people is guilty of something, that criticizing Jewish organizations is the equivalent of praising Hitler (a crime). The ambiguity of the gesture is turning him nut; even if 0.5% of the pictures of quenelles posted on the net (over 50,000) maybe antsemitic, he can't know how many people are doing it because they back Faurisson, ho many are just making an overdose of holocaust, how many do it and are very hostile to the zionist lobby and how many are doing it just to mock the government or political correctness? He can't know, so the easiest solution is to lie and to scare/throw in jail the people who do it.

As for Anelka, he did it to sho his support for Dieudonne because there as a media campaign to crucify him at the same moment.

 

 

Exactly what I said - there's nothing anti-semitic about the gesture itself, it's just been used by anti-semites, in the same way that it's used by plenty of other different types of people for different reasons.

[Vacamion]

 

 but it's also sometimes a gesture of defiance against the "holocaust mania" and the claim that the French people is guilty of something, that criticizing Jewish organizations is the equivalent of praising Hitler (a crime).

 

 

The fact that you think that genocide of the jews in Europe should be played down (!) and you think the French were innocent of any wrongdoing in WWII (like Vichy police rounding up Jews for the Nazis, for example) probably explains why you don't understand how jewish people might be offended by the gesture.

 

I speak French well enough to have looked through Dieudonne's Facebook page and to have reviewed some of his Youtube clips.   References to the media being "puppets" of hidden forces influenced by jewish intellectuals (Hmmm, where have we seen THAT before?) and the fact that the gesture seems to have originated from and be best supported by the community connected to muslim North Africa do not reassure me that the gesture isn't anti semitic.

 

Look at the photos earlier in this thread of quenelles being posed at Auschwitz and the Anne Frank house.  Taken from "Dieudo United" website.  Innocent youthful rebelliousness, huh?

 

Whilst some kids may be doing the gesture in a "copycat" way without meaning to offend jewish people, Anelka knew well enough that the gesture could be offensive to some people and he should get a 10 game ban.

[BoneDog]

I bet he didn't dare use the showers though.

 

The showers were used for showering people when they arrived at camps. I've heard historians and judges mention no evidence for poison showers. The Soviets built some 'gas chambers' after the war but I thought there was no evidence of death showers used by Germans? Apart from some contradictory (according to historians) and 'technically impossible' witness statements made since the war.

 

The fact that you think that genocide of the jews in Europe should be played down (!) and you think the French were innocent of any wrongdoing in WWII (like Vichy police rounding up Jews for the Nazis, for example) probably explains why you don't understand how jewish people might be offended by the gesture.

 

I speak French well enough to have looked through Dieudonne's Facebook page and to have reviewed some of his Youtube clips.   References to the media being "puppets" of hidden forces influenced by jewish intellectuals (Hmmm, where have we seen THAT before?) and the fact that the gesture seems to have originated from and be best supported by the community connected to muslim North Africa do not reassure me that the gesture isn't anti semitic.

 

Weren't Jews rounded up to be sent to camps the same as Germans were, and just like a million Japanese were rounded up and sent to camps in the US? Concentration camps were common all over the world pre-1930's. The best evidence I've seen for a genocide in German camps is historians saying things like "The genocide didn't happen in the Auschitz camp, it happened in the two farmhouses outside the camp, probably."

 

Nazis and zionists had agreed to send Jews to German camps with a view to sending them abroad (against most German Jews wishes of course, but the zionists didn't care about that, they just wanted their new country which was not possible without a massive, forced, emigration).

 

Have you seen some of the intellectuals speaking in the world media about killing all Germans, and totally destroying Germany from as far back as 1933? You probably haven't as it's not in the WW2 event timelines. It wasn't bullshit. Jewish (or more likely hardcore Zionists who cared not for Jewish people as a whole) intellectuals were talking of destroying Germany way before Hitler rounded up anyone for the camps. German Jews, and even German zionists, were speaking out about the lies in the pre-war propaganda against Germany. Jews were still getting ration vouchers in Germany at the same time as German citizens. There were no extermination orders that any historian can point to even though they have mountains of orders for everything else that went on during the war.

 

Anybody who knows the history of Germany and the propaganda aimed at her in the 5-10 years before WW2 know the reasons that Hitler was so popular in 1933. Germany was ruined at that time and the vultures were making their intentions for the country very clear in world media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0XyosEza8

 

Some of you sound like you still believe Hoss's 'confession' and other evidence at the Nuremberg trials! Travesty.