Captain... Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 With Moyes' struggles filling Alex Ferguson's whiskey soaked boots, and reading this article about Wilf McGuinness: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26630276 It got me thinking who has successfully replaced a legend, I'm ignoring Liverpool's run of Shankley, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish as that was an exceptional period. Thinking of us, Taylor after O'Neill, Mclintock after Bloomfield, O'Farrell after Gillies, all failed, depending on if you class Wallace as a legend or not, he didn't go out on a high us being back in the second division it wasn't such a tough job for Milne to replace him. What about other clubs, Avram Grant replacing Mourinho springs to mind, you could say Martinez replacing Moyes is an example of someone being successful, but was Moyes a legend or just a decent long serving manager? Any other examples?
Alf Bentley Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 Pearson replaces Pearson after a brief inter-regnum? I'm sure there must be a few examples at continental clubs and with international teams (Mick McCarthy did alright following Jack Charlton for Republic of Ireland). Can't think of many at English club level...and there are a few disasters: - Clough replacing Revie at Leeds - Revie replacing Ramsey (after a caretaker) for England
Dan Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 I still don't think the fact he was replacing Ferguson is what's made him cock it up so much. What's made him cock it up is actually him not being up to managing a top club, based on his style of play and his panicky signings.
Raj Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 Should ManUre really have enlisted a manager who's never won anything? Plus surely unheard of is the exiting manager choosing incoming manager!!!
Guest MattP Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 The appointment was ridiculous. Fergie's mate, you don't go into a job like that having won what Moyes had and never had an champions league experience. Guardiola won't have that problem at Bayern. Old whiskey face did leave him a right sack of shit though.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 Moyes getting rid of Maulensteen, Steel and Phelan was the worst thing he did, then signing Fellaini for £27.5 million.
Captain... Posted 19 March 2014 Author Posted 19 March 2014 Should ManUre really have enlisted a manager who's never won anything? Plus surely unheard of is the exiting manager choosing incoming manager!!! But this is a problem with English football, so few managers have actually won something as it is dominated by the big 3, the only other real option was Mourinho, no ex Man City or Liverpool manager would go, maybe Hughes, I doubt they would take a punt on Di Matteo, Champions league winner, maybe Ancellotti was a possibility, but he went to Madrid instead. So either an a foreign man with little PL experience but who has won lots of things, Capello? Sven? Or a successful EPL manager who hasn't won anything? They could bring back Shteve or Bruce, but who were the other likely candidates?
Guest MattP Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 But this is a problem with English football, so few managers have actually won something as it is dominated by the big 3, the only other real option was Mourinho, no ex Man City or Liverpool manager would go, maybe Hughes, I doubt they would take a punt on Di Matteo, Champions league winner, maybe Ancellotti was a possibility, but he went to Madrid instead. So either an a foreign man with little PL experience but who has won lots of things, Capello? Sven? Or a successful EPL manager who hasn't won anything? They could bring back Shteve or Bruce, but who were the other likely candidates? Klopp or Simeone? Obviously not got a cabinet full, but clearly both brilliant young managers.
Uncle Albert Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 But this is a problem with English football, so few managers have actually won something as it is dominated by the big 3, the only other real option was Mourinho, no ex Man City or Liverpool manager would go, maybe Hughes, I doubt they would take a punt on Di Matteo, Champions league winner, maybe Ancellotti was a possibility, but he went to Madrid instead. So either an a foreign man with little PL experience but who has won lots of things, Capello? Sven? Or a successful EPL manager who hasn't won anything? They could bring back Shteve or Bruce, but who were the other likely candidates? Are you talking about the Everton job or the Man United job? Hughes, Di Matteo and Sven? Oh and there is one ex Liverpool manager who would manage them.. Roy the Boy and I don't mean Roy Evans.
One Legged Beaver Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 Benitez didn't do too bad a job at replacing Di Matteo for a short while, especially considering the grief he was given.
davieG Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 I wouldn't have classed O'Farrell as a failure, he took over an already 'failing team' due to management disputes and illness re Gillies and although we were inevitably relegated got us to a Wembley FA Cup final. The following season we just missed promotion finishing 3rd and were then promoted the next year as Champions when he was enticed away by Man Utd. Sadly he suffered the same fate as McGuinness following an interfering Busby who'd returned to the management of MU following McGuinness's 'failure'. at least that's how I remember it.
Raj Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 But this is a problem with English football, so few managers have actually won something as it is dominated by the big 3, the only other real option was Mourinho, no ex Man City or Liverpool manager would go, maybe Hughes, I doubt they would take a punt on Di Matteo, Champions league winner, maybe Ancellotti was a possibility, but he went to Madrid instead. So either an a foreign man with little PL experience but who has won lots of things, Capello? Sven? Or a successful EPL manager who hasn't won anything? They could bring back Shteve or Bruce, but who were the other likely candidates? how about the man who replaced Moyes at Everton ...Martinez?Won the FA cup...fair enough got Wigan relegated though...but we all know Wigan did well to last that long there anyway. He may not be a "big"name but Im sure Evertonians are alot happier at the moment!!!
Captain... Posted 19 March 2014 Author Posted 19 March 2014 Klopp or Simeone? Obviously not got a cabinet full, but clearly both brilliant young managers. Have you been reading the Mirror Matt: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/jurgen-klopp-should-been-manchester-3259586 Would Klopp have gone? Would he be successful any where else? Still risk, could easily have been another AVB, it is only in hindsight that Moyes looks such a bad decision, it's amazing to see the pictures of him from the Liverpool game, he ages about 10 years ends up looking like a deranged Malcolm Tucker at the end of the last series of the Thick of it. Simeone was probably even more of a risk than Klopp, agains hindsight is a wonderful thing, god knows what either of them would have made of the squad they would have inherited. Are you talking about the Everton job or the Man United job? Hughes, Di Matteo and Sven? But this my point, looking for a manager who has won lots, isn't easy, there weren't many options available to them. They shouldn't have picked Moyes purely on Bacon face's recomendation, but I doubt there was a long queue of managers wanting to take over from a "living legend" with a seriously over performing squad.
Captain... Posted 19 March 2014 Author Posted 19 March 2014 I wouldn't have classed O'Farrell as a failure, he took over an already 'failing team' due to management disputes and illness re Gillies and although we were inevitably relegated got us to a Wembley FA Cup final. The following season we just missed promotion finishing 3rd and were then promoted the next year as Champions when he was enticed away by Man Utd. Sadly he suffered the same fate as McGuinness following an interfering Busby who'd returned to the management of MU following McGuinness's 'failure'. at least that's how I remember it. Fair enough was before my time, was mainly going on the stature of Gillies as a great manager, and O'Farrell's subsequent relegation. how about the man who replaced Moyes at Everton ...Martinez? Won the FA cup...fair enough got Wigan relegated though...but we all know Wigan did well to last that long there anyway. He may not be a "big"name but Im sure Evertonians are alot happier at the moment!!! In hindsight was possibly a better call, but at the time could you really have seen Martinez going to United.
Raj Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 Fair enough was before my time, was mainly going on the stature of Gillies as a great manager, and O'Farrell's subsequent relegation. In hindsight was possibly a better call, but at the time could you really have seen Martinez going to United. no fair comment.
Langston Posted 19 March 2014 Posted 19 March 2014 He's definitely doing a poor job but alot has to be said for what he inherited. I think Yanited will give him another season.
Captain... Posted 19 March 2014 Author Posted 19 March 2014 Just watching them against Olympiakos, trying to shield the ball in the corner from the Greeks, how the mighty have fallen.
OzFox Posted 20 March 2014 Posted 20 March 2014 Frank Clark did alright after replacing Clough (not that Clough exactly went out on a high). The Trees won automatic promotion under Clark, and finished third in the top flight the following year.
Churchill Posted 20 March 2014 Posted 20 March 2014 I think United wanted to stick with a British manager and not follow suit like Chelsea Man City etc... But as we have all seen it has not worked out very well, he made a big mistake in clearing out the backroom staff which has not helped him! I think they will give him another season see how he does, O'Neill would of been a good option for them if he had not taken the ROI job. No offence to Liverpool here but I can see United following the same path they did and not winning the title for a while now.
Dan Posted 20 March 2014 Posted 20 March 2014 Just watching them against Olympiakos, trying to shield the ball in the corner from the Greeks, how the mighty have fallen. They got away with it last night. I don't think I will ever get my head around sitting back once you're ahead. Sit back, invite trouble and the chances are they'll break through eventually if they're good enough (Olympiakos weren't) - or stick at what's been good enough to send you three goals ahead on the night and go for more, secure it. OK there's no guarantee you won't concede but I don't think the chances are lowered as much as people think by sitting back. They'll be absolutely toyed with in the quarters no matter who they get. Last night papered over the cracks.
Langston Posted 20 March 2014 Posted 20 March 2014 I hope they get Real and get absolutely crucified.
Guest Col city fan Posted 21 March 2014 Posted 21 March 2014 Hands up then.. which of you currently knocking Moyes DIDN'T think he was the right choice at the time? I did.. more importantly so did Sir Alex. It was always gonna be difficult following in Ferguson's footsteps and he got out at EXACTLY the right time.. the squad needed/needs rebuilding. I think Moyes will stay and will turn it around.. if he's given time (ring any bells?)...
Guest MattP Posted 21 March 2014 Posted 21 March 2014 Hands up then.. which of you currently knocking Moyes DIDN'T think he was the right choice at the time? I did.. more importantly so did Sir Alex. It was always gonna be difficult following in Ferguson's footsteps and he got out at EXACTLY the right time.. the squad needed/needs rebuilding. I think Moyes will stay and will turn it around.. if he's given time (ring any bells?)... I wasn't sure on the actual appointment, I said it was irresponsible and ridiculous though to allow the current manager to choose who he wanted, that's a job for the board of directors and to let a man who was already clearly losing his marbles like Fergie was pick his mate to take the job wasn't right. No other business other than football could that happen. Will Moyes get the time? Probably, will he turn it around? I doubt it, I thought ht did a fantastic job at everton but watching them under Martinez I'm not wondering if that was the case. Spot on about the shit Fergie left him. Appalling set of young players.
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