dmayne7

Arguably harder in some ways as we pushed high up and he has several last ditch efforts to deal with. Obviously didn't have to deal with much put into the box which is the real art of being a centre back. How embarrassing for Jannik 'Beckenbauer' Vestergaard and Wout 'sideshow Bob' Faes that they are shown up by a maligned Centre mid playing there.

Although he was playing at CB, we actually got to see some ok passing from Skipp so he should absolutely be in that role now, on his own. He won't be as good on the ball but he'll give us more security and actually tries. If you think about how crap Skipp has been, that says everything about Winks in terms of his performances and attitude.

Their 3rd was a great strike but you cannot give it any credit from our perspective as it was a carbon copy of the second. Complete lack of desire from players to get out and close the ball down. That's unacceptable. It's easy to say they aren't trying (clearly found more energy in the second), but I don't think you can put that down to anything else apart from a lack of effort in the first. I want to be in a position to give a manager time and cut him some slack, but yet again, another manager that has blown all the mitigations given to him so he's only got himself to blame (even if the players are really at fault)

You must be thick. Where did I say it was good enough or a moral victory? Absolutely nowhere. Quite the opposite in fact. People like you are so overly emotional so latch on to one small part of broader point.

Again, read what I actually said.

I clearly said that overall it's not acceptable. Can you people not do a simple bit of comprehension?

Only 4 mins

It would be more small minded to not acknowledge it's been a brilliant 45 mins. Now that doesn't excuse how pathetic (again) that first 45 was and it doesn't undo what a shocking result it is. But to completely ignore it, is silly.

Never. Otherwise we'd be 20 points clear at the top

People saying he's been decent, he's been bloody fantastic today. Better than any CBs we've used this season which is embarrassing. Of course he's been a shocking signing so far but the fact he tries puts him miles ahead of somebody like Winks

Get Monga on for BDR. Can mix up the front line but you're getting somebody who can make something happen out of nothing

You obviously can't play with this is intensity for 90 mins but the fact it's taken a shambles for us to do so is so frustrating.

As crap as he is, Skipp is a better choice purely because he at least tries. Winks had a couple of great cameos earlier in the season but he's been absolutely woeful (somehow worse than Skipp) and he doesn't care in the slightest. People harp on about resetting the squad but they're still happy for these complete mercenaries to play. Don't get it. Not like thr current defence were there are actually no alternatives for this game.

Fatawu needs dropping based on attitude but the likes of Winks and Vestergaard don't? I give up with our fans sometimes

He's toilet but not like Vestergaard or Hamza were much better yesterday. If fit, it should be Okoli and Nelson for the rest of the season

Yet another game goes by where other players get pelters (rightfully so) but Vestergaard seems to escape the ire. The fact he's been virtual ever present and we're so poor says a lot. Shouldn't be picked again

Does that actual bother you? Aren't you more concerned with how shite we are?

He's been absolutely dreadful this season. Couple of good cameo appearances shouldn't mask that and when combined with his behaviour, he's one of a few that should never play again

*Third Actually, could have been a red. Certainly based on today's standard

His best asset was always his decision making, at least in terms of a young player. Completely lost it. Needs to be benched for a couple of games.

Are you actually serious? You don't think the first one from Downes was a yellow? He's so ridiculously late to the ball and wipes out Vestergaard. And the point is, it's about consistency. If you're booking our players for fouls on breakaways, then you should absolutely be booking their players for late/reckless tackles. It's like we're only allowed to be crap or the ref is. They're not mutually exclusive. We've been pathetic and deserve to be smashed, but whilst I'm sure he's not actually corrupt, Ward's performance has deserved no other description

We've been cack but his performance has been beyond awful

No. He didn't get a straight red for being crap. He's been isolated from minute 1 and he only got the first yellow because he was trying to bail out his crap teammates

You can. Why does Downes get away with 2 bad fouls in the same part of the pitch with not even a yellow? Was absolutely a booking for Aluko but not if you don't give either for Downes. He should probably have been sent off for 2 yellow offences in a few seconds, certainly based on what he wants to give against us.

Yeah it was a blatant yellow. But so were the 3 fouls from Downes, 5 seconds apart in the same part of the pitch. You think that's acceptable refereeing do you? You give one, you have to give the others. Stop using how shit we are to mask abysmal officiating.