honeybradger

Why do we need to sign players? Would rather sign no one than have a similar transfer window to last summer's one. Would people signing Michael Keane and Josh Brownhill really make people happier?

Honourable mention to Ayoze Perez in the West Ham 4-1 loss in 2021. Most of the fans weren't even mad that he got a red 40 minutes in, they were just relieved that he came off the pitch after looking like bambi on ice.

Fair enough you've got me there

Not true, just focusing on the most recent sample size and individual performances that i have watched recently rather than basing it off a scoresheet from a game that i dont think i watched. With the players being so young a year of development can make a significant difference as well. Let's be honest between the two of us neither of us know how our talents played in the Johnston paint game, maybe they were good and were let down by the others, maybe they struggled individually. The scoresheet implies that they were generally not up to the task but it's not as valuable of a way to evaluate the players' abilities as actually watching the match. The pre season games however we have all watched recently in full so we reliably see how the young players compare to our established first team players and senior opposition with the level they have right now. Overall they compare favourably to both our established players and opposition. I do not want us to have experience in the team at the cost of performance. This Skipp and Winks midfield is honking and is a train crash that I can see coming a mile away if we start the season with it, which i suspect we will. The first halves of the OHL game and the game last night were a massive drag mainly because of the clunkiness in the middle (and our inability to attack down the right) and were only saved entertainment wise by Monga's brilliance. Personally I dont mind Ndidi, Soumare or Pereira adding a bit of experience in the middle and maybe Winks as well as long as he's not partnered with Skipp. This is mainly because Ndidi and Soumare offer physical traits that our younger players dont have but it comes at the drawback of neither of them being good passers. Still I think our best midfield has El Khannouss playing deeper as an 8 and Alves or Page in the 10 role. El Khannous is our best player at progressing the ball up the pitch and also has the physical traits to play deeper and protect the back line. Alves and Page seem more suited to unlocking defenses than El Khannous who doesnt seem like a natural attacking midfielder to me, i dont know why we keep on isolating him by playing him there. Similarly I cant see the reason for playing Coady and Faes for experience if they are not good enough and also lack composure which you don't want to be around as a youngster (Faes).The times we saw Nelson and Aluko this pre season were like a breath of fresh air. Nelson similar to Faes is proactive in defending but unlike Faes he actually comes away with the ball more often than not if he goes for it. Coady is a nothing player who often times doesnt get close enough to attackers to even attempt to defend, compare that to Aluko who has the agility to mop up attackers running behind at one end and crash the box with a piece of skill leading to a goal at the other end and who was generally our most impressive defender this pre season before not getting on the pitch the other day. I dont mind Okoli playing and whilst Vestergaard was decent the other day I always get flashbacks to players running behind him with ease over the years so would rather we phase him out this season. I dont think i have to explain why Mcateer being potentially preferred on the right over Evans or Alves worries me, he has a great mentality but often time feels like a deadweight with him struggling to make anything happen on the right. Im not bothered by Ayew being our starting striker, I would prefer Evans but Ayew may be our best option for now with Evans hopefully taking over by the end of the season.

Personally think we should evaluate players based on how they play in pre season rather than how they played in the Johnston paint trophy a year ago. If youre using one off cup matches then you could argue the likes of Maddison and Jonny Evans werent ready for the PL in 2019 when we went out in the league cup to Newport County or Mahrez and Vardy weren't ready for the Pl when we went out in the league cup to Hull City in 15/16. It feels like our fanbase are coming up with reasons to not trust our young players despite the obvious quality in their performances. Based on the eye test Page, Evans, Aluko, Alves etc are among our better players despite their age. Not only are they gaining hype for being young and already being in the mix, but they are actually backing it up on the pitch as well. If we are going to do well in the division next season we need to be playing the best players available, based on the first half the other day we are going to have a very rough time if we start the season with Winks and Skipp, who are bypassed easily and do not progress the ball well. Mcateer as well can't seem to get past a player yet is somehow considered more ready than Evans and Alves who excited multiple times in their brief cameos the other day. Aluko's ability to quickly carry the ball out from the defence is also a highly valuable trait that should not be overlooked and we saw it unlock the opposition's defence a couple times this pre season. How are players like Coady and Faes (Vestergaard did well the other day i will begrudgingly admit) considered more ready to start for us next season despite lacking the qualities required to progress the ball from the back and who are also too shaky in defence to justify this lack of quality.

Strongly agree, our downfall as a club began in the 2019/2020 season where we accepted abject performances at the end of the season because we punched well above our weight in the first half of the season and were in the top 6. Then those kind of performances where the players dont apply themselves properly became normalised and we are where we are now.

I think if you look past Evan's age and look at his game intelligence, technical ability and finishing then you will find he is more than ready if given a run of games.

Jake Evans is the heir to vardy. Hopefully he gets some more minutes as striker as he's been put out on the wing recently.

This lineup would be a lot of fun and what I would go with against Wednesday. Jakub Pereira Aluko Nelson Thomas Page El Khannouss Fatawu Alves Monga Mavididi/Evans (Don't say that midfield gets run through because the alternative is Winks and Skipp)

You are being too optimistic, there's still a strong chance that we mostly see the same old names this coming season with the young players only getting cameos. I won't be convinced until our last pre season game where we will see if the academy players are favoured or if we start with a similar XI as we did today.

He's as good if not better despite being younger. The only reason those two are preferred is because of seniority, not performance. It's BS really.

This is just a fantasy sadly. We will start with all the crappy players come the start of the season.

Alves is more suited to being a 10 than El Khannous, El Khannous is more of an 8.

Monga is our best player, need to start him as much as possible within his limits as a 16 year old.

Alves > mcateer

The toxicity is valid, we have seen the club's on pitch performance collapse over the last few years. This 'clean sheet' rubbish however is not valid and will massively hold the back in the long term. We need to shift the bad ones, not try to keep making them work in vain.

You say that like he didn't score 9 PL goals and assist 4 last season in a terrible team. Yes he missed some sitters but that also shows that he still has the ability to be one step ahead of PL level defenders, let alone championship ones. Vardy being one of the top scorers in the championship next season if he came back would be a realistic expectation. He's still one of the best options in the market for us. I wouldnt be surprised if he goes elsewhere and does well whilst our new striker is written off by Christmas.

Who else would we get? Danny Ings? Evan Ferguson on loan? I've seen suggestions of Agmeyang on here (not good) or Kroupi Jr on loan (not happening). Realistically one more year of Vardy might still be our best option if we were to sign someone, although im happy with Evans as our starter and Ayew, Daka or a false 9 as backup.

So you agree that the ideal situation is to sack them off, at least we can agree on that. Let's not be condescending, what i am proposing is not only acheivable in a video game, we currently have plenty of chances to reshape our squad into a young exciting team that can gain promotion AND look to establish ourselves in the PL further down the line. No 18 year old Brazilian wonderkids needed. For reference the last time we were in the championship we missed a massive opportunity playing Faes, Vestergaard and Coady ahead of Nelson and paid the price wasting another year with those 3 at the back whilst Nelson had to go on loan to gain the experience he should've had the season before with us. Hopefully we don't make that same mistake again. Here's my solution: rather than giving the old tossers 'clean sheets' and letting them back into the fold like nothing ever happened we should at the very least keep these players at arms length. We should give players like Nelson, Aluko and Okoli opportunities to stake their place as first choice defenders ahead of Vestergaard, Faes, Coady (ideally with the number of centrebacks we have we can just leave vestergaard at home). We're lighter in midfield so it will be harder to keep Winks out but let's at least give Page a fair chance to stake his claim as one of our first choice midfielders. Persisting with these sorts of players for too long is exactly what has gotten us into this mess whilst the likes of Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth have looked to the continent for younger players on cheaper wages with less experience and reaped the reward. Yes we might get a short term payoff playing the safe game trying to gain promotion with known quantities but in the long term we are just going to keep falling further and further behind. If youre Monga, Page, Aluko, Evans, Alves, Nelson youre going to be looking at this championship season coming up and thinking 'if we're not not breaking through here now when will we ever?' and move on elsewhere for opportunities. Personally I value these players more for our long term prospects than I do promotion.

Look you've clearly made that Championship winning side your Roman Empire, which is fine I guess but you cannot ignore how those same players let us down last season and in particular the terrible performance of those two. They are both on good PL wages but are clearly only good enough for a championship promotion push. It would be fine if they were earning lower wages appropriate for their level as players but they're not. For example Maxime Lopez who is identical to Winks as a player is on £10k a week at Paris FC, for reference winks is on £70k a week. You also cannot ignore the fact that those two were frozen out by our manager last season, say what you want about Van Nistelrooy as a manager but he was elite as a player and knows when players have the right mentality and Winks and Vestergaard did not fit into that standard.

We got massively burned last season by giving Vestergaard and Faes a clean sheet under Maresca. We cannot make that mistake again, that Everton game last season should be the last competitive game that Winks and Vestergaard have in this shirt, disgraceful performance from the both of them. Two very highly paid experienced players completely switched off in an important game. Edit: in summary we will die a slow death if we keep giving poor players on extortionate wages clean sheets. If they havent performed in the past they're unlikely to perform for us in the future, shift them at any opportunity and rebuild with younger players on lower wages that hopefully will not keep letting us down like our current lot do.

How Ayew has earned a reputation as a player with good holdup play i have no idea. He usually slows down play looking for the foul or passes backwards killing the move. Would much rather Jake Evans in that position, against Pourtsmouth he was very good at collecting the ball deeper and looking to distribute it to the wings. Very underrated player on here.

Winks the same player who hasnt looked bothered since we lost Enzo? Not the kind of personality we want to platform within the club.

Championship is terrible quality wise if you compare it to top flights in other countries. The best teams in that league are pushovers in the PL and midtable and lower championship sides are pushovers for the teams at the top. The best teams in Eredivisie and Primiera league give top 6 teams a run for their money and the top 4/5 in the Belgian league are midtable PL quality. Also have we not just seen Winks, Mavididi and even Fatawu struggle significantly at PL level? I dont think on the basis of their performances last year that you could argue they belong at that level.

Bobby Reid played in a dominant Fulham side and averaged 7 goals a season. His only 20 g+a season in the championship was 8 years ago.