USA 2016 Presidential Election Thread

[Detroit Blues]

Apologies, recent history.

 

Does George W. Bush not count? Start of the Iraq war. Federal Hurricane Katrina assistance (or lack thereof). Tax cuts while increasing spending leading to all time Federal debt highs. Patriot act. Federally sponsored torture.

 

I thought the brit's would hate him for dragging Tony Blair with him to Iraq. Is obama really that unpopular over there? I know he's obviously polarizing in America.

[Guest MattP]

When I said weak I mean in a military sense, I doubt North Korea, Russia or Iran would have behaved in the same way had GWB still been in charge.

Obama is very popular over here. He gets a great press whatever he does.

[MC Prussian]

Why does a US president have to be strong and forceful in a military sense out of all attributes?

I do agree that being the head of the State comes with responsibility with regards to ensuring safety in the world, but surely at one point you've got to focus on internal matters, too. Welfare, education, social security, infrastructure, transportation, etc. You visit the States and go non-touristy places and realize what a shattered country it has become.

But the army influence is strong. And so is lobbyism.

[Guest MattP]

Because the USA is the biggest military force in the World.

Would you really be comfortable if Sanders did become president and the two major military powers in our current World were Russia and China?

[MC Prussian]

Because the USA is the biggest military force in the World.

Would you really be comfortable if Sanders did become president and the two major military powers in our current World were Russia and China?

 

What are you so afraid of exactly?

Who says that it wouldn't work out? Russia has always been a force to be reckoned with and shouldn't be ridiculed and China are turning the tide and taking the USA's and Japan's place when it comes to investment in Europe, the Near East and Africa.

 

We ought to collaborate, not create antagonists for antagonists' sake.

 

The US are skint, have been for decades. The only reason they're still afloat and near almighty is because the Federal Reserve Bank is printing Dollars like crazy at a 0% interest rate.

 

Don't forget that at one point, India will also come into play.

The world is changing, always has. As individuals, we're just rather slow when it comes to adapting. But eventually, we do. Evolution says so. I have hope.

[Guest MattP]

What am I afraid of? Well Russia has already started to redraw the World's borders through force. They are also now ploughing through Syria with an intention that seems to be leaving the World a choice between Assad control or ISIS control.

As for China, they are the new superpower and have done and are doing appalling things to many people, they are also the only ally of North Korea and a militarily dominant China brings them to the World table with a nuclear weapon.

It's an unfashionable opinion and the US is far from perfect but I like the idea of the dominant superbowl being one that promote and upholds tolerant Western values.

I don't think anyone has really considered what the alternative could be, we are starting to make the mistakes that have led to catastrophic situations in the past. Appeasement of brutally strong militaries never ends well.

[Guest MattP]

I admire anyone who has hope though in this current World so fair play.

But the Bernie Sanders "look away and it will vanish" attitude isn't one I have any confidence with. We tried that in the 30's.

[MC Prussian]

What am I afraid of? Well Russia has already started to redraw the World's borders through force. They are also now ploughing through Syria with an intention that seems to be leaving the World a choice between Assad control or ISIS control.

As for China, they are the new superpower and have done and are doing appalling things to many people, they are also the only ally of North Korea and a militarily dominant China brings them to the World table with a nuclear weapon.

It's an unfashionable opinion and the US is far from perfect but I like the idea of the dominant superbowl being one that promote and upholds tolerant Western values.

I don't think anyone has really considered what the alternative could be, we are starting to make the mistakes that have led to catastrophic situations in the past. Appeasement of brutally strong militaries never ends well.

 

The Krim and Eastern Ukraine have always been predominantly Russian or with affinity/ties towards/with Russia. Look at it from another perspective - why would the West want to intervene in the Ukraine? In order to protect and uphold democracy? Or maybe it's because of all that fertile land in the area and geopolitics. Make a guess.

 

As for the support of Syria, there's a whole lot of other countries involved in terms of weapon shipments: Germany, France, the US, Israel... heck, even Switzerland!

Who can blame Russia for trying to add a bit of counterbalance?

 

Well, I suppose you're right about China and the Chinese military being cruel - but what about Guantanamo or using drones to bomb a bombed-out, dry and poor place like Afghanistan? What about collateral damage? There isn't just black and white, there's a lot of grey.

 

China's not the only ally of North Korea, Russia still has some influence. And there's other nations capable of launching a nuclear missile, as well: India, Pakistan, Iran, Israel...

 

The US don't uphold Western values, don't make me laugh. They are in for the cash and the influence just like any other superpower. If at all, we ought to uphold human values, but which nation would sacrifice profit for that, I may ask you?

 

EDIT: Interesting debate here, but I'm afraid we're digressing...

[Guest MattP]

We are, probably best to leave it at that but I'd advose anyone to be very careful about thinking a Chinese and Russia dominated World would bring about anything but serious conflict.

 

The US do uphold decent Western values, I don't really understand how anyone can argue with that, go to America and set up a gay pride march, a different religion, criticise the government in the street, protest - then go to Russia or China and do any of those things, I guarantee which country you'll then believe holds up and defends the values we should all want.

 

In the case of Russia what is happening now is quite surreal, they are actually bombing civilians in Syria with intent and no one has anything to say about it. I don't get it. Realpolitik only seems to be a crime when it's the West engaging in it.

[Guest]

Because the USA is the biggest military force in the World.

Would you really be comfortable if Sanders did become president and the two major military powers in our current World were Russia and China?

 

And you'd be comfortable with a right wing looney in charge?

 

I don't see why the President has to be a war monger.

 

Obama has been good for the USA and the world. 

[leicsmac]

With respect to foreign policy and domestic issues, I think it comes down to the Russians and Chinese being bastards and well-knowing it (with no pretence to that the groups they marginalise and persecute that it's being done 'in their own interest'), whereas a lot of the Western nations sugarcoat the horrific shit they do with the whole 'making a better World' spiel dressed up as moral superiority.

 

At least with the Chinese and the Russians the brutality you're getting is 100% honest and clearly defined as the result of being either bigger, stronger or nastier than the other guy, rather than 'better'.

 

Of course though, be gay in Russia and be in any way critical of the state in China and you're probably going to be in for far more terrible stuff happening to you than if you were or did either in the US. The US, as a whole, is at least open to the idea of tolerance. All the same, there are still a great many places in the US where I most definitely wouldn't want to run a gay pride march or be Muslim, for instance.

[Guest MattP]

And you'd be comfortable with a right wing looney in charge?

 

I don't see why the President has to be a war monger.

 

Obama has been good for the USA and the world. 

 

I think it's far, far too early to tell if that is the case. For us in Europe it's abviously great, but for others across the World I'm not so sure.

[Detroit Blues]

From a purely selfish point of view, the US needs to dial back the defense spending and remove the war hawks from our political machine. So many Republicans are just itching to find a reason to go to war with Iran or North Korea. You have to realize that the defense industry is a big business in the US, and many connected people in Washington stand to profit from it.

 

So while the US Government is spending 2 billion dollars to produce a stealth bomber, the US taxpayer picks up the bill. Instead of enjoying universal healthcare, or subsidizing the cost of public colleges and universities like other first world countries, we produce military technology that keeps the US and her allies safe. Countries around the world can afford to spend less on their own defense knowing that the US will come to save the day if they are ever at serious risk. 

 

That's why it irks me whenever people around the world weigh in on what America should do with it's military (not anyone here specifically). They enjoy the fringe benefits that we provide, but do not endure the domestic consequences that is associated with the cost of maintaining our military budget. 

 

I think it's about time we had a political candidate like Bernie Sanders say "slow down" on the military spending. How can we justify spending 2 billion dollars on building another stealth bomber when it costs $80,000-100,000 to attend a public 4 year university. How do we justify building another fleet of tanks when tens of millions of Americans live without health insurance. We need to focus our spending on domestic programs and worry less about the rest of the world. Even if we spent half as much on defense as we do now, we would still be out spending China by $170 billion and Russia by $220 billion.

[Guest]

From a purely selfish point of view, the US needs to dial back the defense spending and remove the war hawks from our political machine. So many Republicans are just itching to find a reason to go to war with Iran or North Korea. You have to realize that the defense industry is a big business in the US, and many connected people in Washington stand to profit from it.

 

So while the US Government is spending 2 billion dollars to produce a stealth bomber, the US taxpayer picks up the bill. Instead of enjoying universal healthcare, or subsidizing the cost of public colleges and universities like other first world countries, we produce military technology that keeps the US and her allies safe. Countries around the world can afford to spend less on their own defense knowing that the US will come to save the day if they are ever at serious risk. 

 

That's why it irks me whenever people around the world weigh in on what America should do with it's military (not anyone here specifically). They enjoy the fringe benefits that we provide, but do not endure the domestic consequences that is associated with the cost of maintaining our military budget. 

 

I think it's about time we had a political candidate like Bernie Sanders say "slow down" on the military spending. How can we justify spending 2 billion dollars on building another stealth bomber when it costs $80,000-100,000 to attend a public 4 year university. How do we justify building another fleet of tanks when tens of millions of Americans live without health insurance. We need to focus our spending on domestic programs and worry less about the rest of the world. Even if we spent half as much on defense as we do now, we would still be out spending China by $170 billion and Russia by $220 billion.

 

Great post.

[Guest MattP]

Good post DB, enjoyed it and totally understand a country that wants to look after itself first.

If you want to focus on domestic spending then that's fine, it does seem a tad selfish though.

The World is heading for a pretty turbulent period, in 50 years I hope we don't look back and regret we didn't have a strong America.

[Guest]

Good post DB, enjoyed it and totally understand a country that wants to look after itself first.

If you want to focus on domestic spending then that's fine, it does seem a tad selfish though.

The World is heading for a pretty turbulent period, in 50 years I hope we don't look back and regret we didn't have a strong America.

 

Now that is funny.

 

Wouldn't it be more likely you look back and regret a weak UK or regret an extreme IS?

[leicsmac]

Good post DB, enjoyed it and totally understand a country that wants to look after itself first.

If you want to focus on domestic spending then that's fine, it does seem a tad selfish though.

The World is heading for a pretty turbulent period, in 50 years I hope we don't look back and regret we didn't have a strong America.

 

I don't think it will be any more turbulent than what's come before. I mean, in the last century we've had two world wars and a global depression in the middle of them, followed by another 40-ish years of the two major superpowers threatening to (and having the ability to) blow up the entire world. 

 

It's only been in the last couple of decades that there's been at least a reasonable amount of peaceful cooperation between the leading nations, and though they might snipe at each other, I think the state of detente is going to hold, at least for the time being - unless there's some other kind of external crisis that ends up pitting them directly against each other. There's no real reason, right now, for the big boys to really want to piss each other off in a meaningful, this-means-war way, despite all the posturing the Americans, Russians and Chinese all make. 

 

Also, because the global threat has receded, we now seem to overstate some threats posed by various human groups while ignoring ones involving the Earth itself that could end up being much much more of a problem in the long term. We seem to like our boogeymen human-shaped...which is a shame because once you chop open a human of pretty much any skin colour or nationality, you'll find that they're pretty much the same. 

[Guest MattP]

I don't think it will be any more turbulent than what's come before. I mean, in the last century we've had two world wars and a global depression in the middle of them, followed by another 40-ish years of the two major superpowers threatening to (and having the ability to) blow up the entire world. 

 

It's only been in the last couple of decades that there's been at least a reasonable amount of peaceful cooperation between the leading nations, and though they might snipe at each other, I think the state of detente is going to hold, at least for the time being - unless there's some other kind of external crisis that ends up pitting them directly against each other. There's no real reason, right now, for the big boys to really want to piss each other off in a meaningful, this-means-war way, despite all the posturing the Americans, Russians and Chinese all make. 

 

Also, because the global threat has receded, we now seem to overstate some threats posed by various human groups while ignoring ones involving the Earth itself that could end up being much much more of a problem in the long term. We seem to like our boogeymen human-shaped...which is a shame because once you chop open a human of pretty much any skin colour or nationality, you'll find that they're pretty much the same. 

 

The first half of the last century was obviously as turbulent as history can be, but in comparison the second half of the last century was fairly peaceful probably thanks to the fact we had nuclear powers/NATO and WW2 showed just what happens when a nation can use it.

 

You are totally right on the last point, but unfortunately our brains and cultures have evolved to something totally different to make us very different in different parts of the World.

[leicsmac]

The first half of the last century was obviously as turbulent as history can be, but in comparison the second half of the last century was fairly peaceful probably thanks to the fact we had nuclear powers/NATO and WW2 showed just what happens when a nation can use it.

 

You are totally right on the last point, but unfortunately our brains and cultures have evolved to something totally different to make us very different in different parts of the World.

 

Yeah. Bloody shame. 

 

Bring on the hostile alien invasion, I say - that's probably the only way you're going to get everyone pushing one way, taking on true Jonny Foreigners.

[Guest MattP]

Yeah. Bloody shame. 

 

Bring on the hostile alien invasion, I say - that's probably the only way you're going to get everyone pushing one way, taking on true Jonny Foreigners.

 

I wouldn't bet on it, I'd probably take still my chances with the aliens ahead of some other cultures that currently occupy this planet.

[leicsmac]

I wouldn't bet on it, I'd probably take still my chances with the aliens ahead of some other cultures that currently occupy this planet.

 

[leicsmac]

Interesting twist: Supreme Court judge Antonin Scalia has grown wings after a long days hunting.

 

That leaves a spot on the Court that the next President will have to fill, and with the court pretty balanced in terms of ideology right now it's possible that who wins the next election will get the Supreme Court on their side too.

[Finnaldo]

Fair bit of ruckus in the GOP after the last debate, the smearing is on an incredible level

 

Meanwhile at the Democrat debate, Sanders had his inspirational leader down as... Winston Churchill 

[SMX11]

Well he couldn't say Mao.

[ramboacdc]

is it super tuesday tomorrow or is it march?