Isn't it time Rudkin crawled out from under his stone and offered some support?

[NotTheMarketLeader]

On 15/02/2017 at 15:16, Manwell Pablo said:

 

It's achieved quite a lot in that time I'll remind you, didn't we win the league in the grand days of King Sheehan Gradel Porter Dodds etc. 

 

Ironically we have had a massive overhaul to get top status and since then things have gone down hill  

 

Rudkin is more than capable of putting a good youth team together as is SB they are just going through a rough patch talent wise, there is a fair amount of luck in getting in players of that age, hard to judge potential improvement, hence why young players are often let go by clubs and resurface else where. Admittedly if it goes on for a sustained period you need to get rid but as far as I am aware it's a recentish problem. All youth teams go through stages of strength. 

 

Also the problem is nowhere near as bad as some are making out, we aren't even bottom, and we are division above several other Prem U23 teams.

 

As for his involvement in our current problem, I don't know what you want from him really you'd like to think no matter what you think of our summer signings Claudio has still be given the tools to do the job and is failing horribly, his last team did consist mostly of Premier League winners. 

Claudio has "been given the tools to do the job" you say.

 

It has been clear from Hull away that last season's 'heros' have not putting it in and thats where the problem starts. 

 

Accepting now, that has been the case it's been pretty difficult I think for CR to make a fist of it when I'm sure he, as the rest of us were,  expecting so much more from them.

 

The consequence of that is that squad depth and quality becomes paramount in order to ring the changes.

 

We have had little defensive back up or options to change this area for the better all season, with an ageing defence and not one specialist right back for cover.

 

For months we had no midfield options of the required level typified by us seeing a lot of King and Amartey in situ. That has partly been rectified by Nididi's arrival but the damage has been done.

 

Overall this is a poor, poor squad for a PL outfit with little or no depth, so I don't really see how your assessment at the top of the page is anywhere near accurate. 

 

I have been staggered by the lack of quality brought in in the last two windows - Ndidi aside.

 

This would an area which would be under the control of Rudkin, which indicates to me a big failing on his part.

[Manwell Pablo]

13 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Claudio has "been given the tools to do the job" you say.

 

It has been clear from Hull away that last season's 'heros' have not putting it in and thats where the problem starts. 

 

Accepting now, that has been the case it's been pretty difficult I think for CR to make a fist of it when I'm sure he, as the rest of us were,  expected so much more from them.

 

The consequence of that is that squad depth and quality becomes paramount in order to ring the changes.

 

We have had little defensive back up or options to change this area for the better all season, with an ageing defence and not one specialist right back for cover.

 

For months we had no midfield options of the required level typified by us seeing a lot of King and Amartey in situ. That has partly been rectified by Nididi's arrival but the damage has been done.

 

Overall this is a poor, poor squad for a PL outfit with little or no depth, so I don't really see how your assessment at the top of the page is anywhere near accurate. 

 

I have been staggered by the lack of quality brought in in the last two windows - Ndidi aside.

 

This would an area which would be under the control of Rudkin, which indicates to me a big failing on his part.

 

That's rubbish though isn't it. It's one player short of a team that won the  league. Not saying it should be winning the league again but it shouldn't be 17th. 

 

Our need for a midfielder and the fact we did not sign one was definitely an over sight (Rudkins involvement in this though is not known by any of us) and the fact that Mendy nailed himself for pretty much the entire first three months only compounded that. We could of done with some right back cover, but given Simpson hasn't been injured or suspended to my knowledge and was until recently doing a job (since the turn of the year he's been as bad as anyone) a bit a of non issue. 

 

But I think quality wise, this is the scouts job anyway isn't it, Rudkin is in charge of contract negotations Walsh had much more infleunce over the actual personel? The only player we've signed after he went was Slimani? Who was a long term target of Walsh anyway, Mendy was signed during Walsh's tenure, Luis Hernanzed was signed during Walsh's tenure, Ahme Musa was signed during Walsh's tenure....ironically enough the best signing in most peoples opinions, along with rectifying the situation at right back in terms of cover, has come after Walsh's influence had gone.

 

I'm not particularly found of the man and he has quite clearly made mistakes in both individual decisions and collective ones made by the club but lets not make out he is personally more responsible than a lot of others. Just a convenient place for people to vent frustration without having a dig at the manager who won us the league.   

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

That's rubbish though isn't it. It's one player short of a team that won the  league. Not saying it should be winning the league again but it shouldn't be 17th. 

 

Our need for a midfielder and the fact we did not sign one was definitely an over sight (Rudkins involvement in this though is not known by any of us) and the fact that Mendy nailed himself for pretty much the entire first three months only compounded that. We could of done with some right back cover, but given Simpson hasn't been injured or suspended to my knowledge and was until recently doing a job (since the turn of the year he's been as bad as anyone) a bit a of non issue. 

 

But I think quality wise, this is the scouts job anyway isn't it, Rudkin is in charge of contract negotations Walsh had much more infleunce over the actual personel? The only player we've signed after he went was Slimani? Who was a long term target of Walsh anyway, Mendy was signed during Walsh's tenure, Luis Hernanzed was signed during Walsh's tenure, Ahme Musa was signed during Walsh's tenure....ironically enough the best signing in most peoples opinions, along with rectifying the situation at right back in terms of cover, has come after Walsh's influence had gone.

 

I'm not particularly found of the man and he has quite clearly made mistakes in both individual decisions and collective ones made by the club but lets not make out he is personally more responsible than a lot of others. Just a convenient place for people to vent frustration without having a dig at the manager who won us the league.   

I agree we should be far better than 17th, and I could not argue if CR was sacked due to his inability to get these lazy bastards working hard.

 

In an attempt at having a bit of balance though, there has hardly been one of last season's 10 that remain that warrants a starting birth. That would be a massive handicap to any manager as we saw with Mourihno last year, especially when decent replacements are almost non existent in places.

 

As far as Rudkin goes, as D of F surely his responsibilities are all encompassing, aside from managing the team. It has to be more than shuffling papers and handing over a pen for a new player to sign a piece of paper; with no responsibilities and nothing to account for in the last nine months as you would have us believe.

 

You may know more than me about what he does, if so I'd be interested as to what it is.

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

I agree we should be far better than 17th, and I could not argue if CR was sacked due to his inability to get these lazy bastards working hard.

 

In an attempt at having a bit of balance though, there has hardly been one of last season's 10 that remain that warrants a starting birth. That would be a massive handicap to any manager as we saw with Mourihno last year, especially when decent replacements are almost non existent in places.

 

As far as Rudkin goes, as D of F surely his responsibilities are all encompassing, aside from managing the team. It has to be more than shuffling papers and handing over a pen for a new player to sign a piece of paper; with no responsibilities and nothing to account for in the last nine months as you would have us believe.

 

You may know more than me about what he does, if so I'd be interested as to what it is.

 

 

 

I'd be inclined to agree but this is all for the players and or Ranieri to sort out or for those up high to wield the axe.

 

Well what he does like all DOF's is kept vague, but Steve Walsh was here as he was when we signed these players, as was our network of scouts, as such I believe he is not solely, possible not even at all culpable for the selection of the transfer targets. I can easily believe he was the bloke leading the transfer negotiations and the player negotiations after the target had been identified and we have certainly paid through the nose for some players that have so far struggled but then again, I do wonder if these new players are capable of much more, we know the old guard are better than the dross we are seeing at the moment who is to say some of the new players aren't capable of offering much more if the environment improves? 

 

I find it hard to believe he is sportingly and footballingly involved as a lot of you would think, he replaced Terry Robinson who has always been far more of a bureaucrat than a footballing man like some DOF's, I don't doubt the role may have changed slightly since Rudkin took it over but I doubt it is to the extent where all of a sudden Rudkin is either medelling in first team affairs or telling Steve Walsh who we should sign.....I should imagine his involvement is technical, financial, and he still have input into the youth setup

[MPH]

On 2/15/2017 at 08:07, norwichfox said:

Don't see any blame being apportioned, it's just a statement of facts and a query as to why he should be clear of all blame when in his position is really as untenable as Ranieri's is

 

 

You must not be on foxestalk very often....

[norwichfox]

1 minute ago, MPH said:

 

 

You must not be on foxestalk very often....

This is my second day

[filbertway]

4 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

That's rubbish though isn't it. It's one player short of a team that won the  league. Not saying it should be winning the league again but it shouldn't be 17th. 

 

Our need for a midfielder and the fact we did not sign one was definitely an over sight (Rudkins involvement in this though is not known by any of us) and the fact that Mendy nailed himself for pretty much the entire first three months only compounded that. We could of done with some right back cover, but given Simpson hasn't been injured or suspended to my knowledge and was until recently doing a job (since the turn of the year he's been as bad as anyone) a bit a of non issue. 

 

But I think quality wise, this is the scouts job anyway isn't it, Rudkin is in charge of contract negotations Walsh had much more infleunce over the actual personel? The only player we've signed after he went was Slimani? Who was a long term target of Walsh anyway, Mendy was signed during Walsh's tenure, Luis Hernanzed was signed during Walsh's tenure, Ahme Musa was signed during Walsh's tenure....ironically enough the best signing in most peoples opinions, along with rectifying the situation at right back in terms of cover, has come after Walsh's influence had gone.

 

I'm not particularly found of the man and he has quite clearly made mistakes in both individual decisions and collective ones made by the club but lets not make out he is personally more responsible than a lot of others. Just a convenient place for people to vent frustration without having a dig at the manager who won us the league.   

Aside from the left back I wouldn't put the defence much above average championship players. Who were lucky to be protected by an incredibly defensive and organised team, as well as the best protective midfielder in England if not the world.

 

We're severely lacking in quality, not only starting positions but back up. I do however think our midfield and attack is pretty decent for this level and should easily be capable of finishing top 10.

 

Unfortunately, the team starts with the defence. Unless you can keep winning the ball high up the pitch, it's the job of the defence to shift the ball to midfield, not the other team's corner flag. I do have a little sympathy for them in that options aren't always available, however, a competent Premier League defence should be able to keep it between themselves until players show or gaps appear.

 

I love how Ndidi was clearly totally unaware of how bad we are, he was absolutely fuming with the defence against Swansea. The back line is dragging down our overall quality and I imagine it will be our undoing unless Ranieri can find a magic formula. Considering he keeps reverting to 4 4 2 after trying new things, I imagine he won't do that. Then again, after Villa and Hull I didn't think Pearson was going to find one either.

 

Seems obvious to me that 4 3 3 is the one but Ranieri seems to refuse to try it again after it's moderate success.

[Manwell Pablo]

6 hours ago, filbertway said:

Aside from the left back I wouldn't put the defence much above average championship players. Who were lucky to be protected by an incredibly defensive and organised team, as well as the best protective midfielder in England if not the world.

 

We're severely lacking in quality, not only starting positions but back up. I do however think our midfield and attack is pretty decent for this level and should easily be capable of finishing top 10.

 

Unfortunately, the team starts with the defence. Unless you can keep winning the ball high up the pitch, it's the job of the defence to shift the ball to midfield, not the other team's corner flag. I do have a little sympathy for them in that options aren't always available, however, a competent Premier League defence should be able to keep it between themselves until players show or gaps appear.

 

I love how Ndidi was clearly totally unaware of how bad we are, he was absolutely fuming with the defence against Swansea. The back line is dragging down our overall quality and I imagine it will be our undoing unless Ranieri can find a magic formula. Considering he keeps reverting to 4 4 2 after trying new things, I imagine he won't do that. Then again, after Villa and Hull I didn't think Pearson was going to find one either.

 

Seems obvious to me that 4 3 3 is the one but Ranieri seems to refuse to try it again after it's moderate success.

 

Simpson has played his entire career in the prem bar two seasons in the championship which ended in promotion so no sorry while he should thank his lucky stars every day he has a PL winners medal he is a far cry from average championship. Huth likewise has played top level his entire career at this level. Morgan yes you can question but even them to dismiss him as such given his exploits in getting us keeping us and ultimately winning us this league suggest to me he probably didn't have the players around him at forest.

 

Theyve all been shoddy this season but so have the whole team, funnily enough I think Fuchs has probably been the worse of the lot at times.

 

There is not a player in this team playing to their full potential, and that's on them and the manager.