General Election, June 8th

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

As there is ample evidence that the Thatcher government (as well as Thatcher herself) supported Pinochet and Saddam, as well as at least some tacit support for the apartheid SA regime.

 

At this point I'm thinking this one is going round and round and pretty much played out, yes?

Mrs Thatcher isn't standing for election. 

[Guest MattP]

Why are going on about Thatcher? She's not standing to be Prime Minister. 

 

Going on about aparthied now is like using the Iraq War against Labour - totally irrelevant.

 

Edit: Just saw Webbo make same point. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

At this point I'm thinking this one is going round and round and pretty much played out, yes?

 

Absolutely agreed. Let's talk about 2017, not the 1980s/90s.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Mrs Thatcher isn't standing for election. 

And Corbyns views may well have changed significantly from that point in time to the present day, and given the IRA is no longer really active it is as moot a point as Thatchers support for the organisations likewise no longer here.

 

The point is that those views in the past have zero bearing on the present.

[Finnaldo]

6 minutes ago, Webbo said:

There's ample evidence that Corbyn supported the IRA, I'm not going to stop saying it just because you don't want to listen.

 

It doesn't matter if he supported the political aims of the IRA if he didn't support their militaristic actions.

 

Unlike May's government funding and arming the Wahhabist and Salafist centre of the world, which is a danger to us all in the here and now.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

And Corbyns views may well have changed significantly from that point in time to the present day, and given the IRA is no longer really active it is as moot a point as Thatchers support for the organisations likewise no longer here.

 

The point is that those views in the past have zero bearing on the present.

I reckon you'd be less forgiving if it was a tory supporting a bunch of murderers.

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

It doesn't matter if he supported the political aims of the IRA if he didn't support their militaristic actions.

 

Unlike May's government funding and arming the Wahhabist and Salafist centre of the world, which is a danger to us all in the here and now.

Who says he didn't support their militaristic actions? Are there any quotes from him condemning their actions? He won't do it even now.

[Alf Bentley]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Mrs Thatcher isn't standing for election. 

 

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

Why are going on about Thatcher?

 

She's not standing to be Prime Minister. 

 

True, though she's generally the top heroine of most right-wing Tories, despite her support for  apartheid, Pinochet's mass murder and mass torture, and sales of WMDs Theresa May is, though.

 

So, shall we talk about Theresa May's support for Bush & Blair's bloodthirsty and illegal war in Iraq - a war opposed by Corbyn, by many non-Corbynista lefties like me and supported by most Tories?

 

I would genuinely prefer to discuss the issues of the 2017 election, but if you lot insist on turning this thread into a shitstorm of smears and mud-slinging about the past, I'll join in.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I reckon you'd be less forgiving if it was a tory supporting a bunch of murderers.

Not so much. If I did I would make the same point as Alf did and frame it as important when I've made it quite clear that the views of both Thatcher and Corbyn in the 1980's are irrelevant now.

 

Way too many people (and nations, for that matter) let the past define what they do now, when it's frankly bollocks - it's right now and the future that's important.

[Alf Bentley]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I reckon you'd be less forgiving if it was a tory supporting a bunch of murderers.

 

I forgive you and you're a Tory supporting a bunch of murderers (Pinochet, Saddam etc.)

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Alf Bentley said:

True, though she's generally the top heroine of most right-wing Tories, despite her support for  apartheid, Pinochet's mass murder and mass torture, and sales of WMDs Theresa May is, though.

 

So, shall we talk about Theresa May's support for Bush & Blair's bloodthirsty and illegal war in Iraq - a war opposed by Corbyn, by many non-Corbynista lefties like me and supported by most Tories?

 

I would genuinely prefer to discuss the issues of the 2017 election, but if you lot insist on turning this thread into a shitstorm of smears and mud-slinging about the past, I'll join in.

Then throw the mud at May, not Thatcher.

 

She's the one standing for election.

[Finnaldo]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Who says he didn't support their militaristic actions? Are there any quotes from him condemning their actions? He won't do it even though.

 

Probably the well publicised interview where he condemned all bombing and violence, I didn't hear him tag "except the IRA" on the end.

 

Now what about May actively arming terrorist sympathisers?

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

True, though she's generally the top heroine of most right-wing Tories, despite her support for  apartheid, Pinochet's mass murder and mass torture, and sales of WMDs Theresa May is, though.

 

So, shall we talk about Theresa May's support for Bush & Blair's bloodthirsty and illegal war in Iraq - a war opposed by Corbyn, by many non-Corbynista lefties like me and supported by most Tories?

 

I would genuinely prefer to discuss the issues of the 2017 election, but if you lot insist on turning this thread into a shitstorm of smears and mud-slinging about the past, I'll join in.

Yet again with the "smears and mudslinging". Are you saying there's no truth in it?

[Webbo]

Just now, Finnaldo said:

 

Probably the well publicised interview where he condemned all bombing and violence, I didn't hear him tag "except the IRA".

 

Now what about May actively arming terrorist sympathisers?

Why would you arm sympathisers?

[Finnaldo]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Why would you arm sympathisers?

 

Dunno, ask May and her Saudi mates she has arm deals with.

[Webbo]

Just now, Finnaldo said:

 

Dunno, ask May and her Saudi mates she has arm deals with.

So we legally sell arms to one of our allies in the middle east? 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Then throw the mud at May, not Thatcher.

 

She's the one standing for election.

 

He already did.

 

6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

So, shall we talk about Theresa May's support for Bush & Blair's bloodthirsty and illegal war in Iraq - a war opposed by Corbyn, by many non-Corbynista lefties like me and supported by most Tories?

 

I would genuinely prefer to discuss the issues of the 2017 election, but if you lot insist on turning this thread into a shitstorm of smears and mud-slinging about the past, I'll join in.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Finally! - https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/russell-brand-endorsed-labour-tories-worried/

 

 

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

He already did.

 

 

I love how the tories keep getting the blame for Labour's war. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Webbo said:

So we legally sell arms to one of our allies in the middle east? 

Interesting that we can overlook grotesque human rights violations when it's legal and they're our allies, isn't it?

[leicsmac]

Just now, Webbo said:

I love how the tories keep getting the blame for Labour's war. 

They agreed with it (mostly), whether you think they were deceived or not they share the blame.

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

So we legally sell arms to one of our allies in the middle east? 

 

An ally who'll support Islamist insurrections against Iran-allied states, yes.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting that we can overlook grotesque human rights violations when it's legal and they're our allies, isn't it?

Who doesn't? Look at Corbyn and the things he has said about the Castro regime, no one in the World doesn't have some double standards on these issues.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting that we can overlook grotesque human rights violations when it's legal and they're our allies, isn't it?

What do you want us to do about? Stop selling them arms so the Russians can instead? Refuse to buy their oil? Sometimes your allies aren't nice people, but you have to make the best of things.

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

An ally who'll support Islamist insurrections against Iran-allied states, yes.

So are Iran the good guys?