General Election, June 8th

[Sharpe's Fox]

15 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

4 million people have been taken out of income tax altogether. Everyone bar the richest have seem their taxes fall

 

 

Quote

 Tony Bernstein, a senior tax partner at HW Fisher & Company, a firm of accountants, said the increase in the personal allowance appeared to be the work of the Liberal Democrats.

"The £10,000 personal allowance is clearly the Lib Dem target and the Tories have no choice but to work towards this, however grudgingly," he said. 

"The inclusion of higher rate taxpayers is a welcome departure from previous practice but the increase is not significant given the limited increase in the higher rate tax threshold."

Iol

[Spiritwalker]

42 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

4 million people have been taken out of income tax altogether. Everyone bar the richest have seem their taxes fall

I would rather pay a little more tax and have better public services and have more 

money available to be redistributed to those less fortunate than myself.

[Sharpe's Fox]

10 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I would rather pay a little more tax and have better public services and have more 

money available to be redistributed to those less fortunate than myself.

Same here. Would rather have world class healthcare and a safety net of social security than have a couple hundred quid in me pocket but be burdened by insururance payments.

[Spiritwalker]

The whole " Labour are economically incompetent / the Tories are a 

safe pair of hands for the economy" is a media myth. The irony of 

the Tory catchphrase,"strong and stable" would be funny if it wasn't

so serious. I fear for this country if we get a large Tory majority.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

The whole " Labour are economically incompetent / the Tories are a 

safe pair of hands for the economy" is a media myth. The irony of 

the Tory catchphrase,"safe and stable" would be funny if it wasn't

so serious. I fear for this country if we get a large Tory majority.

It genuinely scares the life out of me. 

[Webbo]

8 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

The whole " Labour are economically incompetent / the Tories are a 

safe pair of hands for the economy" is a media myth. The irony of 

the Tory catchphrase,"safe and stable" would be funny if it wasn't

so serious. I fear for this country if we get a large Tory majority.

I remember the 70s. The shambles of the nationalised industries, the constant strikes, the 10/20% inflation caused by the tax/borrow and spend policies that Corbyn wants to bring back. That idea that what Labour will do will improve the economy and the still growing economy, low unemployment, reasonably low inflation that we have at the minute is somehow a terrible economy is laughable

[Sharpe's Fox]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I remember the 70s. The shambles of the nationalised industries, the constant strikes, the 10/20% inflation caused by the tax/borrow and spend policies that Corbyn wants to bring back. That idea that what Labour will do will improve the economy and the still growing economy, low unemployment, reasonably low inflation that we have at the minute is somehow a terrible economy is laughable

Your talking about such a vastly different world to that of the 70's that the comparison isn't really viable. Not only has there been massive change in the technological and political realities that we now find ourselves in the manifesto that the Labour Party has released pales in comparison to even Tory 70's governments in terms of nationalisation.  A more sensible comparison is to modern European social democracies with a similar tax spend to GDP ratio.

[Webbo]

Just now, Sharpe's Fox said:

Your talking about such a vastly different world to that of the 70's that the comparison isn't really viable. Not only has there been massive change in the technological and political realities that we now find ourselves in the manifesto that the Labour Party has released pales in comparison to even Tory 70's governments in terms of nationalisation.  A more sensible comparison is to modern European social democracies with a similar tax spend to GDP ratio.

Look at France, that's a modern version of 70s Britain, high unemployment, militant unions, unaffordable public spending.

[Spiritwalker]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I remember the 70s. The shambles of the nationalised industries, the constant strikes, the 10/20% inflation caused by the tax/borrow and spend policies that Corbyn wants to bring back. That idea that what Labour will do will improve the economy and the still growing economy, low unemployment, reasonably low inflation that we have at the minute is somehow a terrible economy is laughable

Surely renationalising the water and energy companies would be better than

what we have now, foreign owned monopolies and cartels fleecing the public.

[Sharpe's Fox]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Look at France, that's a modern version of 70s Britain, high unemployment, militant unions, unaffordable public spending.

Better standard of living, higher productivity and more patriotic also. Despite being shackled to a currency run in another countries interest.

[SMX11]

5 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

Surely renationalising the water and energy companies would be better than

what we have now, foreign owned monopolies and cartels fleecing the public.

You will get inefficient state run monopolies fleecing the public. Monopolies can only occur by state intervention.

[Webbo]

Just now, Spiritwalker said:

Surely renationalising the water and energy companies would be better than

what we have now, foreign owned monopolies and cartels fleecing the public.

Why would it? The nationalised water companies had years of under investment, because there were no votes in it. Any money that was invested went on over manning and inflation busting wage rises because the unions could do as they liked and nobody could stand up to them. When they were privatised the govt insisted on massive investment. In the early 90s roads in Leicester were constantly being dug up for a new sewer system.Water quality standards had to be improved because of EU directives. That had to be paid for and that's why prices went up. Yes these firms made a profit as well, that's the whole point of being in business.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Better standard of living, higher productivity and more patriotic also. Despite being shackled to a currency run in another countries interest.

It has higher productivity because it's so expensive to employ anyone and virtually impossible to sack them. Business doesn't want to take on staff so they have to do more with less.

[Dr The Singh]

Corbyn is on the rise, I'm really exited about the election, finally we have a difference in policy.  However which ever party comes in power, the middle class like me will always get screwed.

[Webbo]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

Corbyn is on the rise, I'm really exited about the election, finally we have a difference in policy.  However which ever party comes in power, the middle class like me will always get screwed.

You haven't been screwed for years.

[Guest Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

BTW - If it's okay for the Tories to tax the richest, why not Labour?

 

I've never said lets not tax the richest. I have a problem with making out people on £80000 are rich and the vilification that comes with that. Also the Laffer curve exists for a reason and just taxing the rich higher doesn't mean a higher tax take. But fundamentally I believe in people's economic freedom, as a route to personal freedom, and therefore I don't approve of the government taxing and spending. 

 

A large majority of economists believe a poll tax system is in society's interest, the models suggest it improves overall welfare for society. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but we are allowed to have different views on tax.

 

1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

 

 

Iol

 

He asked what good had been done for ordinary people in the last 7 years. I don't care what party was behind it, I answered the question. I'm not a Conservative party spokesman, I'm not really a fan of the Conservative party particularly under Theresa May. However, I will not that the Conservatives have continued to push it up even after the coalition.

41 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I would rather pay a little more tax and have better public services and have more 

money available to be redistributed to those less fortunate than myself.

 

That's your choice. I personally am skeptical of taxing and I prefer people to spend how they wish. You would rather pay more for better public services. The question was, what has been done for ordinary people, well 4 million have been taken out of tax and given economic freedom.

9 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

Surely renationalising the water and energy companies would be better than

what we have now, foreign owned monopolies and cartels fleecing the public.

 

Yes because it would be so much better to now give those same people government bonds. So we increase government debt, pay them interest and fundamentally give them the safest form of debt which they will keep sponging off with no link to performance. Well thanks a ****ing lot Jermey, thanks for helping the middle classes by dropping tuition fees and instead ****ing us all over with more government debt, interest paid on that, thus decreasing the taxes that can be used on spending because they are used on servicing debt. Thanks very much you man of the people

[Dr The Singh]

10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You haven't been screwed for years.

I'm ready for Dianne Abbott

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

I'm ready for Dianne Abbott

Jeremy Corbyn's sloppy seconds?

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

Jeremy Corbyn's sloppy seconds?

Times are hard

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Jeremy Corbyn's sloppy seconds?

I was thinking a love sandwich with me, rincy, Di and corbyn

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I was thinking a love sandwich with me, rincy, Di and corbyn

That's an image I'll need therapy to remove from my consciousness.

[Dr The Singh]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

That's an image I'll need therapy to remove from my consciousness.

Don't bother going to the hospital, there computer systems are fecked and doctors can't do shit without them

[Sharpe's Fox]

22 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

Yes because it would be so much better to now give those same people government bonds. So we increase government debt, pay them interest and fundamentally give them the safest form of debt which they will keep sponging off with no link to performance. Well thanks a ****ing lot Jermey, thanks for helping the middle classes by dropping tuition fees and instead ****ing us all over with more government debt, interest paid on that, thus decreasing the taxes that can be used on spending because they are used on servicing debt. Thanks very much you man of the people

Quote

So the  only real question is how Labour will pay for nationalisation. This is the same question, of course, as asking how the banks were bailed out and how £435 billion was found for QE which, among other things, boosted the price of the companies to be renationalised. The answer is neither, directly, cost the taxpayer a penny. The money was created to achieve both out of thin air.

 So renationalisation could be done in the same way. Issue bonds for fair value. Make them redeemable in not less than thirty years, and maybe longer. Make the interest rate the very low ones on offer now. In net terms these are likely to be negative throughout that thirty year period.  And what is the net cost of renationalisation? Next to nothing. Or less.
 

 

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/05/16/how-to-pay-for-renationalisation/

[Guest Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/05/16/how-to-pay-for-renationalisation/

 

Yeah that would be absolutely wonderful if that is how QE and bank bailouts were done. It would also be great if Richard Murphy had a bit more credibility in the relevant circles

[Webbo]

9 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/05/16/how-to-pay-for-renationalisation/

Quote

 So renationalisation could be done in the same way. Issue bonds for fair value. Make them redeemable in not less than thirty years, and maybe longer. Make the interest rate the very low ones on offer now. In net terms these are likely to be negative throughout that thirty year period.  And what is the net cost of renationalisation? Next to nothing. Or less.

Who'd buy these bonds if the returns were so low or even negative?