General Election, June 8th

[Jon the Hat]

The Labour money tree this morning is going to spend an extra £10Bn on improving NHS IT systems!

[Sharpe's Fox]

Man of the people Jeremy Corbyn

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

53 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Man of the people Jeremy Corbyn

 

 

The Mail will want him arrested for failing to report a crime. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

The Mail will want him arrested for failing to report a crime. 

JC wouldn't do that he's a true brudda

[Guest Kopfkino]

5 hours ago, Webbo said:

When they say that health expenditure in Germany is higher is that all from govt funds? I believe in Germany you have to pay to see a GP , is that money counted into the overall expenditure?

 

It's normally done as 'turnover. I believe Germany's expenditure is roughly 70% govt funding. It is also considered the best consumer-oriented system and there's a lot of choices people can make for themselves

[Guest MattP]

Reading that Instagram post hurts my eyes....

 

This weeks polls.

 

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 48% (+1)
LAB: 30% (-)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (-)

(via Survation / 12 - 13 May)

 

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 49% (+3)
LAB: 31% (+1)
LDEM: 9% (-2)
UKIP: 3% (-2)

(via YouGov)

 

CON: 48% (-2)
LAB: 30% (+5)
LDEM: 10% (-2)
UKIP: 5% (-2)
GRN: 3% (-)

(via ComRes)

 

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 47% (+1)
LAB: 32% (+2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
UKIP: 5% (-2)
GRN: 2% (-)

(via Opinium Research / 09 - 12 May)

 

Labour appear to have gained a little support lately at the expense of the Lib Dems who now appear to be absolutely tanking, UKIP appear dead and buried as well. This is going to be the first election for years where the main two parties actuallu increase their vote again rather than lose it to others,

[Jon the Hat]

"It's not over yet!" they say.

[Sharpe's Fox]

28 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Labour appear to have gained a little support lately at the expense of the Lib Dems who now appear to be absolutely tanking, UKIP appear dead and buried as well. This is going to be the first election for years where the main two parties actuallu increase their vote again rather than lose it to others,

[Guest MattP]

31 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

"It's not over yet!" they say.

The polls at the minute are absolutely ideal, the idea of a second referendum or sabotage of Brexit is finished, the Tories get a healthy majority and Corbyn clings onto enough of the vote to keep himself in the job.

[Rincewind]

Not taking sides here but I know someone who a few years ago needed ops on his knees. His consultant said he could do one knee on the NHS soon but would have to wait a couple of years to have the other one done. However if he was to go private he could (same surgeon) do both at the same time. The cost was about 10k which was not affordable so he turned both ops down. He said he wanted both done. Whether he was right to do so is not for me to say. He had his reason and I am only relating what I was told. Believe it or not.

The thing is, he was a builder,painter decorator by trade and had to give up work and claim DB which he has been on ever since. His legs have deteriorated over the years and uses a stick as well as taking medication for the pain.

There is no doubt those  who would have been able to afford the op or would have afforded medical insurance. The cost may be more for those in the building industry because of the higher risk. Sitting behind a desk logged onto FoxesTalk a lower risk so would cost far less 

The NHS was set up so medical care is available to all regardless of their social status. Wealth should not determine who has priority and that is the road many people fear we are heading to.

[Jon the Hat]

13 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

Not taking sides here but I know someone who a few years ago needed ops on his knees. His consultant said he could do one knee on the NHS soon but would have to wait a couple of years to have the other one done. However if he was to go private he could (same surgeon) do both at the same time. The cost was about 10k which was not affordable so he turned both ops down. He said he wanted both done. Whether he was right to do so is not for me to say. He had his reason and I am only relating what I was told. Believe it or not.

The thing is, he was a builder,painter decorator by trade and had to give up work and claim DB which he has been on ever since. His legs have deteriorated over the years and uses a stick as well as taking medication for the pain.

There is no doubt those  who would have been able to afford the op or would have afforded medical insurance. The cost may be more for those in the building industry because of the higher risk. Sitting behind a desk logged onto FoxesTalk a lower risk so would cost far less 

The NHS was set up so medical care is available to all regardless of their social status. Wealth should not determine who has priority and that is the road many people fear we are heading to.

I have no idea what the bulk of your post has to do with the last sentence, but I will respond to that.  The NHS is indeed there to ensure medical care is there to all.  It is not there to prevent those who can afford private care from getting it, and it never has been.  Where did you get that idea?  If someone can afford something with their own money, then they should be able to buy it.  Do you think they should not?  Once they have paid their taxes in full, and providing what they want is completely legal?  Yes or no?

 

[Rincewind]

No I do not mean that. Yes if someone can afford it they should be able to pay it but for those that cannot they should be able to receive the same care That should always be there and not deny people because lack of funds or insurance. 

The first part was long winded. The point was in short was  the surgeon was willing to do the full op if the patient gave him his fee instead of the NHS. Maybe it was over the weekly budget for the NHS.

[leicsmac]

The NHS should be funded well enough to supply a good quality baseline of care to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it (like a lot of folks over here who end up either dead or bankrupted), and those who can afford it should have the choice to go private if they wish.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with these two concepts being in place and running concurrently.

[Guest MattP]

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 11:15, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Who the hell came up with this tactic for Rebecca Long-Bailey...

 

Gain a prime time slot for an interview and start the first 3 questions with the response, i can't tell you anything, wait till Tuesday (because the manifesto isn't out).

 

Truely bizarre! I don't really see what 'Labour figures' see in her. 

I don't. Although there isn't much talent in any of the main parties now.

 

It was a weird decision to send her on the primetime slot refusing to answer any questions. 

 

I'm still wanting to know what the **** "trend GDP" is as well. 

[Rincewind]

19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The NHS should be funded well enough to supply a good quality baseline of care to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it (like a lot of folks over here who end up either dead or bankrupted), and those who can afford it should have the choice to go private if they wish.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with these two concepts being in place and running concurrently.

I have no problem with it. And I agree 100%

[Jon the Hat]

35 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

No I do not mean that. Yes if someone can afford it they should be able to pay it but for those that cannot they should be able to receive the same care That should always be there and not deny people because lack of funds or insurance. 

The first part was long winded. The point was in short was  the surgeon was willing to do the full op if the patient gave him his fee instead of the NHS. Maybe it was over the weekly budget for the NHS.

Your example though had the guy refusing care, presumably because he wanted the choice to have both knees done at once for his convenience, vs when they really needed to be done.

[Jon the Hat]

31 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The NHS should be funded well enough to supply a good quality baseline of care to those who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it (like a lot of folks over here who end up either dead or bankrupted), and those who can afford it should have the choice to go private if they wish.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is with these two concepts being in place and running concurrently.

Indeed.  The NHS is not badly funded IMO, although impacted by underfunding in social care at the moment, but it clearly doesn't allocate its funds in the best way.

[Rincewind]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Your example though had the guy refusing care, presumably because he wanted the choice to have both knees done at once for his convenience, vs when they really needed to be done.

You may well be right. He does like his beer and it may have upset his drinking schedule.  He never actually refused care just half of it. He would still have had to suffer one dodgy knee and been on DLA.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Rincewind said:

You may well be right. He does like his beer and it may have upset his drinking schedule.  He never actually refused care just half of it. He would still have had to suffer one dodgy knee and been on DLA.

Nope.  If he was offered one knee now and another knee later that would have been because one wasn't severe enough to justify surgery now.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Indeed.  The NHS is not badly funded IMO, although impacted by underfunding in social care at the moment, but it clearly doesn't allocate its funds in the best way.

 

I would disagree regarding the "not badly funded" part and agree that there is a problem with fund allocation, but TBH the organisation is so big and there's so much conflicting information you could make a statistical argument for either of us being right on the first matter.

 

For what it's worth I look at the "system" here (that was edging towards gradually being acceptable and is now in danger of being rolled back again) then look at the NHS and think that the UK could have it so much worse.

[Buce]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Reading that Instagram post hurts my eyes....

 

 

Actually, it's one of the things I like most about Corbyn; it appears that he's a genuine, down-to-earth man, who hasn't allowed notoriety or position to change him. The kind of man who deserves respect for adhering to his beliefs so diligently, whether you agree with him or not. 

 

Most policians don't have even half his integrity. 

[Rincewind]

I just heard his side and I thought the same as you but according to him the surgeon was willing to do both if he paid.

I would have had it done myself but like I said I only heard his version.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Actually, it's one of the things I like most about Corbyn; it appears that he's a genuine, down-to-earth man, who hasn't allowed notoriety or position to change him. The kind of man who deserves respect for adhering to his beliefs so diligently, whether you agree with him or not. 

 

Most policians don't have even half his integrity. 

Integrity is great as long as the beliefs you hold dear aren't stuck in some nutty 1970's Marxist ideology, and you are not wanting to run the country.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Rincewind said:

I just heard his side and I thought the same as you but according to him the surgeon was willing to do both if he paid.

I would have had it done myself but like I said I only heard his version.

Yes obviously, on private healthcare you have more options, like I said get them both done right now for your convenience.  The NHS has to decide on that level of care which is fair, and giving this guy both in place of someone else who needs their down more urgently would not be fair.  Privately you are not taking anyone else's place in the queue.

[Buce]

20 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Integrity is great as long as the beliefs you hold dear aren't stuck in some nutty 1970's Marxist ideology, and you are not wanting to run the country.

 

No, integrity is great.

 

Full stop.