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davieG

Technology, Science and the Environment.

By davieG, in General Chat

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samlcfc

samlcfc

Posted
Posted
On 11/11/2022 at 01:22, leicsmac said:

If I find a version of the conversation elsewhere, I'll certainly listen. I just draw the line at contributing to his fortune through ad money.

If you're still interest in hearing what this Bjorn guy has to say, he must be doing the rounds and has just been on the Lex Fridman podcast.

 

Lex usually does a good job of questioning what his guests are saying and this episode is advertised as a debate, with Andrew Revkin fighting the other corner.

 

I haven't listed yet, so can't comment too much on it, but look forward to listening shortly.

samlcfc

samlcfc

Posted
Posted (edited)

SEA just dropped this mammoth episode on what is easily one of my favourite youtube channels.

 

Will likely be of interest to those frequenting this thread and the creator absolutely deserves his content shared about.

 

The information, imagery and sound is brilliant. His stuff is usually a pretty profound watch and this is no different.

 

 

Edited by samlcfc
  • Like 1
ian__marshall

ian__marshall

Posted
Posted

Not sure if this has been covered on here before and can't be bothered to look back through the whole thread but thought it was an interesting concept. 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62982113.amp?espv=1

 

@leicsmac Would be interested in your take on this and whether you think it's a potential long term solution or whether in reality there's just too many hurdles to overcome. 

samlcfc

samlcfc

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Not sure if this has been covered on here before and can't be bothered to look back through the whole thread but thought it was an interesting concept. 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62982113.amp?espv=1

 

@leicsmac Would be interested in your take on this and whether you think it's a potential long term solution or whether in reality there's just too many hurdles to overcome. 

 

Was surprised to hear this on the radio this morning. Feels like the stuff of sci-fi, a real space-based megastructure. The prospective 10 year time frame mentioned for such a project was an eye-opener, to what people are capable of with regards to engineering such things and getting them up there.

 

Bit of a depressing view point, but it would be interesting to understand how these sorts of projects are considered with regards to potential future conflicts. In some respects I imagine it'd be much the same as infrastructure on the ground, but as a layman, this sort of thing feels like it'd be much more expensive to put in place and pretty vulnerable.

 

Edit:

There's a relevant study on the gov.uk website from September 21, that notes key risks and considerations as below:


The key risks and considerations are:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/space-based-solar-power-de-risking-the-pathway-to-net-zero


Political
o Integration with energy policy
o Land use - rectenna sites
o Development timescales
o Integration with national infrastructure
o Responsibility and security of operations
o International collaboration


Economic
o LCOE vs other renewable tech
o Development funding / long ROI
o Economics of space launch
o Industrial capability
Social
o Public acceptance of technology
o Demonstration and acceptance of Safety


Technological
o In-orbit robotic assembly, maintenance
o Lightweight sandwich panel modules
o Size and scale of satellite

Space Based Solar Power: De-risking the pathway to Net Zero
15
o Wireless power transmission efficiency
o Accurate energy beam pointing and control
o Operational life in space environment


Legal
o Development of regulations
o ITU spectrum allocation for WPT
o Orbit allocation for satellite


Environmental and safety
o Rectenna site environmental impact
o Through life carbon / sustainability
o Proving long term operational safety
o Decommissioning strategy / orbital debris

 

Plenty to think about!

Edited by samlcfc
ian__marshall

ian__marshall

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, samlcfc said:

 

Was surprised to hear this on the radio this morning. Feels like the stuff of sci-fi, a real space-based megastructure. The prospective 10 year time frame mentioned for such a project was an eye-opener, to what people are capable of with regards to engineering such things and getting them up there.

 

Bit of a depressing view point, but it would be interesting to understand how these sorts of projects are considered with regards to potential future conflicts. In some respects I imagine it'd be much the same as infrastructure on the ground, but as a layman, this sort of thing feels like it'd be much more expensive to put in place and pretty vulnerable.

 

 

Yeah, re: your latter point that was my thoughts too. Reminds me of a science book I read in the late 80s that mentioned space wars.

 

  • Like 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ian__marshall said:

Not sure if this has been covered on here before and can't be bothered to look back through the whole thread but thought it was an interesting concept. 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62982113.amp?espv=1

 

@leicsmac Would be interested in your take on this and whether you think it's a potential long term solution or whether in reality there's just too many hurdles to overcome. 

Ah, yes, I saw this. A proper Salarian-style solution.

 

I certainly think it's plausible in the fullness of time, but then I also think that solar power directly from satellites orbiting the Sun in a close orbit (not as sophisticated as a Dyson Sphere but similar in principle) is also possible. @samlcfc covers a lot of the practical points above, so the only thing I'll add is that I think it belongs in a suite of long-term solutions that would include sorting fusion and ceasing reliance on burning anything carbon-related for power generation.

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, The Bear said:

It all sounds great until Dr Evil takes it over and threatens to blow up the Earth. 

Tbf if Dr Evil browbeat every nation on the planet into drawing down on carbon emissions under threat of solar powered annihilation, I'd be fine with that. :ph34r:

Guest worth_the_wait

Guest worth_the_wait

Posted
Posted

I don't think anyone has told Ulaanbaatar (Mongolia) about Global Warming.   Expected minimum tomorrow -40C and it's not even December yet!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2028462


(that is one seriously cold capital city)

 

The Bear

The Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, worth_the_wait said:

I don't think anyone has told Ulaanbaatar (Mongolia) about Global Warming.   Expected minimum tomorrow -40C and it's not even December yet!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2028462


(that is one seriously cold capital city)

 

I know your answer was probably tongue in cheek, but it's worth saying - Global warming doesn't mean everywhere gets warmer. Its the AVERAGE global temperature which increases. 

 

Temperature extremes occur more frequently as a result of more energy in the system, and that means cold extremes as well as hot. 

Edited by The Bear
  • Like 1
Guest worth_the_wait

Guest worth_the_wait

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Bear said:

I know your answer was probably tongue in cheek, but it's worth saying - Global warming doesn't mean everywhere gets warmer. Its the AVERAGE global temperature which increases. 

 

Temperature extremes occur more frequently as a result of more energy in the system, and that means cold extremes as well as hot. 

Yeah, i was being flippant.

 

According to wiki, Ulan Bator's record November cold temperature was -37 C.  Anywhere near -40 C beats it by a mile.

Edited by worth_the_wait
Fazzer 7

Fazzer 7

Posted
Posted

Gas is currently accounting for 61% of our power generation, wind 1.8% and solar, nowt! Surprisingly for me nuclear is only around 11%. Surely what this demonstrates is we have to have more nuclear and soon. How can we ever rely on renewables when they don't work at night/low light conditions or when there is insufficient wind. 

SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

How can we ever rely on renewables when they don't work at night/low light conditions or when there is insufficient wind. 

Advances in energy storage technologies ensure energy stability to the grid, storing excess energy produced by renewables such as wind and solar for periods when we experience less wind or incoming insolation. 

 

It's important to appreciate that sustainable energy systems are designed to work in conjunction, so if you have ample capacity, then only windless winter nights will seriously strain the system, whilst alternative generation from hydro electric systems for example can be allowed to back up and store power. In the UK, once we have expanded potential from harnessing wave and tidal power, there will be less need for complex back up systems. Also factor in cross-border electricity interconnections which will allow the EU to boost its security of electricity supply and to integrate more renewables into energy markets.

 

In addition, several Icelandic companies make it their business to export geothermal and hydropower which will be a hugely expanding market in the future. 

  • Like 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Gas is currently accounting for 61% of our power generation, wind 1.8% and solar, nowt! Surprisingly for me nuclear is only around 11%. Surely what this demonstrates is we have to have more nuclear and soon. How can we ever rely on renewables when they don't work at night/low light conditions or when there is insufficient wind. 

Battery storage. That's reasonably obvious.

 

But yes, next generation fission has to be a part of the variety of solutions, renewables among them. And these solutions have to be implemented worldwide.

Fazzer 7

Fazzer 7

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Battery storage. That's reasonably obvious.

 

But yes, next generation fission has to be a part of the variety of solutions, renewables among them. And these solutions have to be implemented worldwide.

Will batteries longevity and durability improve hugely then? Because current technology is pretty poor. Like this flaming phone, 15 months from new and the battery is down to 81% capacity meaning I now need to charge it twice most days. 

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Will batteries longevity and durability improve hugely then? Because current technology is pretty poor. Like this flaming phone, 15 months from new and the battery is down to 81% capacity meaning I now need to charge it twice most days. 

There's a rather large difference between storage tech for large scale energy generation and the battery you have in your phone. (For a start, the latter is often subject to built in obsolescence,  viz. money grubbers wanting you to buy a new product after a couple of years so they make sure the one you have doesn't last.) As Line-X says above, the storage tech is there.

 

In any case, that the UK doesn't generate much from renewables (yet) is also down to the fact the UK hasn't utilised anywhere near the potential it has from them yet by building more, not that the tech itself is not fit for purpose.

 

 

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