Amartey to Stuttgart

[AKCJ]

15 minutes ago, HoustonFox said:

Zabaleta

 

Amartey is another one for me, like Demarai, who is stuck in that inbetween world of not starting XI but too good or not picked for the U23s. This is where reserve team football is missing for me. Good players need mins to get a rhythm and get their mentality right for games. It's tough to judge Amartey as we don't see him except in certain circumstances and he hasn't had a chance to get a groove on. CB is really tough to just pick up, for me, other than GK, it's the most mentally taxing position where you can't just run yourself into the game. Mistakes cost goals and you can't do much to make up for it, which is why I don't see him there yet. Not sure his midfield position yet either. Against Arsenal, I didn't see him as the screener or destroyer. Not sure if that was tactics or lack of discipline / awareness on his part. At Copenhagen, he seemed to be a B2B mid, a lot like a Wilf. 

 

Sorry, wrote more than I meant to there! 

Zabaleta has been making mistakes galore so far for West Ham.

[HoustonFox]

7 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Ju Sung Park played for Manchester United during one of their most successful periods ever, James Milner played for Man City and Liverpool during some of their most successful periods in the Premier League era.

 

They're two of the best utility players to have played in the division, I genuinely don't know what sort of player some fans think should come and sit on our bench. Amartey comes off it, does a sound job wherever he's asked and then happily sits on it the following week.

 

I guarantee that Shakespeare won't let him go without a fight.

 

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

Zabaleta has been making mistakes galore so far for West Ham.

Was referring to the bolded part of your comment. If we are going to talk about now, I believe Park played most recently for De Montford uni didn't he? 

 

Zabaleta at his peak was a fantastic utility player, wasn't talking about signing him. I think Amartey should stay 

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

This is not empirical evidence.

 

I will grant you the Swansea game - he did well.

 

The rest of what you have displayed; Come alive.

 

Scoring a header (as against Stoke) no more proves he is of PL quality, than it proves he is a space alien. ?

You asked me to provide evidence of him playing well at Premier League level and I have. I know it doesn't suit your agenda but that's fine.

 

I can't say if you went to the Stoke game or not but he was exceptional in the second half. Down to 10 men too. He did far more than "score a header" - a header that secured us a point.

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, HoustonFox said:

 

Was referring to the bolded part of your comment. If we are going to talk about now, I believe Park played most recently for De Montford uni didn't he? 

 

Zabaleta at his peak was a fantastic utility player, wasn't talking about signing him. I think Amartey should stay 

Oh right I thought you were responding to "I genuinely don't know what sort of player some fans think should come and sit on our bench".

 

Zabaleta was a fantastic utility player too but he ultimately became a mainstay at right back.

[HoustonFox]

Just now, AKCJ said:

Oh right I thought you were responding to "I genuinely don't know what sort of player some fans think should come and sit on our bench".

 

Zabaleta was a fantastic utility player too but he ultimately became a mainstay at right back.

Ha, think we were both skim reading each other's posts! 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

20 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

You asked me to provide evidence of him playing well at Premier League level and I have. I know it doesn't suit your agenda but that's fine.

 

I can't say if you went to the Stoke game or not but he was exceptional in the second half. Down to 10 men too. He did far more than "score a header" - a header that secured us a point.

Don't be ridiculous; this is your rationale is it? 

 

We are to decipher whether a player is 'good', by selecting odd passages of play or 'halves of games' where the player 'has done well' or 'scored a header'.

At the same time we are to ignore the other 90% of time where said player has been totally shit or amateurish in his play. 

 

A good half here and there has to be weighed against the rest of the time he's spent on the pitch ffs.

 

The more sensible approach is to the opposite of what you suggest as a measure of a players worth or ability. 

 

We use the the total of what we have seen, not a premeditated selection. Using this very basic system of judgement, in the vast majority of games he has been piss poor. So our decision is: he's piss poor.

 

On what I have seen he's a Championship player at best - end of.

 

 

[vanity]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Don't be ridiculous; this is your rationale is it? 

 

We are to decipher whether a player is 'good', by selecting odd passages of play or 'halves of games' where the player 'has done well' or 'scored a header'.

At the same time we are to ignore the other 90% of time where said player has been totally shit or amateurish in his play. 

 

A good half here and there has to be weighed against the rest of the time he's spent on the pitch ffs.

 

The more sensible approach is to the opposite of what you suggest as a measure of a players worth or ability. 

 

We use the the total of what we have seen, not a premeditated selection. Using this very basic system of judgement, in the vast majority of games he has been piss poor. So our decision is: he's piss poor.

 

On what I have seen he's a Championship player at best - end of.

 

 

You were presented the evidence you asked for. What is your evidence Amartey has been totally shit or amateurish in his play 90% of his time on the pitch for us? 

 

 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

12 hours ago, vanity said:

You were presented the evidence you asked for. What is your evidence Amartey has been totally shit or amateurish in his play 90% of his time on the pitch for us? 

 

 

In answer to your last sentence; watching him play.

 

Such a rational and compelling argument you and AKCJ put forward.

 

Amartey has been here around 20 months, and you say he's a good PL quality player based on bits of three games. ?

 

You have your own ideas and I have mine.

[alanf0x]

Have we got rid yet? Jack of all trades, master of none. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, alanf0x said:

Have we got rid yet? Jack of all trades, master of none. 

Not a first team pick but you need players on the bench who can fill multiple roles and who are happy to not start. He's a very useful squad member for that reason. 

[vanity]

10 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

In answer to your last sentence; watching him play.

 

Such a rational and compelling argument you and AKCJ put forward.

 

Amartey has been here around 20 months, and you say he's a good PL quality player based on bits of three games. ?

 

You have your own ideas and I have mine.

You are so concerned with arguing and being "right" that you are making things up now. I didn't say "he's a good quality player based on bits of three games." I asked what your evidence was for him being shit 90% of the time, as you were demanding evidence of other people. That isn't an argument. That was me asking whether you were prepared to provide the sort of support you expected of other posters. 

 

Yes, you have your ideas, other people have their ideas. And I'm all for a bit of shit-talking and argument, but at least acknowledge when people go digging for evidence you asked for and produce it. He showed you that Amartey has played well enough to be considered one of the top Leicester players on the field on at least three occasions. That wasn't his opinion, that was the collective opinion of all the fans polled who watched those games. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

22 minutes ago, vanity said:

You are so concerned with arguing and being "right" that you are making things up now. I didn't say "he's a good quality player based on bits of three games." I asked what your evidence was for him being shit 90% of the time, as you were demanding evidence of other people. That isn't an argument. That was me asking whether you were prepared to provide the sort of support you expected of other posters. 

 

Yes, you have your ideas, other people have their ideas. And I'm all for a bit of shit-talking and argument, but at least acknowledge when people go digging for evidence you asked for and produce it. He showed you that Amartey has played well enough to be considered one of the top Leicester players on the field on at least three occasions. That wasn't his opinion, that was the collective opinion of all the fans polled who watched those games. 

For my own sanity we will take it as red that in the three whole games he played well, based on a 'fan poll'.

 

Notwithstanding this dubious measure of whether this makes him a worthy PL player; what I have seen of him (every

minute of every game he has played for us) he is not up to the standard required for our or any other team looking to survive in this division.

 

That is the discussion point I began with another poster.

 

Rather than fan polls I prefer my own judgement and experience above anything else, allied with statistics if available.

 

We have all had not three games to judge this guy on but many many games spread over 20 months. 

 

Performance over this longer period should be the arbiter, NOT three games of his selected by those to use your own words, whose 'agenda' is to prove he is decent. 

 

This to me is common sense. I fail to see how you can argue that we should draw conclusions on a small sample rather than the whole.

 

If you have statistics which show he's been overall a worthy performer for us over the long term, I will bow to that.

[Babylon]

11 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

In answer to your last sentence; watching him play.

 

Such a rational and compelling argument you and AKCJ put forward.

 

Amartey has been here around 20 months, and you say he's a good PL quality player based on bits of three games. ?

 

You have your own ideas and I have mine.

Well I've watched him play as well and to suggest he's rubbish 90% of the time is more over the top foxestalk nonsense.

 

He got shown up badly against the best teams, but against the rest he was nowhere near as bad as you make out. In fact as time went on he started to grow into the role and the general consensus was that he was improving quite a bit before he went to AFCON.

 

I don't want him starting until he sorts out his tracking of players, there are issues but the ridiculous over the top criticism of him and others is just unfair.

[RODNEY FERNIO]

If Stuttgart buy him I'm sure he'll get lost trying to get there ... the lad doesn't seem aware of where anything is.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

42 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Well I've watched him play as well and to suggest he's rubbish 90% of the time is more over the top foxestalk nonsense.

 

He got shown up badly against the best teams, but against the rest he was nowhere near as bad as you make out. In fact as time went on he started to grow into the role and the general consensus was that he was improving quite a bit before he went to AFCON.

 

I don't want him starting until he sorts out his tracking of players, there are issues but the ridiculous over the top criticism of him and others is just unfair.

Disagree.

[sphericalfox]

Had a decent game.