StanSP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 9 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Regards the home wins, is this because everyone builds a team that reflects their own pitches? As a layman, it looks like Australian pitches are great for fast and they've got loads of fast bowlers, looks like Indian pitches are good for spinners and they have good spinners etc? English conditions are good for, what, swing? That's what Anderson and Broad do and I'm guessing Curran? I'm not sure I understand the difference between getting swing and not really but there seems to be a significant difference between England and Australia despite them both favouring fast bowlers. Pretty much!
Guest MattP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 15 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Regards the home wins, is this because everyone builds a team that reflects their own pitches? As a layman, it looks like Australian pitches are great for fast and they've got loads of fast bowlers, looks like Indian pitches are good for spinners and they have good spinners etc? English conditions are good for, what, swing? That's what Anderson and Broad do and I'm guessing Curran? I'm not sure I understand the difference between getting swing and not really but there seems to be a significant difference between England and Australia despite them both favouring fast bowlers. Pretty much. Cloud cover, shine and the Duke ball (used in England make it swing) Blue Sky and the Kookaburra ball which is harder to shine (used in Australia) produce less swing so has more reliance on pace.
Guest MattP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Some grounds swing more than others as well, for reasons no one really can work out 100%. Which is one of the most fascinating things about the game.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 5 minutes ago, StanSP said: Our squad though relates to that point about the shorter format - there's too many players who just don't have the discipline to play a game out for 4/5 days. They're far too focussed on hitting big shots, big swing-and-a-miss usually. Only Kohli seems to be able to adapt to any kind of pitch, any kind of bowler and get success out of it*. A joy to watch but whoever he's batting with doesn't even have half the discipline he has. The influence of T20/IPL is clear for me in our squad. It's a shame because some players in the test squad are obviously very talented in their own way but when it comes to tests, there's little to shout about. I think Pujara has shown the necessary discipline too in a variety of conditions. Admittedly, he's struggled a little recently. Totally agree regarding the team as a whole though, and most teams for that matter. There's no doubt most tests teams now lack the same types of players of yesteryear like a Boycott, Gavaskar, real innings builders. That's just seems to be the result of the growing short formats.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 54 minutes ago, StanSP said: further emphasising the point of how bad we can be They all blow hot and cold though don't they @StanSP. England can look World beaters one minute, distinctly below average the next. India can be similar. There's not really been that many consistent teams in the history of the game. I guess that's why the West Indies teams of Lloyd, Richards and the pace bowlers and the Aussie teams of Waugh, Warne Gilchrist and McGrath are so revered. Ruthless competitors and genuinely World class players coming together at the same time. It's very unusual for a team to win so regularly away from home.
StanSP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 9 minutes ago, Max Wall said: I think Pujara has shown the necessary discipline too in a variety of conditions. Admittedly, he's struggled a little recently. Totally agree regarding the team as a whole though, and most teams for that matter. There's no doubt most tests teams now lack the same types of players of yesteryear like a Boycott, Gavaskar, real innings builders. That's just seems to be the result of the growing short formats. I badly miss the likes of Dravid and Tendulkar 2 minutes ago, Max Wall said: They all blow hot and cold though don't they @StanSP. England can look World beaters one minute, distinctly below average the next. India can be similar. There's not really been that many consistent teams in the history of the game. I guess that's why the West Indies teams of Lloyd, Richards and the pace bowlers and the Aussie teams of Waugh, Warne Gilchrist and McGrath are so revered. Ruthless competitors and genuinely World class players coming together at the same time. It's very unusual for a team to win so regularly away from home. Yeah, definitely. I remember in the last few years a phrase commonly used to describe England would be for them to 'clutch defeat from the jaws of victory' .
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 10 minutes ago, MattP said: Some grounds swing more than others as well, for reasons no one really can work out 100%. Which is one of the most fascinating things about the game. Will the temptation be, if England win the toss, to put India in to bat after last week Matt? It's still quite unusual to win the toss and not bat but, if they could get on top of the batsmen early, do you think that would be the way to go? Would mean Ashwin getting last crack at the pitch though.
Guest MattP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 2 minutes ago, Max Wall said: Will the temptation be, if England win the toss, to put India in to bat after last week Matt? It's still quite unusual to win the toss and not bat but, if they could get on top of the batsmen early, do you think that would be the way to go? Would mean Ashwin getting last crack at the pitch though. Assuming there is cloud cover I think you have to have a bowl unless they think it's a belted of a pitch. Average first innings score at Trent Bridge is lower than most I think.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 1 hour ago, StanSP said: I badly miss the likes of Dravid and Tendulkar Yeah, definitely. I remember in the last few years a phrase commonly used to describe England would be for them to 'clutch defeat from the jaws of victory' . Anyone would miss Sachin and The Wall. I'll never forget that partnership between Laxman and Dravid against the Aussies, I was practically pissing myself by the end of it. It was so rare for that Aussie team to get a bloody nose like that. As a long time England supporter, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory was almost enjoyable for me. It meant we'd got close to winning, something that didn't happen very much for years.
Guest MattP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 1 minute ago, Max Wall said: Anyone would miss Sachin and The Wall. I'll never forget that partnership between Laxman and Dravid against the Aussies, I was practically pissing myself by the end of it. It was so rare for that Aussie team to get a bloody nose like that. Changed the game that didn't it? Before then I'm sure the follow on was always enforced, teams became scared of it on any sort of decent pitch.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Just now, MattP said: Assuming there is cloud cover I think you have to have a bowl unless they think it's a belted of a pitch. Average first innings score at Trent Bridge is lower than most I think. Yeah, pretty sure that's correct. Always been known as a bit of a bowlers paradise if the conditions are right. Strangely though, a little less than it used to be in years gone by. I think that's true of a lot of grounds though as things moved towards favouring the batsmen in general. Quite a few of the Aussie pitches lost a bit of pace too.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Just now, MattP said: Changed the game that didn't it? Before then I'm sure the follow on was always enforced, teams became scared of it on any sort of decent pitch. It really did. It was really an extraordinary partnership though. You don't get many of those in a teams history.
Guest MattP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Here is the game @Max Wall is talking about if anyone hasn't seen the card, amazing. http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/15565/scorecard/63920/india-vs-australia-2nd-test-australia-tour-of-india-2000-01
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Here is the game @Max Wall is talking about if anyone hasn't seen the card, amazing. http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/15565/scorecard/63920/india-vs-australia-2nd-test-australia-tour-of-india-2000-01 657/7 following on. Warne 1/152 Thanks Matt, just looking at that brought a smile to my face. I shouldn't really enjoy a result so much when it doesn't involve my team but, boy, those Aussies had pasted us for so long I couldn't help but enjoy it.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Bowling it is. Windy, slightly murky day by the looks of it. Start crucial for both teams but especially India. It'll be hard work for them until lunch you'd think.
StanSP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Good to see Bumrah back. Hopefully he can make a bit of a difference.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 4 minutes ago, StanSP said: Good to see Bumrah back. Hopefully he can make a bit of a difference. He should swing it in those conditions for sure. If it's moving around, you could easily envisage one and a half innings being done by close.
StanSP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 I think I could listen to Kumar Sangakkara all day about cricket
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Good start for India. A few play and misses but an opening stand heading towards 50 is just what they needed.
foxy boxing Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Root made a mistake not having England bat first, maybe he wanted Stokes to get some early action!
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Just now, foxy boxing said: Root made a mistake not having England bat first, maybe he wanted Stokes to get some early action! David Lloyd seemed to expect England to bat first, unless he was bluffing. I probably agree with MattP, given the overcast conditions, they were always likely to put them in. An early wicket and it could have been deja vu for the Indians but they've done well to be fair to them.
StanSP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 5 minutes ago, Max Wall said: David Lloyd seemed to expect England to bat first, unless he was bluffing. I probably agree with MattP, given the overcast conditions, they were always likely to put them in. An early wicket and it could have been deja vu for the Indians but they've done well to be fair to them. yeah if I was winning the toss I'd be bowling first today as well. Especially given confidence might have been fairly low after the last test in similar conditions.
Max Wall Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 14 minutes ago, StanSP said: yeah if I was winning the toss I'd be bowling first today as well. Especially given confidence might have been fairly low after the last test in similar conditions. It will be interesting to see how the England bowlers respond. With the exception of Kohli, they've had it all their own way in the first two tests. Stokes coming on now, he'll swing it for sure. Depends if he relaxes and just bowls or whether he's uptight and tries to hard. A good Indian first innings will set the match up and put pressure on the England batsmen which they haven't particularly responded well to in recent times.
StanSP Posted 18 August 2018 Posted 18 August 2018 Woakes with the breakthrough. Dhawan was looking good as well. Just hope we don't collapse now.
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