What does Gareth Southgate do right now, pick club bench-warmers or take a punt on those actually playing 90 minutes?

[davieG]

As Southgate looks for ‘fit’ England players, is it time for Leicester’s Maddison?


SEP 15TH
What does Gareth Southgate do right now, pick club bench-warmers or take a punt on those actually playing 90 minutes?

After the euphoria of England’s World Cup run in Russia, everyone was convinced (and still is) that Gareth Southgate was on the brink of doing something crazy, which was to actually produce a crop of England players who didn’t fail under the weight of the nation’s expectations. People’s next question, after a semi final showing at football’s elite competition, was to ask how can we compete with the Spains, Brazils, Germanys of this world and perhaps win out right in Qatar 2022!

Well, fast-forward two months and the question has altered somewhat, now the question on everyone’s lips is, how do you put an England side out that is actually fit enough to last 90 minutes? The Premier League season is still young but already there are troubling signs for England’s top stars of the future, with an increasing number of Southgate’s future key players, firmly routed to their club bench. And it isn’t just one of two!

The Problem

Let’s take a look at the bare facts, here are the England players with little or no minutes so far in the new Premier League season and remember that we are four games in:

 

Jordan Henderson 138

 

Danny Rose 83

 

Ruben Loftus-Cheek 33

 

Danny Welbeck 21

 

Fabian Delph 0

 

Here in lies the problem. Those five names would be bankers to make Gareth’s upcoming squads, but can he pick players who are not even deemed ‘good enough’ by their club managers to play week in week out?

On Sky Sports Football’s ‘Debate’ show Paul Merson makes a powerful point that back in his day this wouldn’t even be a question, if you were not playing for your club then there was categorically no chance that you would play for England. You wouldn’t even bother thinking about it:

“If you weren’t playing, you weren’t in the squad, as simple as that. If Gaza wasn’t playing for his first team then he wouldn’t get picked.”

 

The Fix

So what is the solution? Well apart from Southgate crying down the phone to the top six managers and begging for his young stars to get some game time, perhaps the obvious way out of this is to look elsewhere. Take James Maddison for example, the young midfielder has been on top form for Leicester City since his summer move from Norwich and already he is knocking on the Three Lions’ door quite loudly. Many would say that it is too early for a player like Maddison, which may be wise, he’s only played a handful of Premier League games and is yet to prove that he belongs at this level, however how valuable is the fact that he’s actually playing 90 minutes?

 

Chelsea’s Ross Barkley, whose England stock is falling with every passing week would love to be in Maddison’s position and if he was, he’d undoubtedly be in the England squad in a second.

So the choice is being pressed further and further under Gareth Southgate’s nose, does he play unfit, rusty England players who he believes in for the future, or does he switch focus to players who are actually playing every game and crying out for a call up?

 

At the end of the day, he needs to pick whichever method will get him results! It will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

[Webbo]

Madison has played 4 PL matches and i don't think he's played 90 minutes in any of them. Far too early for an England call up. Maybe after Christmas if he keeps in good form.

[Tuna]

Players from the "big teams" will be selected no matter what.

 

 

[Brainy]

Pick the best English players about to build a team who will play at Euro 2020. Pick them even if they're playing limited minutes for their clubs, unless their is perhaps a stand out player who deserves a shot at it. Squad selection shouldn't be based on the previous four weeks like some idiots think.

[BenTheFox]

The difficulty is we don't have enough players playing regularly at the top level. Just selecting to 23 players who are playing regularly in the top tier is a real struggle. He can't win. 

[BenTheFox]

2 hours ago, Tuna said:

Players from the "big teams" will be selected no matter what.

 

 

Not this nonsense again. 

[Langston]

18 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Pick the best English players about to build a team who will play at Euro 2020. Pick them even if they're playing limited minutes for their clubs, unless their is perhaps a stand out player who deserves a shot at it. Squad selection shouldn't be based on the previous four weeks like some idiots think.

 

These aren't particularly good players that are getting called up despite a lack of game time though. Welbeck's injuries have left him running in treacle, Loftus-Cheek is far from the finished product, Rose has been off the boil for about 18 months and Delph is a jack of all trades, master of none.

 

The only one you could argue should be in the England squad despite a lack of playing time is Henderson – partly because there's a dearth of quality in the middle of the park – but he's picked up more minutes than the other four and is head and shoulders above them in terms of ability.

 

I'd much rather be taking a punt on a Callum Wilson who has years on Welbeck, is playing and scoring regularly, over the latter who can't scrape together any form because he's always injured / never plays.

Edited 15 September 2018 by Langston

[Brainy]

21 minutes ago, Langston said:

 

These aren't particularly good players that are getting called up despite a lack of game time though. Welbeck's injuries have left him running in treacle, Loftus-Cheek is far from the finished product, Rose has been off the boil for about 18 months and Delph is a jack of all trades, master of none.

 

The only one you could argue should be in the England squad despite a lack of playing time is Henderson – partly because there's a dearth of quality in the middle of the park – but he's picked up more minutes than the other four and is head and shoulders above them in terms of ability.

 

I'd much rather be taking a punt on a Callum Wilson who has years on Welbeck, is playing and scoring regularly, over the latter who can't scrape together any form because he's always injured / never plays.

Welbeck is one pick that frustrates me too, however I also believe that what players have done in an England shirt in the past should be just as important as their club form. Granted we're talking about years and years ago for Welbeck because he does have a good scoring record for England. Wilshere was a good example, played his best football for England 2 or 3 years ago picking up quite a few MOTM awards. There is clearly a good player in there but because of his injury record and lack of games for Arsenal he was always deemed by those probably of the same ilk as Tuna as not worthy of a place in the squad at the expense of a decent at best midfielder from Bournemouth who is just in a good spell of form.

[Kitchandro]

1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

Not this nonsense again. 

Well it's not nonsense, it's been categorically proven down the years, this year's world cup included despite what the media would have you believe.

 

Players like Rashford, Dier & Alli had no business playing football at the World Cup but guess what, they play for big clubs. Meanwhile Vardy constantly sidelined for years despite having world class form and has essentially been forced into international retirement because he knows he is never going to be treated equally.

 

Don't get me started on the farce of 2 years ago. It's been going on for years and still goes on now.

 

 

 

 

[BenTheFox]

2 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Well it's not nonsense, it's been categorically proven down the years, this year's world cup included despite what the media would have you believe.

 

Players like Rashford, Dier & Alli had no business playing football at the World Cup but guess what, they play for big clubs. Meanwhile Vardy constantly sidelined for years despite having world class form and has essentially been forced into international retirement because he knows he is never going to be treated equally.

 

Don't get me started on the farce of 2 years ago. It's been going on for years and still goes on now.

 

 

 

 

Southgate has picked players from Burnley, Swansea, Stoke, Palace, Leicester, Everton, Southampton etc. The only selection I disagreed with in terms of the world cup squad was the inclusion of Danny Welbeck. If there was such a big club bias, Jones would have started ahead of Maguire and Loftus-Cheek went because of his form for Palace while the likes of Drinkwater, Wilshere, Barkley, Lallana etc. didn't. 

 

I'm with you, Euro 2016 was a complete farce, but you'd have to be blind not to see that things have been different under Southgate. 

[Brainy]

7 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

Southgate has picked players from Burnley, Swansea, Stoke, Palace, Leicester, Everton, Southampton etc. The only selection I disagreed with in terms of the world cup squad was the inclusion of Danny Welbeck. If there was such a big club bias, Jones would have started ahead of Maguire and Loftus-Cheek went because of his form for Palace while the likes of Drinkwater, Wilshere, Barkley, Lallana etc. didn't. 

 

I'm with you, Euro 2016 was a complete farce, but you'd have to be blind not to see that things have been different under Southgate. 

There is an image thing with our players for atleast the last 6 years. Social media partly to blame with people being very impressionable. Dele Alli blew onto the scene but now has a reputation of being a diver, and actually not being that good because his best season was probably a couple of seasons back. Kane, one of the worlds best goalscorers but he isn't allowed a few poor games without being labelled as overrated. And is now a little more disliked/mocked after "claim-gate" and the fact he hath a lithsp. Maguire is a very popular player amongst fans right now but he wouldn't be anywhere near as liked if he played for a top 6 side. Rashford burst onto the scene a few years ago and is now beginning to fall into the "how does he get into the side" group. Some of the players in this group like Welbeck I can understand the frustration. But international breaks are about building a side for the Euros/WC, if you want to call up Callum Wilson for example because you think he can play a part for those tournaments then fine, but don't call him up because he scored 3 goals in August. Do people really think that we'd have got any further in the WC with a team such as

 

Butland

 

Wan Bissaka

Tomkins

Tarkowski

Daniels

 

Will Hughes

Shelvey

 

Maddison

Lookman

Ibe

 

Wilson

 

Obviously exaggerated because i'm sure there are atleast a few players that we can agree should be in the side

 

[Jattdogg]

At times i feel like binning all these top level cvnts because they just dont get us the results when it matters. But then passing up on kane banging in goals with his horse face or scoring a goal kicked by someone else can be tough to pass on.

 

I've got to say, i would love to see an england "B" side of non stars or at least those who dont seem to ever get decent play time with the senior squad (including those in the championship). Get them playing together always and see how they fair against our beloved non deliverers. 

 

Sometimes no pressure, hard working players can make shit happen. Heck they probably have just as good a chance as our current side.

 

I feel nowadays these stars just care about the selection, lame handshakes, tweeting/instagraming and not getting injured more so than actually winning a footy game.

 

The entire FA (full of ass) needs sacking.

Edited 18 September 2018 by Jattdogg

[fuchsntf]

On 15/09/2018 at 12:08, Webbo said:

Madison has played 4 PL matches and i don't think he's played 90 minutes in any of them. Far too early for an England call up. Maybe after Christmas if he keeps in good form.

Agree,showing no bias,Maddison like others have to do more to earn the shirt...