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[Vardinio'sCat]

11 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

I don't agree with that Swan, I clearly recall the lazy tag being labelled at Le Tissier,  Hoddle and other players of their ilk who didn't run round like mad men. I will go on the record and say I think Kelechi is lazy, that is my opinion and it is not based on colour, age, sexuality or religion!

 

I don't think Swanlesta implied that only black players get called lazy, unless I am misunderstanding him.

[Vardinio'sCat]

11 hours ago, Bunyip said:

As you pointed out we already have the " kick it out " programme. Anyone heard to make racist comments will be banned by the club  and no one is now treated differently by the club or any club in terms of physical or mental disabilities, And Gender discrimination is no longer tolerated ( note the number of female pundits on all the sports coverage ) So I struggle to understand what this is all about? You are never going to completely stamp out prejudice it's what humans are about, so what is this aiming to achieve? it's very vague and sets out no particular goal at all ?

 

There are still issues, as I think anyone would expect in a society with ongoing problems around discrimination, but I think your faith in the current system is stronger than this guy.

 

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/homophobia-football-leicester-city-premier-league-response-kick-it-out/

 

 

I know little about this particular initiative, but I wouldn't dismiss it unless I was very sure of my ground.

[Bluetintedspecs]

24 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

I don't think Swanlesta implied that only black players get called lazy, unless I am misunderstanding him.

The way the word ‘lazy’ is so casually attributed to black players rather than white is something to perhaps consider..

 

I'm unsure what I'm misreading  Vardinio? 

[The People's Hero]

I dunno; Berbatov had a languid, lazy sort of style. 
 

I can think of plenty of white players even who have played for Leicester who not only seemed a bit lazy but had that exact accusation levelled at them.

 

This is just one of those self-perpetuating football myths.

[Bluetintedspecs]

2 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

I dunno; Berbatov had a languid, lazy sort of style. 
 

I can think of plenty of white players even who have played for Leicester who not only seemed a bit lazy but had that exact accusation levelled at them.

 

This is just one of those self-perpetuating football myths.

Totally, lazy is lazy or the polite languid  whatever colour.

[Vardinio'sCat]

10 hours ago, oadby.fox said:

I get this but I think it's off the mark to assume that fans are being racist because they, for instance, describe Iheanacho as putting in lazy performances.

 

Regarding casual racism/stereotypes, in my experience it has usually been the case that black players are often praised for being "fast, physical, strong" etc but never for having "great vision" or "football intelligence" etc. Some people might not see this, as in both cases they are positive attributes but it's something I've noticed commentators do since I was a kid. Despite this, I wouldn't say that it was wrong to call a black player fast or strong just because there is this historical stereotype. Sometimes it just is objectively true that a player is quick and sometimes it is just objectively true that a player is lazy or puts in a lazy performance. Whether someone thinks that a player is quick or lazy because of their ethnicity is a different question.

 

In Kelechi's case it's honestly hard to say that he is only receiving this kind of criticism regarding his performances because he is black. I don't think his ethnicity has anything to do with it (but maybe that's just because I surround myself with others who don't make racist comments). People say he is lazy because he doesn't put a shift in on the pitch and the stats would probably bear that out. You don't hear that about Ndidi, Mendy, Ricardo, Morgan, Kante etc and there's a good reason why. The only way for us to really know what difference Nacho's ethnicity makes with regards to the perception of him being lazy is if we had a white player who performed identically to him. That is impossible of course but I remember that Bendtner used to get a lot of flack at Arsenal for being both ineffective and lazy (Ozil likewise), people often viewed Berbatov as being a bit lazy too but he always scored and so his perceived lack of effort was always forgiven.

 

In my opinion, the worst way to move forwards on issues like these are to try and clamp down on any criticism of BAME players because of the potential for such criticism to coincide with any historical prejudices. Given that we are all beings of equal moral worth, we should all be equally prone to praise and blame, and to take that away from BAME players is actually to privilege white players over them. It produces a narrative that "only white players can handle criticism", and it simultaneously sets up BAME players as perpetual victims irrespective of whether that criticism is coming from a place of genuine critique or one of bigotry. 

 

Great post until the last bit. I haven't seen anyone saying we shouldn't criticise black players. So I agree with your last paragraph, but think it is so obviously true that it shouldn't need to be said. We seem to be talking at somewhat cross purposes, on this thread. Many strawmen arguments seem to be going on.

 

I saw a couple of posts on the Inieacho thread which I thought were straying into dodgy territory, one of which lcfc sheff mentioned. They may have been picked up by the mods by now, or they may have been deemed tolerable. lcfc sheff then bumped this thread complaining about it, and I responded suggesting that it is only the odd (and rare) comment that could be read as dodgy.

 

I guess anything vaguely controversial tends to snowball on here, with folks responding to different posts, and sometimes more heat than light.

 

Edited 10 January 2019 by Vardinio'sCat

[The People's Hero]

2 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Totally, lazy is lazy or the polite languid  whatever colour.

I think its lazy 95% of the time, but if you're Berbatov or Mata or someone like Raul or Totti having played 60 games in a season and you're taking the piss playing at 85%, then you get 'languid'.

 

I wish my wife would switch to calling me languid, its ultimately means the same but belies an underlying level of respect or recognition of craft/ability.

[The People's Hero]

Just now, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

Great post until the last bit. I haven't seen anyone saying we shouldn't criticise black players. 

 

I'm happy to be the guinea pig. Ade Akinbiyi and Momo Sylla were properly crap.

[Vardinio'sCat]

8 hours ago, RumbleFox said:

Haha, no I did say it once because another poster was being slightly homophobic and I wanted him to think about what he was saying.  Haha don't worry, my memory gets worse every day.  I am a shoo-in for dementia.  X

 

Crikey mate, you have just shattered my illusion of FT diversity.  It all tied nicely together (in my head) cos you are often v funny, which in itself is a stereotype of gay men (ie scathing wit being common).

 

Funny how an offhand comment gets remembered.

[Vardinio'sCat]

45 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

The way the word ‘lazy’ is so casually attributed to black players rather than white is something to perhaps consider..

 

I'm unsure what I'm misreading  Vardinio? 

Your response: I don't agree with that Swan, I clearly recall the lazy tag being labelled at Le Tissier,  Hoddle and other players of their ilk who didn't run round like mad men. I will go on the record and say I think Kelechi is lazy, that is my opinion and it is not based on colour, age, sexuality or religion!

 

 

I thought you were suggesting that because Le Tiss got called lazy, Swan lesta's point was not correct.

 

Apropos of nothing, I also think Inieacho's workrate is often poor, although he has impressed me in the odd game. But that wasn't because he ran about much, just because his allround game was ok.

Edited 10 January 2019 by Vardinio'sCat

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

When I saw another 4 pages on this thread since yesterday, I was in 2 minds whether to click on it, fearing the worst.

 

But actually it has been pretty good, and at least I found out something new, which is not something I can say for every thread. FT, nowhere near as wrong as Bentleys Roof! 

[Bluetintedspecs]

20 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

Your response: I don't agree with that Swan, I clearly recall the lazy tag being labelled at Le Tissier,  Hoddle and other players of their ilk who didn't run round like mad men. I will go on the record and say I think Kelechi is lazy, that is my opinion and it is not based on colour, age, sexuality or religion!

 

 

I thought you were suggesting that because Le Tiss got called lazy, Swan lesta's point was not correct.

 

Apropos of nothing, I also think Inieacho's workrate is often poor, although he has impressed me in the odd game. But that wasn't because he ran about much, just because his allround game was ok.

Yeah I find Iheanacho very frustrating because I like all fans so wanted him to be an exciting acquisition, sadly, like you say,  it has just been glimpses.

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

Ian Wright's documentary isn't available on catch up, and only got shown on ITV4, which is a bit sad. Hopefully it will get a better platform at some point.

 

As a matter of interest, the one or two posts that lcfc sheff and I thought were a bit out of order are gone.

 

That's good, but no one can see what was up, and what caused a bit of offence. I have seen it stated on this thread that some have never seen a dodgy post on here. I think you do see the odd one, but it is very much the exception.

 

 

Edited 10 January 2019 by Vardinio'sCat

[Vardinio'sCat]

Just now, Bluetintedspecs said:

Yeah I find Iheanacho very frustrating because I like all fans so wanted him to be an exciting acquisition, sadly, like you say,  it has just been glimpses.

 

I think this is one of the many reasons he is getting such criticism (on top of the poor performances), we had sky high expectations given his pedigree, and we gave Man City a small fortune for him. We (as a fanbase) aren't used to £10's of millions being wasted on bad acquisitions, if that is what he is.

 

I've actually started to feel sorry for him (as well as frustrated), because he really doesn't look comfortable on the pitch, he looks more like he needs to speak to the Samaritans.

[Bluetintedspecs]

7 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

Ian Wright's documentary isn't available on catch up, and only got shown on ITV4, which is a bit sad. Hopefull it will get a better platform at some point.

 

As a matter of interest, the one or two posts that lcfc sheff and I thought were a bit out of order are gone.

 

That's good, but no one can see what was up, and what caused a bit of offence. I have seen it stated on this thread that some have never seen a dodgy post on here, but I think you do see the odd one, but it is very much the exception.

 

 

I think a heated (not abusive) debate can be healthy, I haven't been on the Iheanacho thread because I generally like to look for positives and have made allowances for age, change of club, style, limited opportunity etc etc but that has worn thin now and I'm now feeling the same way as I did over " Only weak people feel pressure" Beckford which I don't like as his lack of effort incensed me.

[Vardinio'sCat]

Edited 10 January 2019 by Vardinio'sCat

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

I think this is one of the many reasons he is getting such criticism (on top of the poor performances), we had sky high expectations given his pedigree, and we gave Man City a small fortune for him. We (as a fanbase) aren't used to £10's of millions being wasted on bad acquisitions, if that is what he is.

 

I've actually started to feel sorry for him (as well as frustrated), because he really doesn't look comfortable on the pitch, he looks more like he needs to speak to the Samaritans.

I feel the same way about him and unlike all our other players have been very critical.  The difference between what is or what isn't acceptable for me though is if someone happened to mention his country of origin, culture, religion or colour of his skin, all of which are irrelevant. Apart from racist issues it's pure common sense because the next minute we could be talking in glowing terms regarding a player who just happens to be black and Nigerian and none of us would have to think very hard to name some brilliant players. There are so many players I've thought a lot of whether that be George Best, Ian Wright, Heskey, Ronaldo, Cambiasso or Vardy but would find it a bizarre concept to differentiate between any of them on grounds of skin colour. If it wasn't so wrong and offensive it's almost comical that somebody's brain could actually work like that. Thankfully for the huge majority of kids and young adults today it's almost a non issue and my kids, whilst they are aware of the issues, struggle to get their heads round it due to the mix of their close friends which has become quite the norm in Leicester. Yet sadly, we just can't get away from the fact that over recent weeks since I first commented on this post, there have been some very disturbing incidents in football, things I thought had long been left behind. We have to police these things ourselves I think. Where I sit in the cheap seats of the West Stand,  notwithstanding the ethnic mix of the people in my vicinity, I feel sure that if anything was shouted out loud it would be jumped on and I'd certainly not be afraid to voice my views. I do understand that in some places and grounds however that for perceived safety reasons, some might be unwilling to do so but, it doesn't stop the individual noting seat numbers and reporting it.

[Collibosher70]

On 29/11/2018 at 12:25, eblair said:

and if your still doubting the need for, a quick glance on bentley's roof will change your mind 

Well that's a bit prejudiced 

[RumbleFox]

9 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

Crikey mate, you have just shattered my illusion of FT diversity.  It all tied nicely together (in my head) cos you are often v funny, which in itself is a stereotype of gay men (ie scathing wit being common).

 

Funny how an offhand comment gets remembered.

I feel bad now.

[davieG]

LEICESTER CITY SHOW THEIR COMMITMENT TO OUR FOOTBALL LEADERSHIP DIVERSITY CODE

 

https://www.thefa.com/news/2020/nov/27/leicester-city-fldc-case-study-27112020