Climate Change - a poll

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

1 hour ago, Otis said:

£60 billion from the UK.

Yet £0.5 billion & £2 billion  from the farmers and pensioners is needed to prevent economic collapse. 

 

Oh and China are paying nothing. 

 

Did someone say grift.

 

Meanwhile our energy bills are increasing again. 

Eventually our population will come to understand this is the greatest power grab / money grift since the Roman Empire.

 

I'm personally amazed at how easily fairly intelligent people can be so manipulated 🙄

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

On 18/11/2024 at 17:48, fox_up_north said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm sort of glad of where I live. I'm actively trying to contribute less to climate change by eating around 40% less meat and having solar. 

 

I'll likely by dead by the worst of it and at least I tried. 

My god, I've just posted a comment which sums up this sort of rubbish.  You are another ticked off success for the grifting globalists.  A fully brainwashed individual and I genuinely feel sorry for you.......

[bovril]

1 hour ago, FoxyPV said:

There's always money for war but never for helping people

sounds a bit like disinformation 

 

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/what-does-government-spend-money

 

 

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Eventually our population will come to understand this is the greatest power grab / money grift since the Roman Empire.

 

I'm personally amazed at how easily fairly intelligent people can be so manipulated 🙄

... or at least hundreds of millions of people will die, vast amounts of infrastructure will be lost, and those around now in general and those who didn't see it is a problem in particular will be blamed.

 

The lack of respect for nature and the underestimation of the consequences it can throw at us amazes me, too. And if we don't adapt, it will show us exactly why it, not other humans, are the biggest devastators around.

[SecretPro]

41 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

My god, I've just posted a comment which sums up this sort of rubbish.  You are another ticked off success for the grifting globalists.  A fully brainwashed individual and I genuinely feel sorry for you.......

Get yourself over the the Tin Foil Hat thread. 

[Otis]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

According to the IMF, globally the world subsidised the fossil fuel industry by $7 trillion in 2022 alone. 

 https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2023/08/24/fossil-fuel-subsidies-surged-to-record-7-trillion

 

Sending some of that money to renewables would provide the benefit of cheaper energy, cleaner air and reduce the severity of climate change. 

 

Unfortunately there are so many economies (the entire middle East, Russia and it's neighbouring - stans, and the US) who's entire economy relies on these industries. Sadly people don't notice these subsidies and make the assumption that green is more expensive when it's actually a fraction of the price. 

 

It's all money and governments looking after themselves. 

Why not take a look at how much renewables are subsidised by...

 

Spoiler alert - it's huge.

[Zear0]

4 minutes ago, Otis said:

Why not take a look at how much renewables are subsidised by...

 

Spoiler alert - it's huge.

By that amount? 

[Otis]

3 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

By that amount? 

In percentage terms it's far greater. 

[Zear0]

1 minute ago, Otis said:

In percentage terms it's far greater. 

Where are you getting that from? 

 

I can find a verified $420bn a year on the BBC which is somewhat less than $7tn given the fossil fuels. 

 

[Otis]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Well, considering the current rise in global average temperature is both a. Indisputable and b. Correlates entirely with human activity, I would say that yes, changing the way we do things (which does cost money, and look above at far greater "wastes" of money) can help, yes.

You mean the human activity that has improved living standards and quality of life for pretty much everyone on the planet. 

I'm not sure anyone would be happy to go back to living in dark ages standards. 

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, Otis said:

You mean the human activity that has improved living standards and quality of life for pretty much everyone on the planet. 

I'm not sure anyone would be happy to go back to living in dark ages standards. 

It's a false dichotomy to suggest that we have to.

 

It is perfectly possible to shift to energy generation methods that guarantee the future while maintaining our quality of life.

 

And if folks are (rightly) unhappy about going back to living in Stone Age standards, then they should consider that not making the transition will most likely lead there.

[Otis]

27 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's a false dichotomy to suggest that we have to.

 

It is perfectly possible to shift to energy generation methods that guarantee the future while maintaining our quality of life.

 

And if folks are (rightly) unhappy about going back to living in Stone Age standards, then they should consider that not making the transition will most likely lead there.

Totally agree, but perhaps not at the speed being proposed. Making people poorer and colder doesn't sit very well or get people on side with the overall goal. 

And sending poor peoples money in first world countries to rich people in third world countries to squander is disgusting. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Otis said:

Totally agree, but perhaps not at the speed being proposed. Making people poorer and colder doesn't sit very well or get people on side with the overall goal. 

And sending poor peoples money in first world countries to rich people in third world countries to squander is disgusting. 

We don't really have a choice there. Maybe twenty years ago we would have, but things are accelerating and consequences approaching too fast now.

 

I don't directly disagree with the short piece on the human condition here, but at the same time - again - the laws of thermodynamics really don't allow us much choice; either everyone gets on board (or are helped on board) or a great many people suffer and die, at least.

 

We can bask in our denial as to the gravity of the problem if we like, but the Earth doesn't tend to entertain such delusions for long and treats them harshly.

[Otis]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

We don't really have a choice there. Maybe twenty years ago we would have, but things are accelerating and consequences approaching too fast now.

Suppose it depends on what level of consequences you believe will occur. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Otis said:

Suppose it depends on what level of consequences you believe will occur. 

It surely does.

 

And given what we've already seen in terms of increased extreme weather, drought and flooding in various areas across the Earth, even with an overall temperature increase around 1.5 degrees C less than it is expected to be underthe current course, it is a rather safe assumption that those consequences will be at best ruinous regionally with millions of deaths and hundreds of millions of refugees... and at worst, globally catastrophic.

[Trav Le Bleu]

It's incredible that the developing nations don't realise they're the most vulnerable and that nations who are mostly desert are going to become even more desert.

 

Equally incredible the greed of the developed nations who won't make sacrifices now for the future.

 

Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die.

[Otis]

11 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

It's incredible that the developing nations don't realise they're the most vulnerable and that nations who are mostly desert are going to become even more desert.

 

Equally incredible the greed of the developed nations who won't make sacrifices now for the future.

 

Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die.

Feel free to pay more tax to help contribute. 

https://advisingfamilies.org/uk/information-portal/managing-money/can-i-pay-more-tax-voluntarily/

 

[Otis]

23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It surely does.

 

And given what we've already seen in terms of increased extreme weather, drought and flooding in various areas across the Earth, even with an overall temperature increase around 1.5 degrees C less than it is expected to be underthe current course, it is a rather safe assumption that those consequences will be at best ruinous regionally with millions of deaths and hundreds of millions of refugees... and at worst, globally catastrophic.

It really isn't. 

It's just your apocalyptic prediction. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 minutes ago, Otis said:

Feel free to pay more tax to help contribute. 

https://advisingfamilies.org/uk/information-portal/managing-money/can-i-pay-more-tax-voluntarily/

 

I'd rather we all paid enough taxes so that stuff actually worked and that said taxes were used to fund quality services and worthy causes, instead of funding people in made up jobs for the boys and girls.

 

There is a notable correlation between countries that pay high taxes and perceived happiness.

[Otis]

1 minute ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I'd rather we all paid enough taxes so that stuff actually worked and that said taxes were used to fund quality services and worthy causes, instead of funding people in made up jobs for the boys and girls.

I'm with you there.

[leicsmac]

44 minutes ago, Otis said:

It really isn't. 

It's just your apocalyptic prediction. 

It's not just mine, and though I have said this many times before, it's not an outcome I state for its own sake, nor one I seek to state for political capital.

 

It is simply the outcome that has both enough likelihood and enough negative consequence that it needs to be considered and acted against accordingly.

 

I'm not pushing catastrophism here (and nor is any climate scientist vaguely well versed in the matter) for any sake other than to try to prevent it, out of an obligation to the future of our species and those we share the planet with. If people don't buy into that, then fair enough - but should the worst come to pass, then don't expect the legacy of those who chose denial and short term self interest to be anything other than one of the lowest contempt.

Edited 24 November 2024 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

... and I wonder what the poor souls in Pontypridd, Valenica and the like think about the current regularity and extremity of serious weather events and what is driving them?

 

Apparently sympathy and empathy and willigness to prevent when the disaster is not immediately personal (and perhaps not even then) is in short supply, judging by some of the discussion here.

[Otis]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

... and I wonder what the poor souls in Pontypridd, Valenica and the like think about the current regularity and extremity of serious weather events and what is driving them?

 

Apparently sympathy and empathy and willigness to prevent when the disaster is not immediately personal (and perhaps not even then) is in short supply, judging by some of the discussion here.

Pretty sure they have had major floods several times in Pontypridd over the last 100 years.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Otis said:

Pretty sure they have had major floods several times in Pontypridd over the last 100 years.

... and I'm pretty sure that they haven't had two of such severity within four years of each other and the events in Valencia are pretty much unprecedented.

 

I suppose we could bask in denial and say they were just unlucky, horrible to be them, though.

[Otis]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

... and I'm pretty sure that they haven't had two of such severity within four years of each other and the events in Valencia are pretty much unprecedented.

 

I suppose we could bask in denial and say they were just unlucky, horrible to be them, though.

Flooding

edit

The village has frequently suffered flooding from the river, the most serious of which claimed the life of an Afon Street resident in 1960.^{[citation needed]} (Afon is Welsh for 'river'.) Flooding also occurred in 1921, 1929, and 1979, after which the Rhondda River bank was reinforced. "The 1979 flood overtopped the banks of the River Rhondda just downriver from Trehafod, and floodwaters entered the low-lying areas of Colliery Street and Great Street, flooding many properties. A major river improvement scheme was completed in 1985, but the village has still suffered significant flooding since, including in February 2020.^[