Climate Change - a poll

[ozleicester]

Where do we stand.. is itreal... did we cause it?

Edited 17 July 2023 by ozleicester

[leicsmac]

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep21691

 

"Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total Greenhouse Gases and GMTA (Global Mean Temperature Anomalies). Specifically, it is confirmed that the former, especially CO₂, are the main causal drivers of the recent warming."

 

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac2966?454b5589_page=2&70ef0ed6_page=2&c0d8a10d_page=2&454b5589_page=2&70ef0ed6_page=3&c0d8a10d_page=2

 

"We conclude with high statistical confidence that the scientific consensus on human-caused contemporary climate change—expressed as a proportion of the total publications—exceeds 99% in the peer reviewed scientific literature."

 

I'm really not sure how much of a discussion it now is beyond cranks in the Flat Earth mould pushing it for their own gain.

[marbles]

[leicsmac]

As an addendum, while the cause and effects are not a matter for anywhere approaching serious debate, how we deal with the matter certainly is.

Edited 17 July 2023 by leicsmac

[Lionator]

It’s too late.

[leicsmac]

24 minutes ago, Lionator said:

It’s too late.

Could well be, but we have to treat it as if it isn't, because the alternative really isn't a path we can or should take.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Unsure myself. 
 

It’s an excellently convenient way for governments to bring about extra taxation any how.

 

I’m certainly not bothered enough by it to start recycling, never mind buy an electric car, have an air source heat pump, or limit what beef I eat (😂) or the number of flights I take a year. 
 

The whole ‘solution’ to our “carbon footprint” is a complete waste of time. Maybe once these have actually become affordable to the general public, and maybe once the infrastructure required doesn’t make more “carbon footprint” than running your diesel car, will I start to consider it.

[The Year Of The Fox]

https://twitter.com/jamesmelville/status/1678293471944142848?s=48&t=ralALwC6Sj_md3KdE8IskA

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Unsure myself. 
 

It’s an excellently convenient way for governments to bring about extra taxation any how.

 

I’m certainly not bothered enough by it to start recycling, never mind buy an electric car, have an air source heat pump, or limit what beef I eat (😂) or the number of flights I take a year. 
 

The whole ‘solution’ to our “carbon footprint” is a complete waste of time. Maybe once these have actually become affordable to the general public, and maybe once the infrastructure required doesn’t make more “carbon footprint” than running your diesel car, will I start to consider it.

Fair enough, a very human, honest response with the propensity for even basic empathy not extending beyond ones own line of sight spatially or temporally . No window dressing.

[The Year Of The Fox]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair enough, a very human, honest response with the propensity for even basic empathy not extending beyond ones own line of sight spatially or temporally . No window dressing.

It’s a bit like Covid really. (I’m not saying Covid wasn’t real)

 

Until our politicians take it seriously, why the bloody hell would I, and put myself severely out of pocket to pay for things that don’t work properly? Air and Ground Source heat pumps will become the next major, ‘have you been missold….’

 

 

[leicsmac]

40 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

It’s a bit like Covid really. (I’m not saying Covid wasn’t real)

 

Until our politicians take it seriously, why the bloody hell would I, and put myself severely out of pocket to pay for things that don’t work properly? Air and Ground Source heat pumps will become the next major, ‘have you been missold….’

 

 

The problem is real, but the powers that be aren't taking it seriously enough, yes.

 

Thing is though, like Covid and its body count, the issue itself is not in question and is taking lives. Only this one will take lives on a scale orders of magnitude greater.

 

That's the great tragedy here, should things go horribly Pete Tong - we know the issue and how best it might be addressed, it's just not happening on the way it needs to be.

[davieG]

For me it seems like it's part of the natural weather cycle of the earth but then on top of that massively influenced by human activity making it considerably worse.

 

 

[Daggers]

I for one welcome our new weather front overlords.

[leicsmac]

Additionally, I have just about lost count of the amount of "unprecedented" or "once in x where x is a very big number years" events that have happened this year alone. Currently half a billion to a billion people are under serious flood risk across Asia, and most of Europe and a third of the US are seeing temperatures unheard of on a regular basis.

 

I'd say again that the veracity of the change itself really isn't in question like the way the Earth is an oblate spheroid, but our response to it clearly is a matter of debate.

Edited 17 July 2023 by leicsmac

[Bellend Sebastian]

I sat in lectures on this that were part of my degree 30 years ago and what was predicted in those is panning out pretty much to the dotted 'i'.

 

Admittedly, they only talked about the physical effects of human activity on the climate, and made no predictions about how a threat to life on earth would become part of an absurd culture war, but if I'd sat down and thought about what silly sausages people can be about anything that suggests that the way live our lives might even need looking at, I should probably have predicted that myself.

 

I agree with Lionator - I think we're almost certainly f**ked

[Dunge]

Yes it’s real;

Yes it’s human-influenced;

No we’re not ****ed, but Putin shuffling off this mortal coil soon and giving the world better chance to focus on it would certainly help.

[westernpark]

5 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Yes it’s real;

Yes it’s human-influenced;

No we’re not ****ed, but Putin shuffling off this mortal coil soon and giving the world better chance to focus on it would certainly help.

Unfortunately then we will likely be distracted by China and US relations. However, one interesting note is that there does seem to be at least ostensible relations between the two regarding climate issues. I believe John Kerry is or has recently been to China.

[Finnegan]

10 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I sat in lectures on this that were part of my degree 30 years ago and what was predicted in those is panning out pretty much to the dotted 'i'.

 

Admittedly, they only talked about the physical effects of human activity on the climate, and made no predictions about how a threat to life on earth would become part of an absurd culture war, but if I'd sat down and thought about what silly sausages people can be about anything that suggests that the way live our lives might even need looking at, I should probably have predicted that myself.

 

I agree with Lionator - I think we're almost certainly f**ked

 

It's what Don't Look Up got right to be fair. 

 

There will come a point where the danger is real enough and immediate enough that the Billionaires who actually can do something about it will start engaging because the horror will be right in front of their face and threatening their lives in their lifetimes. 

 

But by this point it probably will be too late. 

 

The world either needs massive global revolution or for some of the richest people in the world to stumble on a means of cleaner wealth and power generation that they find more profitable than fossil fuels. 

 

If Charles Koch stumbled upon some magic new element tomorrow that he could monopolise that'd power the planet without killing the environment we'd be fine. But wind and hydro are no good, they're everywhere, you can't exclusively own that. It's no good for the ruling class. 

[Lionator]

23 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Yes it’s real;

Yes it’s human-influenced;

No we’re not ****ed, but Putin shuffling off this mortal coil soon and giving the world better chance to focus on it would certainly help.

You cannot blame Putin for climate change lol, it's far more to do with global neo-capitalist market economies which put profit ahead of everything else including your health, and the health of the planet. There's a really good video that did the rounds by Konstantin Kisin, which basically said that you aren't addressing climate change if you're not addressing causes and maintainers of global inequality and poverty. Your average Joe from Braunstone to Beijing ain't gonna care about the planet if they can't feed their family.   

Edited 17 July 2023 by Lionator

[yorkie1999]

Cause the climate is changing, the earth doesn't stay the same forever,  20000 years ago we had glaciers in the penines and wales, where have they gone? Maybe they melted because the sabre tooth tigers weren't eating enough woolly mamoths or maybe it was because the climate changed. If humans are so egotistical that they believe they can change things, they're living on another planet, or rather they should do. Yes, the scientists will put names to things and study things to the nth degree cos that's what they do, and the climate people will want everyone to abandon material goods and live on broad beans we grow in the garden, but nothing will actually change. All i know is that the plants and trees have gone mental this year and if that's due to the climate changing, there's going to be plenty of food in the future, we may even see banana trees in Leicester.

[Dunge]

16 minutes ago, Lionator said:

You cannot blame Putin for climate change lol, it's far more to do with global neo-capitalist market economies which put profit ahead of everything else including your health, and the health of the planet. There's a really good video that did the rounds by Konstantin Kisin, which basically said that you aren't addressing climate change if you're not addressing causes and maintainers of global inequality and poverty. Your average Joe from Braunstone to Beijing ain't gonna care about the planet if they can't feed their family.   

I’d agree to the extent that sustainability - both ecologically and economically - is the challenge of this century. But I disagree in that solving climate change is about scientific solutions and worldwide cooperation, investment and invention. For me a lot of things get tagged on to the environmental movement that drag it down, such as animal rights and societal inequality.

[The Year Of The Fox]

15 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Cause the climate is changing, the earth doesn't stay the same forever,  20000 years ago we had glaciers in the penines and wales, where have they gone? Maybe they melted because the sabre tooth tigers weren't eating enough woolly mamoths or maybe it was because the climate changed. If humans are so egotistical that they believe they can change things, they're living on another planet, or rather they should do. Yes, the scientists will put names to things and study things to the nth degree cos that's what they do, and the climate people will want everyone to abandon material goods and live on broad beans we grow in the garden, but nothing will actually change. All i know is that the plants and trees have gone mental this year and if that's due to the climate changing, there's going to be plenty of food in the future, we may even see banana trees in Leicester.

Amen

 

It wasn’t us flying around the earth that melted the Penine glaciers back then was it. Or me heating up my two up two down with a gas fired boiler.

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

For me it seems like it's part of the natural weather cycle of the earth but then on top of that massively influenced by human activity making it considerably worse.

 

 

Weather and climate are two entirely different things. There is nothing 'natural' about the climate chaos being unleashed, it is entirely of anthropogenic origin. 

 

Interestingly a similar poll was conducted on this forum some years ago. I find it staggering that that there are still those that think that this is "just nature" and almost as questionable as those that think it isn't real. 

Edited 17 July 2023 by Line-X

[Lionator]

4 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’d agree to the extent that sustainability - both ecologically and economically - is the challenge of this century. But I disagree in that solving climate change is about scientific solutions and worldwide cooperation, investment and invention. For me a lot of things get tagged on to the environmental movement that drag it down, such as animal rights and societal inequality.

I think the societal inequality thing comes into the cooperation/investment side of things?

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Amen

 

It wasn’t us flying around the earth that melted the Penine glaciers back then was it. Or me heating up my two up two down with a gas fired boiler.

No, it was the ushering in of an interglacial phase called the Holocene predominately due to Milankovitch Cycles whilst the shrinkage and eventual disappearance of ice sheets in the "Pennines" was an event that spanned 15,700 years. I'll leave you to ponder why this may be significant. 

Edited 17 July 2023 by Line-X