1969 Moon Landing

[marty78]

This isn't a picture from the Apollo mission that is in question?

Oh I see they only faked some Moon landings.

You can all search the Internet yourselves but you will find the original Apollo 11 photos of the Earth on descent and ascent, Various Earth photos from the Lunar surface including long exposure ultraviolet photos which enable the identification of stars that prove location but best of all is a picture of Harrison "Jack" Schmitt with the American and Earth in the background.

I won't bother with this unless anyone has any proper evidence backed up with science from reliable sources as we are just pissing in the wind.

[Zingari]

Oh I see they only faked some Moon landings.

You can all search the Internet yourselves but you will find the original Apollo 11 photos of the Earth on descent and ascent, Various Earth photos from the Lunar surface including long exposure ultraviolet photos which enable the identification of stars that prove location but best of all is a picture of Harrison "Jack" Schmitt with the American and Earth in the background.

I won't bother with this unless anyone has any proper evidence backed up with science from reliable sources as we are just pissing in the wind.

it's the "manned" ones that are the subject of the discussion

[BoneDog]

Trying not to get involved again. No doubt I will in a bit, but for now I've still not caught up with the thread.

As for photos of earth from space it looks like are being mentioned, I believe they are all taken by unmanned equipment. Apart from the ones taken from the ISS of course but that's not far enough away from earth to get the distance shots we often see, so the distance shots are obviously not taken by human hands.

[fleckneymike]

Trying not to get involved again. No doubt I will in a bit, but for now I've still not caught up with the thread.

As for photos of earth from space it looks like are being mentioned, I believe they are all taken by unmanned equipment. Apart from the ones taken from the ISS of course but that's not far enough away from earth to get the distance shots we often see, so the distance shots are obviously not taken by human hands.

But in order for the hoax video posted by whoareyaa to be true the missions must have been manned because that video claims the astronauts were in low earth orbit, at the same height in fact as the ISS. As you correctly point out that isn't far enough away to see the 'whole' of the earth so the astronauts must have been further out, say 130,000 miles out.

[fleckneymike]

Here is a far clear explanation from someone who has bothered to do research (something which hoaxers are loathed to do).

Bart Sibrel's video (the one posted by whoareyaaa) argues that this television footage was made in low Earth orbit, rather than on the way to the Moon. The images of Earth, he claims, are either black cardboard with a round hole cut out, or a transparency. Note right there that these are mutually exclusive - If he doesn't know, then he is just guessing without evidence. In fact, there is evidence, but it doesn't support either of Sibrel's conjectures.

The website & videos referenced show that the behavior of the Earth images is in no way consistent with something attached to the window itself. I looked at thecontent of the Earth images.

In the first day-and-a-half of the mission there were three live television transmissions from the Apollo 11 spacecraft, which showed the Earth out the window. At about the same time as each of these transmissions, the astronauts also photographed the Earth using a 70mm Hasselblad camera. These provide exceptionally high resolution images. Here are frame grabs from each of the three transmissions, with a photograph taken at about the same time for comparison.

Note that the cloud patterns match:

AS11-36-5341 (HR)

AS11-36-5366 (HR)

AS11-36-5373 (HR)

(Image courtesy of Earth Sciences and Image Analysis Laboratory, NASA Johnson Space Center.)

As you can readily see, the photographs show the whole planet with spherical shading rather than just a portion. In the hi-res versions you can see features - most of North America appears in all three images. Were these images prepared in advance and hung out the window to stage a hoax? This is a testable question. If this was an authentic transmission, and the TV transmission was going out live, and the hi-res photographs match the TV images, then the weather patterns visible in the photographs must match the local weather measured across the country at the time the images were taken.

So, do the weather patterns match?

Here is the precipitation map for the continental United States on July 17, 1969 (the date of the 2nd & 3rd transmissions):

Source: NOAA

Here is a cropped version of a hi-res scan of AS11-36-5373 showing North America:

The features I highlighted are:

A.) Summer monsoons over Arizona

B.) Rain over the Midwest

C.) Rain over western Canada

D.) A cold front moving down from Canada into the northcentral and northeastern US.

E.) Summer thunderstorms over the southeastern states

F.) A separate storm cell over southern Florida

G.) A separate storm system over the Texas gulf coast.

The features match. The photographs and the live video from the spacecraft were definitely taken on the afternoon of July 17, 1969 and both cameras were a long, long way from low Earth orbit.

[Zingari]

But in order for the hoax video posted by whoareyaa to be true the missions must have been manned because that video claims the astronauts were in low earth orbit, at the same height in fact as the ISS. As you correctly point out that isn't far enough away to see the 'whole' of the earth so the astronauts must have been further out, say 130,000 miles out.

i'm not sure here , but i think the accusation made in the Bart Sibrel film is that the pictures being shown are of a transparency stuck to the window , and not of the earth at all .

there is a point in the film where an arm or something gets between the camera and the window , which would be impossible if the camera was right up to the window .

but i'm not dead cert

[marty78]

2 Apollo 11 pictures:

An image of Earth and the Lunar surface, the lunar terrain shown, centred at 85 degrees longitude 3 degrees north latitude in the area of Smyth's Sea.

http://nssdc.gsfc.na...s11_44_6552.jpg

A second image of Earth and the Lunar module (Eagle) on it way to dock with Columbia where the Lunar rocks were transferred to Columbia and Eagle left in orbit around the Moon.

http://nssdc.gsfc.na...s11_44_6642.jpg

Schmitt on the Moon with a flag and Earth in the background. (Apollo 17)

http://mm04.nasaimag...in&profileid=21 and enlarged on Wikipedia

[whoareyaaa]

2 Apollo 11 pictures:

An image of Earth and the Lunar surface, the lunar terrain shown, centred at 85 degrees longitude 3 degrees north latitude in the area of Smyth's Sea.

http://nssdc.gsfc.na...s11_44_6552.jpg

A second image of Earth and the Lunar module (Eagle) on it way to dock with Columbia where the Lunar rocks were transferred to Columbia and Eagle left in orbit around the Moon.

http://nssdc.gsfc.na...s11_44_6642.jpg

Schmitt on the Moon with a flag and Earth in the background. (Apollo 17)

http://mm04.nasaimag...in&profileid=21 and enlarged on Wikipedia

Thanks for the input but I am more concerned about the fact that when the Astronuats we're on the Moon Surface they did not plan or think... right lets get a shot of the Earth, they could quite easily take pictures/videos when leaving Earth and in low orbit but why not from the Moons surface?

Im not saying that this is a hoax at all as it could of all been 100% legit, but surely you would do the above after travelling all that way...

They found it very important to video the Earth why they was ascending and decending yet not when they are on the surface 'Fishy'

[fleckneymike]

Thanks for the input but I am more concerned about the fact that when the Astronuats we're on the Moon Surface they did not plan or think... right lets get a shot of the Earth, they could quite easily take pictures/videos when leaving Earth and in low orbit but why not from the Moons surface?

Im not saying that this is a hoax at all as it could of all been 100% legit, but surely you would do the above after travelling all that way...

They found it very important to video the Earth why they was ascending and decending yet not when they are on the surface 'Fishy'

Why would you spend your time going to the moon to only then spend the entire time looking directly up and away from the very thing you've come to study?

[marty78]

Thanks for the input but I am more concerned about the fact that when the Astronuats we're on the Moon Surface they did not plan or think... right lets get a shot of the Earth, they could quite easily take pictures/videos when leaving Earth and in low orbit but why not from the Moons surface?

Im not saying that this is a hoax at all as it could of all been 100% legit, but surely you would do the above after travelling all that way...

They found it very important to video the Earth why they was ascending and decending yet not when they are on the surface 'Fishy'

The thing is they didn't go to the Moon to capture the Earth. They can see that from anywhere in space. Why would it be a priority? They probably didn't expect people to believe in a hoax many years later. There is plenty of pictures from the surface including the third one in my post.

[Vacamion]

Thanks for the input but I am more concerned about the fact that when the Astronuats we're on the Moon Surface they did not plan or think... right lets get a shot of the Earth, they could quite easily take pictures/videos when leaving Earth and in low orbit but why not from the Moons surface?

Im not saying that this is a hoax at all as it could of all been 100% legit, but surely you would do the above after travelling all that way...

They found it very important to video the Earth why they was ascending and decending yet not when they are on the surface 'Fishy'

I can imagine that they thought they would be going back a bit sooner than 50 years plus and that therefore the "nice to have" stuff like shots back to Earth was not a priority...

[whoareyaaa]

I can imagine that they thought they would be going back a bit sooner than 50 years plus and that therefore the "nice to have" stuff like shots back to Earth was not a priority...

Why would you spend your time going to the moon to only then spend the entire time looking directly up and away from the very thing you've come to study?

The thing is they didn't go to the Moon to capture the Earth. They can see that from anywhere in space. Why would it be a priority? They probably didn't expect people to believe in a hoax many years later. There is plenty of pictures from the surface including the third one in my post.

Clearly not, it would take them 30 seconds at the most to capture the shot something which you would think would be on their list along with collecting rock samples... their was nothing else their to explore apart from craters, it;s not like their was monkeys swinging around on tree's.

[Zingari]

Why would you spend your time going to the moon to only then spend the entire time looking directly up and away from the very thing you've come to study?

Why would you hit golf balls and jump salutes ?

[fleckneymike]

Why would you hit golf balls and jump salutes ?

Because by the sixth trip the public have grown bored and you've realised that there is **** all else to do.

None of your points are evidence that man has never visited the moon, we've now got down to a level of criticism bordering on the desperate. Every point has been disproved and used to prove we did visit the moon.

I am still waiting on the VAB evidence by the way.

[Zingari]

Because by the sixth trip the public have grown bored and you've realised that there is **** all else to do.

None of your points are evidence that man has never visited the moon, we've now got down to a level of criticism bordering on the desperate. Every point has been disproved and used to prove we did visit the moon.

I am still waiting on the VAB evidence by the way.

That's OK , we're still waiting for someone other than NASA astronauts from 40 odd years ago to pass through it

Have you any idea when that will be ?

[fleckneymike]

Unless China decide to proceed with their plans I can't see any scientific reason to send men back. The future is Mars and unmanned probes.

[Zingari]

Unless China decide to proceed with their plans I can't see any scientific reason to send men back. The future is Mars and unmanned probes.

What about tourist trips to the moon , I thought that was going to be the big new thing ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2161646/Excalibur-Almaz-prepares-tourist-trips-moon-500k-mile-round-trip-cost-100m.html

[Zingari]

Was James Collier lying when he said he'd written to Grumman and Boeing for the plans designs and paperwork for the rover and LEM and was told that all the paperwork had been lost and destroyed ?

This stuff cost billions and he says all the paperwork is lost , is this really true ?

[fleckneymike]

Was James Collier lying when he said he'd written to Grumman and Boeing for the plans designs and paperwork for the rover and LEM and was told that all the paperwork had been lost and destroyed ?

This stuff cost billions and he says all the paperwork is lost , is this really true ?

I don't know. Can you find any evidence to support his claims?

[marko]

Was James Collier lying when he said he'd written to Grumman and Boeing for the plans designs and paperwork for the rover and LEM and was told that all the paperwork had been lost and destroyed ?

This stuff cost billions and he says all the paperwork is lost , is this really true ?

Yes! He's a lying scumbag!

[Zingari]

I don't know. Can you find any evidence to support his claims?

Surely it's the other way round , you should supply evidence that they do still exist ,because I believe he did write to these corporations.

If you don't believe him why don't you do the same and prove him wrong ?

[Leicester_Numan]

Erm. Do you not keep up with the news? Just this week we had pictures of those very things.

So we can see the other side of the galaxy in perfect clarity but we can't get a clear picture of the moon's surface? I'm not saying the landings weren't real, just asking the question what have they got to lose by giving everyone a clear picture of the landing sites? I don't believe that can't be done

[marko]

Surely it's the other way round , you should supply evidence that they do still exist ,because I believe he did write to these corporations.

If you don't believe him why don't you do the same and prove him wrong ?

Ok, let's turn that little gem around. If you don't believe NASA put men on the moon why don't you do the same and prove them wrong?

[fleckneymike]

Surely it's the other way round , you should supply evidence that they do still exist ,because I believe he did write to these corporations.

If you don't believe him why don't you do the same and prove him wrong ?

Why should I provide evidence to counter someone else's unsubstantiated claims?

You can always go and see a lunar lander at a museum if you want.

[fleckneymike]

So we can see the other side of the galaxy in perfect clarity but we can't get a clear picture of the moon's surface? I'm not saying the landings weren't real, just asking the question what have they got to lose by giving everyone a clear picture of the landing sites? I don't believe that can't be done

Space telescopes don't work like traditional telescopes that you get at the end of piers, the vast majority of images we get from hubble are in fact artistic impressions of what the telescope sees after they interpret the spectrums etc that they detect. Hubble is only 347 miles into space, the moon is nearly 240,000 miles. Huble doesn't just zoom in and look at things.