Danish Cartoon

[sackmycook]

[IDEA OR IKEA]

Is that meant to be racist? ADMIN

[wonderboy]

Is that meant to be racist? ADMIN

what against goats ? probably not

[Guest]

My interpretation is "Oh look, see how the Danes don't mind having the piss taken out of them in a cartoon".

This is why I haven't deleted it.

That doesn't mean I agree with the sentiment, as a fictitious cartoon character loosely based on historical fact is not the same as being disrespectful towards a spiritual leader, no matter how much of an over-reaction people think it is. Especially in the current climate.

I was waiting to see how this thread developed before acting. Give it 10 minutes, and I might well bin it.

[IDEA OR IKEA]

My interpretation is "Oh look, see how the Danes don't mind having the piss taken out of them in a cartoon".

This is why I haven't deleted it.

That doesn't mean I agree with the sentiment, as a fictitious cartoon character loosely based on historical fact is not the same as being disrespectful towards a spiritual leader, no matter how much of an over-reaction people think it is. Especially in the current climate.

I was waiting to see how this thread developed before acting. Give it 10 minutes, and I might well bin it.

Ok thanks but i think its distasful in its nature and meaning

[Guest]

Ok thanks but i think its distasful in its nature and meaning

I agree, but decided to see what happened first. Perhaps if it had been posted in the other thread along the lines of "would the Danes be offended by this"? then I wouldn't give it a second glance.

[sackmycook]

Firstly, i want to say: you guys are way to jittery. but hey thats what terrorism does.

Secondly, i posted it as a joke: 'Danish Cartoon' people would look assuming that i have posted some offending cartoons. When in fact i have posted a cartoon of Dane Hagar the Horrible. Which (whilst not drawn by Danes) is to all intents and purposes a Danish cartoon.

Thirdly, i put one mans journey of rape, loot and pillage. If you have ever seen a Hagar cartoon you will know this is what he does.

[wonderboy]

Firstly, i want to say: you guys are way to jittery. but hey thats what terrorism does.

Secondly, i posted it as a joke: 'Danish Cartoon' people would look assuming that i have posted some offending cartoons. When in fact i have posted a cartoon of Dane Hagar the Horrible. Which (whilst not drawn by Danes) is to all intents and purposes a Danish cartoon.

Thirdly, i put one mans journey of rape, loot and pillage. If you have ever seen a Hagar cartoon you will know this is what he does.

spot on i remember captain pugwash with master bates, seaman staines, roger the cabin boy etc this is ok then ? i was a kid and i knew what these mean .

so are you telling us that we as grown men and women cannot handle a cartoon that is quite obviously a joke that is an insult.

we can make decisions for ourselves and dont need other people telling us what is acceptable to see and what is not.

[Guest]

spot on i remember captain pugwash with master bates, seaman staines, roger the cabin boy etc this is ok then ? i was a kid and i knew what these mean

Apparently one of the tabloids made that up, as nobody remembers any of the characters apart from Captain Pugwash, so we all fell for it hook line and sinker, excusing the slight unintentional pun.

[IDEA OR IKEA]

spot on i remember captain pugwash with master bates, seaman staines, roger the cabin boy etc this is ok then ? i was a kid and i knew what these mean .

so are you telling us that we as grown men and women cannot handle a cartoon that is quite obviously a joke that is an insult.

we can make decisions for ourselves and dont need other people telling us what is acceptable to see and what is not.

I agree, but without a level of censorship or restraint it could be chaos, would you be saying this if someone put some porn pictures on here - if you want to read/see tasteless stuff there are places for it, this is a LCFC forum that can be read by all ages

[Guest]

Apparently one of the tabloids made that up, as nobody remembers any of the characters apart from Captain Pugwash, so we all fell for it hook line and sinker, excusing the slight unintentional pun.

It was the Guardian!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Pugwash

[Rincewind]

Change the picture to one wearing a blue and white scarf and change the words as such

Picts=Forest fans Celts= Man Utd fans Gaels= Derby fans.

Would you find this more acceptable?

I never found the cartoon offensive but it is not aimed at a specific thing like the one in the Dutch paper.

I am not Danish or Muslim so it is difficult to appreciate the offence it may cause but if I say something and somebody objects then I respect their right to object and I will be careful what I say if the circumstances appear again. It is the 'I believe in free speech and therefore will say what I like, sod anyone that I offend' attitude that is wrong.

Well that's my opinion anyway.

[Jon the Hat]

Change the picture to one wearing a blue and white scarf and change the words as such

Picts=Forest fans Celts= Man Utd fans Gaels= Derby fans.

Would you find this more acceptable?

I never found the cartoon offensive but it is not aimed at a specific thing like the one in the Dutch paper.

I am not Danish or Muslim so it is difficult to appreciate the offence it may cause but if I say something and somebody objects then I respect their right to object and I will be careful what I say if the circumstances appear again. It is the 'I believe in free speech and therefore will say what I like, sod anyone that I offend' attitude that is wrong.

Well that's my opinion anyway.

The problem with that approach is you end up being careful what you say around those who shout loudest , not necessarily those who are most affected by what you say. If you say something I don't like and I respond aggresively you may not ask it again, and therefore my aggressive reponse will have been reinforced and your behaviour changed. Thus we end up in a society were views are repressed and misgivings are held privately until they reach a level where a flashpoint kicks off something bad...

[Head Honcho]

The problem with that approach is you end up being careful what you say around those who shout loudest , not necessarily those who are most affected by what you say. If you say something I don't like and I respond aggresively you may not ask it again, and therefore my aggressive reponse will have been reinforced and your behaviour changed. Thus we end up in a society were views are repressed and misgivings are held privately until they reach a level where a flashpoint kicks off something bad...

Good response.

We cannot allow these violent and aggresive demonstrations to change the way we express ourselves.

If the protestations were in a more dignified manner, then maybe I might have thought the cartoons were out of order and offensive, but to be honest the demonstrations have deflected a lot of the controversy away from the cartoons and onto how Muslim conduct themselves when something offends them.

I get offended everyday, but I don't go out and start a bloody riot because of it.

[davieG]

The problem will always be how you define free speech and coming to terms with what is acceptable, as I stated earlier we, in Europe have evolved our definition of free speech over the centuries, that's why newspapers and television know they can get away with lampooning politicians and western religions.

It wasn't that long ago, in Europe that people found an exposed female breast pornographic now you are able to switch the television on late at night to see it's gone way beyond that as lines are being continually redrawn.

The present scenario sees the a high proportion of Islamic people upset and seriously offended with certain portrayals of their religious prophet, I have to admit I've not seen them. These cartoons are however justified by many in the West as 'Freedom of Speech', yet these same people are seriously offended by those people displaying banners calling for death and destruction. A question! Isn't that their interpretation of freedom of speech? Their culture obviously finds that less offensive than they do the lampooning of their religious prophet.

We can't proclaim on the one hand we can say what we like, it's freedom of speech and then when people display something we don't like say arrest them. You could say their placards are illegal, that may be so, but they are illegal because we in the West made them so. You might also ponder on an act that's currently going through our parliament that is likely to make cartoons like that illegal in this country.

The realty is that we have to continue to revise what is acceptable and what isn't.

An analogy to demonstrate change in attitudes affected me last summer when I came across a small child that appeared lost and upset; in the past I would have quite happily gone to that child's rescue. But in these days of increasing public airings of paedophilia I found it necessary for my own protection to go and find a female to resolve the issue.

Standards in all walks of life have continued to change, some for the better many for the worse in my opinion and will for as for far as I can see.

[Head Honcho]

The problem will always be how you define free speech and coming to terms with what is acceptable, as I stated earlier we, in Europe have evolved our definition of free speech over the centuries, that's why newspapers and television know they can get away with lampooning politicians and western religions.

It wasn't that long ago, in Europe that people found an exposed female breast pornographic now you are able to switch the television on late at night to see it's gone way beyond that as lines are being continually redrawn.

The present scenario sees the a high proportion of Islamic people upset and seriously offended with certain portrayals of their religious prophet, I have to admit I've not seen them. These cartoons are however justified by many in the West as 'Freedom of Speech', yet these same people are seriously offended by those people displaying banners calling for death and destruction. A question! Isn't that their interpretation of freedom of speech? Their culture obviously finds that less offensive than they do the lampooning of their religious prophet.

We can't proclaim on the one hand we can say what we like, it's freedom of speech and then when people display something we don't like say arrest them. You could say their placards are illegal, that may be so, but they are illegal because we in the West made them so. You might also ponder on an act that's currently going through our parliament that is likely to make cartoons like that illegal in this country.

The realty is that we have to continue to revise what is acceptable and what isn't.

An analogy to demonstrate change in attitudes affected me last summer when I came across a small child that appeared lost and upset; in the past I would have quite happily gone to that child's rescue. But in these days of increasing public airings of paedophilia I found it necessary for my own protection to go and find a female to resolve the issue.

Standards in all walks of life have continued to change, some for the better many for the worse in my opinion and will for as for far as I can see.

I get your point davieg, but the majority of people were offended by both instances!

The protests are a complete over-reaction and because we have taken a tough stance on these hardliners preaching racial hatred they are going to use any excuse to get the masses onto the streets!

They need the coverage, it's like with The National Front in the 70's they were all over the media everytime you opened a paper it was NF this NF that, then all of a sudden, I don't know if it was premeditated or not but! Nothing, the NF were taken off the front pages and the they faded into obscurity and these hardliners are afraid of the same thing happening to them.

[Lemon Harpic]

An analogy to demonstrate change in attitudes affected me last summer when I came across a small child that appeared lost and upset; in the past I would have quite happily gone to that child’s rescue. But in these days of increasing public airings of paedophilia I found it necessary for my own protection to go and find a female to resolve the issue.

I'm interested to know what you would have done if you were unable to find a 'female' to resolve the issue? Would you have just walked away from the distressed kid for fear of being labelled a perv?

[The People's Hero]

The problem with that approach is you end up being careful what you say around those who shout loudest , not necessarily those who are most affected by what you say. If you say something I don't like and I respond aggresively you may not ask it again, and therefore my aggressive reponse will have been reinforced and your behaviour changed. Thus we end up in a society were views are repressed and misgivings are held privately until they reach a level where a flashpoint kicks off something bad...

Spot on.

[davieG]

I get your point davieg, but the majority of people were offended by both instances!

I'm not sure that's the case it depends on your definition of majority - in the case of the cartoons the majority of Muslims were, the placards/violence the majority of those it was aimed at were but in both instances those not directly involved were probably not offended.

The protests are a complete over-reaction and because we have taken a tough stance on these hardliners preaching racial hatred they are going to use any excuse to get the masses onto the streets!

I agree about the over reaction, again taking a hardline can be done in many ways; in my view any imediate attempt to intervene would have exacerbated the situation it is better to act afterwards, an example being the guy dressed as a suicide bomber ( how unreal is that) being arrested and sent back to jail. I note that he was offended by these cartoons but was not offended by dealing in drugs, how hypoctitical is that.

They need the coverage, it's like with The National Front in the 70's they were all over the media everytime you opened a paper it was NF this NF that, then all of a sudden, I don't know if it was premeditated or not but! Nothing, the NF were taken off the front pages and the they faded into obscurity and these hardliners are afraid of the same thing happening to them.

I wasn't particularly excusing either party just observing that they all need to take a step back and work together on this. As someone who was raised in a very religeous environment but now has a secular view of society I'd like to think that I can take an objective view of this. People through out history have been manipulated by a small minority in all aspects of life I'm sure it wont stop now.

[davieG]

I'm interested to know what you would have done if you were unable to find a 'female' to resolve the issue? Would you have just walked away from the distressed kid for fear of being labelled a perv?

I would have taken up the challenge and gone to their aid, it makes me very sad that as a family man who has raised 3 children that something like that even crosses my mind, but it does. Not only do we, all of us have to think about what we say we also have to think about how our actions might be interpreted.

That's why when I have a spare ticket for LCFC I insist it's someone over 18, my wife thinks I'm getting paranoid about it.

[shen]

I'm not in the least offended by that cartoon Although I didn't actually find it funny I usually love the Hagar cartoons though. I won't be repeating myself in this thread though, as I feel I've said most of what I feel in the other one...

[MC Prussian]

The whole affair just displays how the media is in control of the masses...

I have yet to receive a factual proof that there really was an outraged majority of muslims over a simple cartoon. This ridiculous episode was just an ignition for the Iran and Syria could use to manipulate the population in their favour.

Stupid Danes for publishing such a joke, stupid political leaders on the other side.

[Rincewind]

I understand the argument against what I said but I think common sense comes into it as well Perhaps I didn't put it across quite right and I can't think of how to at the moment.

thinking about that child brings to mind something that happened a few years agp. I was living up Safforn Lane way and a small boy asked me to see him across the road. I had to hold his hand until he was safely across. I don't think I could do that now without somebody getting the wrong impression if they saw it.

I'm sure when I was little my mum used to say don't cross the road on your own, find an adult. Although when very little us young uns were always within mums eyesight.

[shen]

The whole affair just displays how the media is in control of the masses...

I have yet to receive a factual proof that there really was an outraged majority of muslims over a simple cartoon. This ridiculous episode was just an ignition for the Iran and the Libanon could use to manipulate the population in their favour.

Stupid Danes for publishing such a joke, stupid political leaders on the other side.

Yes, stupid Danes, because we ALL agreed that Jyllands Posten should've published that Cartoon. I'm actually getting very tired about people slating 'us' for showing little or no respect towards Islam culture when at the same time they don't respect, acknowledge and/or want to understand our way of using freedom of speech in our culture.

And how do you want to get 'factual proof that there was an outraged majority of muslims over a simple cartoon' ?? Does the fact that 3 embassies in 3 different Muslim countries being attacked not show you enough proof ?

I do however totally agree with your assesment that this is an utterly ridiculous situation and that it has been grossly manipulated.

[Lemon Harpic]

thinking about that child brings to mind something that happened a few years agp. I was living up Safforn Lane way and a small boy asked me to see him across the road. I had to hold his hand until he was safely across. I don't think I could do that now without somebody getting the wrong impression if they saw it.

I'm sure when I was little my mum used to say don't cross the road on your own, find an adult. Although when very little us young uns were always within mums eyesight.

Ever listen to 'Dreams of Children' by The Jam?

"I sat alone with the dreams of children"

Sounds well dodgy nowadays...