How far will it all go?

[davieG]

If the government insist on playing God with our kids then at least at things like nativities and such like, have a professional videoer that would make copies for all parents etc. Its crap but at least no one gets accused of wanting to perv over kids

Would that work though? pirate copies would end up on a perve equivalent of Ebay, Aghhhhh I've become one of the PC brigade, burn all those camera's, ban pictures of anyone under the age of 16 in any type of media. Whilst we're at it what about those pervy footballs holding hands with those kiddies, Ban all activities, yes even school where it involves adults with children, yes ban parents from living with their children.

Wait!!!! Deathside was right all along ban children, no targets for the perves and eventually no perves, we'd all be safe and at ease at last.

Mmmmmmmmmmm Sounds to good to be true there must be a flaw in this idea somewhere?

[Janx]

Would that work though? pirate copies would end up on a perve equivalent of Ebay, Aghhhhh I've become one of the PC brigade, burn all those camera's, ban pictures of anyone under the age of 16 in any type of media. Whilst we're at it what about those pervy footballs holding hands with those kiddies, Ban all activities, yes even school where it involves adults with children, yes ban parents from living with their children.

Wait!!!! Deathside was right all along ban children, no targets for the perves and eventually no perves, we'd all be safe and at ease at last.

Mmmmmmmmmmm Sounds to good to be true there must be a flaw in this idea somewhere?

Mr Death is rarely wrong! <_< Hey theres always a first time!

[Daggers]

I got moaned at by some jobsworth at Melton Swimming baths the other saturday for attempting to take a picture (on my mobile) of my 3 year old daughter, it was the first time id seen her swim and this old hag had a right pop at me. I argued back and said there were no other kids in the shot and that I wanted to take a picture of MY child swimming, she said I had to get a consent form, I told her to bollocks (politely)

When she'd gone I took one anyway - so sue me! I want my child to have memories of her childhood and look back at photos and videos, how dare people try and take that away

Our kids school has banned photography!

I am not allowed to digitally record any of the key moments of their life there. Seeing as all there work is binned at the end of each year too it means they'll leave with nothing but memories of SAT exams and assessment boxes.

It seems an awful shame.

As far as kissing kids goes, the head at the school I taught at in Caracas gave all the girls a kiss when they were collecting their certificates and whathaveyou's ~ and it has to rank as one of the most squemishly embarrassing moment I can recall. The bloke had no need to do it, he could have shaken their hands like he did with the boys ... it was awful. The faces on the girls ranged from shock [initially] to dread [as the later ones went to get theirs].

If a vicar kissed me I'd punch his bloody lights out!

[Dr The Singh]

Our kids school has banned photography!

I am not allowed to digitally record any of the key moments of their life there. Seeing as all there work is binned at the end of each year too it means they'll leave with nothing but memories of SAT exams and assessment boxes.

It seems an awful shame.

As far as kissing kids goes, the head at the school I taught at in Caracas gave all the girls a kiss when they were collecting their certificates and whathaveyou's ~ and it has to rank as one of the most squemishly embarrassing moment I can recall. The bloke had no need to do it, he could have shaken their hands like he did with the boys ... it was awful. The faces on the girls ranged from shock [initially] to dread [as the later ones went to get theirs].

If a vicar kissed me I'd punch his bloody lights out!

Even if she was a lady Vicar and was fit?????

[Katy]

Would that work though? pirate copies would end up on a perve equivalent of Ebay, Aghhhhh I've become one of the PC brigade, burn all those camera's, ban pictures of anyone under the age of 16 in any type of media. Whilst we're at it what about those pervy footballs holding hands with those kiddies, Ban all activities, yes even school where it involves adults with children, yes ban parents from living with their children.

Wait!!!! Deathside was right all along ban children, no targets for the perves and eventually no perves, we'd all be safe and at ease at last.

Mmmmmmmmmmm Sounds to good to be true there must be a flaw in this idea somewhere?

No it probably wouldnt work DG but some compromise needs to be reached. It's getting totally ridiculous, I can understand the need to protect children from preditors but is there any need to treat EVERY adult/parent like a pervert?

[davieG]

Our kids school has banned photography!

I am not allowed to digitally record any of the key moments of their life there. Seeing as all there work is binned at the end of each year too it means they'll leave with nothing but memories of SAT exams and assessment boxes.

It seems an awful shame.

As far as kissing kids goes, the head at the school I taught at in Caracas gave all the girls a kiss when they were collecting their certificates and whathaveyou's ~ and it has to rank as one of the most squemishly embarrassing moment I can recall. The bloke had no need to do it, he could have shaken their hands like he did with the boys ... it was awful. The faces on the girls ranged from shock [initially] to dread [as the later ones went to get theirs].

If a vicar kissed me I'd punch his bloody lights out!

I wasn't particularly defending this kiss, just using it as an example of how far we should move away from what was once considered the norm, I do believe removing him from his governer's position is way over the top.

As for kissing kids, well they don't even like their mums to kiss them in public, so it's less to do with the 'who is kissing' and more to do with just the fact of kissing.

[macbeth]

I wasn't particularly defending this kiss, just using it as an example of how far we should move away from what was once considered the norm, I do believe removing him from his governer's position is way over the top.

As for kissing kids, well they don't even like their mums to kiss them in public, so it's less to do with the 'who is kissing' and more to do with just the fact of kissing.

exactly; the issue of the actual kiss is secondary ; its the overblown reaction to quite innocent behaviour that is the worrying for males ( usually but not excusively) who feel as you said earlier either marginalised or worse viewed with increasing suspicion for perfectly innocent social behavior; surely sesible folk would know that truly despicable behaviour would most likely to be committed out of the spotlight of the public

[Daggers]

Even if she was a lady Vicar and was fit?????

There is only one lady vicar to my knowledge - and no, I would not kiss Dawn French.

I don't know if people are right in their assumption that naughty men do their business in private. I do think it is unacceptable for anyone to kiss anyone without their express permission. A kiss is not an acceptable form of encouragement or congratulations.

On top of this, the history of priests & vicars being involved in child abuse makes a sorry tale...some of which

1

2

3

4

5

6

Just because someone is a man of the cloth does not give them the authority to act as others would not. Abuse is built on the foundations of a relationship, and this is formed in public. The way to avoid this is to respect certain norms of behaviour, no touching no kissing. As a man I don't feel got at, I cuddle and kiss my kids ~ MY kids.

Why should I want the right to do it to other peoples kids as they are invariably smelly and /or sticky!

I agree, dealing with paedophilia has led to some mad reactions ... but arguing for the right to kiss little girls on the forehead is not the way to counter it.

[macbeth]

There is only one lady vicar to my knowledge - and no, I would not kiss Dawn French.

I don't know if people are right in their assumption that naughty men do their business in private. I do think it is unacceptable for anyone to kiss anyone without their express permission. A kiss is not an acceptable form of encouragement or congratulations.

On top of this, the history of priests & vicars being involved in child abuse makes a sorry tale...some of which

1

2

3

4

5

6

Just because someone is a man of the cloth does not give them the authority to act as others would not. Abuse is built on the foundations of a relationship, and this is formed in public. The way to avoid this is to respect certain norms of behaviour, no touching no kissing. As a man I don't feel got at, I cuddle and kiss my kids ~ MY kids.

Why should I want the right to do it to other peoples kids as they are invariably smelly and /or sticky!

I agree, dealing with paedophilia has led to some mad reactions ... but arguing for the right to kiss little girls on the forehead is not the way to counter it.

i'm paraphrasing ; but did you not say some while back that since returning from peru or some such place that you where much more " tactile" than previously and that british society was paranoid about any form of contact

[Nationwider]

I was minding my business

Lifting some lead off

The roof of the Holy Name church

It was worthwhile living a laughable life

To set my eyes on the blistering sight

Of a vicar in a tutu

He's not strange

He just wants to live his life this way

© Moz

[Daggers]

i'm paraphrasing ; but did you not say some while back that since returning from peru or some such place that you where much more " tactile" than previously and that british society was paranoid about any form of contact

With my mates ... not with strangers or children.

[macbeth]

With my mates ... not with strangers or children.

so if children grow up to view and react to any contact as disturbing how do they aquire the skill in later life........ i don't particularly like a lot of the touchy feely stuff myself but there is alot of over reaction here; i'm with davie g 100% on this one

ok so you have given eg.s of seedy vicars and i aint going to defend them; but the most dangerous person in a childs life regarding physical/sexual abuse are parents /siblings and close family members not balmy vicars planting a peck on the forehead

[Daggers]

so if children grow up to view and react to any contact as disturbing how do they aquire the skill in later life........ i don't particularly like a lot of the touchy feely stuff myself but there is alot of over reaction here; i'm with davie g 100% on this one

ok so you have given eg.s of seedy vicars and i aint going to defend them; but the most dangerous person in a childs life regarding physical/sexual abuse are parents /siblings and close family members not balmy vicars planting a peck on the forehead

The assumption that society is over-reacting to the touching and kissing menace is built on a premise that 'it never used to be this way'. We were never a touchy-feely society. The only people that ever used to display affection publicly in the 70's were football players, and they were slagged for being poofs.

I agree with you, sexual & physical assaults are more likely to happen in the home but that does not negate the fact that what this man did was pretty damn stupid; the reward for doing well in a Maths problem is not to kiss the child on the head. It was an irresponsible action for someone that should have known better.

As I said, I find the prohibition of photographing your own child to be a sad retrograde step, but the kissing of someone else's child has always been something that is taboo, and rightly so.

I think you two need a good hug

[macbeth]

The assumption that society is over-reacting to the touching and kissing menace is built on a premise that 'it never used to be this way'. We were never a touchy-feely society. The only people that ever used to display affection publicly in the 70's were football players, and they were slagged for being poofs.

I agree with you, sexual & physical assaults are more likely to happen in the home but that does not negate the fact that what this man did was pretty damn stupid; the reward for doing well in a Maths problem is not to kiss the child on the head. It was an irresponsible action for someone that should have known better.

As I said, I find the prohibition of photographing your own child to be a sad retrograde step, but the kissing of someone else's child has always been something that is taboo, and rightly so.

I think you two need a good hug

maybe we both need something

but as for your assertion that kissing strangers children has always been taboo ; surely you remember when election time came around , prospective MPs were kissing kids and babies by the thousand; it was viewed as an almost mandatory...mothers queued up to have robert kilroy silk kiss their little uns..........hmmm maybe they weren't someone elses kids in his case

[Cat Burger]

It's not just parents that don't understand why certain rules and guidelines are in place, children often can't understand it either. I work at a playscheme during school holiday and the children are 5-14. Such differences in what a female staff member is allowed to do compared to me include; allowing the small children to sit on their knee to colour or play board games if they want, or taking them to the toilets if they ask. Also the lads have a staff toilet, which is over the other side of the building.

A lot of the younger children can't understand why you won't let them sit on your knee, and I really find it hard to actually give them a reason. However, before I knew that it was a problem a 5 year old girl was sitting on my knee colouring in and at first, by instinct, I wouldn't let her. Eventually she just got up anyway, and I didn't really have the heart to tell her to get down... :pinch: Doh! After a couple of minuters her mum came in to pick her up...Now you'd expect her to wave at the child or something as a first act, but instead she crouched down to look under the table to see what I was doing! I wonder what she expected to see?

She obviously spoke to my boss because I was told never to allow a child to sit on my knee, the girls are allowed but not the lads.

Now I don't really understand that kind of reaction from the mother, but if there are guidelines in place to protect me from things like that, then I'm happy to adhere to them!

[davieG]

Well I think you're not 100% correct on two count's, but it does depend on when, where and how you were brought up.

I'll use myself as an example I was raised from the age of 5 to 17 from 1954 to 63 in a C of E boys home and I was kissed on the cheek/forehead by all manner of women, when it became a childrens home, i.e with girls I can assure you that those girls were 'kissed on the cheek/forehead like wise but also by men includeing vicars granted in both cases as a show of congratulations e.g birthdays, christmas, some notable achievement but never the less it did happen.

This did not turn me into someone who was comfortable using the kiss as a formal greeting to females I've since met in society, but I have noticed over the years an increasing use of this, demonstrated through my lads turnover of girlfriends who have all used this to greet me even on a first occasion. I've also noticed it as being a much more common practice in the social gatherings particulrly when meeting/greeting female work colleagues.

I will repeat the kiss and the vicar are not the significant aspects to that story it's the response of the establishment and the media in general to it and where it continues to lead to.

Some of the exclusions stated on here are horrifying.

[davieG]

It's not just parents that don't understand why certain rules and guidelines are in place, children often can't understand it either. I work at a playscheme during school holiday and the children are 5-14. Such differences in what a female staff member is allowed to do compared to me include; allowing the small children to sit on their knee to colour or play board games if they want, or taking them to the toilets if they ask. Also the lads have a staff toilet, which is over the other side of the building.

A lot of the younger children can't understand why you won't let them sit on your knee, and I really find it hard to actually give them a reason. However, before I knew that it was a problem a 5 year old girl was sitting on my knee colouring in and at first, by instinct, I wouldn't let her. Eventually she just got up anyway, and I didn't really have the heart to tell her to get down... :pinch: Doh! After a couple of minuters her mum came in to pick her up...Now you'd expect her to wave at the child or something as a first act, but instead she crouched down to look under the table to see what I was doing! I wonder what she expected to see?

She obviously spoke to my boss because I was told never to allow a child to sit on my knee, the girls are allowed but not the lads.

Now I don't really understand that kind of reaction from the mother, but if there are guidelines in place to protect me from things like that, then I'm happy to adhere to them!

My daughter's a primary school teacher in another county and she is not allowed to have physical contact with the children not even if they're are bawling their eyes and desperate for a hug. But the school do get good stat results.

[Rincewind]

It's gone from one extreme to another. I agree that when teachers used the slipper against bare bottoms and the like it was wrong. And showing too much affection to a child that's not your own is not on. But to stop the little actions of a peck on the cheek or holding or hugging a child when they are feeling sad is going too far. It is a natual instinct action for animals. Watch any wildlife program and you will see the mother nip the young when they do wrong or are in danger and take all sort of shit when the babies are being playful. Without it kids will grow up thinking showing any kind of emotion is wrong. There are young kids on the street today getting into trouble and I think a part of it stems from the fact that they were not shown any love when little. No bedtime story or a cuddle and goodnight kiss. Young children need this in development of their character. Without it they grow up cold towards others and not knowing how others feel when they do wrong. I could go on but I need a drink. I blame this urge on the kiss on the cheek one of my teachers gave me after she had had a drink 40 years ago.

[davieG]

It's gone from one extreme to another. I agree that when teachers used the slipper against bare bottoms and the like it was wrong. And showing too much affection to a child that's not your own is not on. But to stop the little actions of a peck on the cheek or holding or hugging a child when they are feeling sad is going too far. It is a natual instinct action for animals. Watch any wildlife program and you will see the mother nip the young when they do wrong or are in danger and take all sort of shit when the babies are being playful. Without it kids will grow up thinking showing any kind of emotion is wrong. There are young kids on the street today getting into trouble and I think a part of it stems from the fact that they were not shown any love when little. No bedtime story or a cuddle and goodnight kiss. Young children need this in development of their character. Without it they grow up cold towards others and not knowing howothers feel when they do wrong. I could go on but I need a drink.

And you were probably cuddled as a kid

[Daggers]

surely you remember when election time came around , prospective MPs were kissing kids and babies by the thousand; it was viewed as an almost mandatory...mothers queued up to have robert kilroy silk kiss their little uns.........

I remember them kissing babies ... but not 10yr old girls.

Also, I remember that this was an age when we as a society were indulging ourselves in actual witch-hunts, and prosecuting entire communities for witch-craft based child molestation. In comparison, I think the coverage of the vicar has been reasonable [well, in the papers I read].

[Daggers]

I will repeat the kiss and the vicar are not the significant aspects to that story it's the response of the establishment and the media in general to it and where it continues to lead to.

I can not find any response anywhere that is untoward? I've looked.

Teaching unions last night expressed sympathy with the vicar. Most advise their members to adopt a do-not-touch policy and are clear that kissing of any kind is inappropriate. Although there are few rules laid down for teachers, with the exception of a violent child likely to cause harm to himself or others, teachers are advised never to be on their own with a child and never to touch, in a reassuring or threatening manner.

the archdeacon of Lichfield, the Ven Chris Liley, ruled that Mr Barrett would not be the subject of disciplinary proceedings. But he advised the vicar that the kiss had been "inappropriate".

The man himself has said

Giving a child a kiss of congratulations is inappropriate in this day and age.

In fact, the only over the top response I can find is in the Mirror

A DEVOUT vicar has been hounded out of his school post

which, frankly, is not the case.

A full list of net-based news reports can be found HERE

A legitimate investigation has taken place into a complaint of behaviour that the man confessed to.

So, what response by the media and the establishment are the ones you are objecting to Davie? I'd like to see them

[macbeth]

ok

nail em all up

[davieG]

I can not find any response anywhere that is untoward? I've looked.

The man himself has said

In fact, the only over the top response I can find is in the Mirror which, frankly, is not the case.

A full list of net-based news reports can be found HERE

A legitimate investigation has taken place into a complaint of behaviour that the man confessed to.

So, what response by the media and the establishment are the ones you are objecting to Davie? I'd like to see them

Well the fact that it was reported at all as newsworthy and the coverage given is out of all proportion to the action, I believe he's been ask to resign as a governer purely because of this; is that not out of proportion ot the action?

Because of the reporting level and the governership loss this will only exascerbate and escalate the next time something of a similar nature occurrs and I guarantee the responses and punishments will continue to increase, this is a witch hunt that shows no sign of abating.

I think the feedback this thread has produced demostrates quite clearly the impact the reaction to these types of incidences is having which prompted my initial question of How far will it go?

[Alexikokopops]

I got moaned at by some jobsworth at Melton Swimming baths the other saturday for attempting to take a picture (on my mobile) of my 3 year old daughter, it was the first time id seen her swim and this old hag had a right pop at me. I argued back and said there were no other kids in the shot and that I wanted to take a picture of MY child swimming, she said I had to get a consent form, I told her to bollocks (politely)

When she'd gone I took one anyway - so sue me! I want my child to have memories of her childhood and look back at photos and videos, how dare people try and take that away

It's stupid, I used to work as a lifeguard and we weren't allowed to let parents take pictures of their children, even if it was a private party, because we could get in proper trouble for it.

Also if a kid cut themselves, as well as asking the kid if they reacted to plasters (apparently some kids do) we also had to ask them (preferably their parent if they're around) if it was ok if we put it on for them, because we had to touch them to do it.

I can see it now, the pedo getting a sly touch of a cut toe while he's applying the plastic.

I'm glad we have to get permission to do it.

[Daggers]

ok

nail em all up

I've got a hammer

Well the fact that it was reported at all as newsworthy and the coverage given is out of all proportion to the action, I believe he's been ask to resign as a governer purely because of this; is that not out of proportion ot the action?

I don't agree with the reporting, if it had been suppressed then others would be arguing for freedom of information and inquiring as to the forces at work vetting news stories.

I agree totally that it should never have got that far. The woman, I assume, is a sad product of our claims culture. If she had got her way and got him sacked then she'd be lined up for a couple of good NOTW exclusives and a decent day in court seeking money in compensation.

As for his resignation, I think that if he had a better relationship with the 'under stress' Head then this wouldn't have ever got this far.

Because of the reporting level and the governership loss this will only exascerbate and escalate the next time something of a similar nature occurrs and I guarantee the responses and punishments will continue to increase, this is a witch hunt that shows no sign of abating.

No one has been punished (great word though, exacerbate). He has resigned from a post that he was leaving in a couple of weeks time. I see no witch hunt - just a sad, greedy and stupid little woman.

Ultimately, we are all singing from the same school hymn book here