Head Honcho Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Now I'm not a great fan of Islam or any religion for that matter but I have to side with the PC on this occasion. Asking him to do it in the first place was a bit insensitive and I'm sure the Israeli's would rather he wasn't. Typical bloody Met
Jon the Hat Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Now I'm not a great fan of Islam or any religion for that matter but I have to side with the PC on this occasion. Asking him to do it in the first place was a bit insensitive and I'm sure the Israeli's would rather he wasn't. Typical bloody Met Don't know what everyone is getting upset about. If you push to get an ethnically broad based police force then you have to accept the people who come with it. Also you wouldn't expect someone in his position to do the best job, so it would be inappropriate to assign him to the role in the first place.
Dr The Singh Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Don't know what everyone is getting upset about. If you push to get an ethnically broad based police force then you have to accept the people who come with it. Also you wouldn't expect someone in his position to do the best job, so it would be inappropriate to assign him to the role in the first place. Disagree, police should be inpartial to ethnicity, stature, wealth, creed, sex, disability, the law is for everyone, and should be impartial to everyone. The officer should resign, if he cannot do his duty!!!
davieG Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Disagree, police should be inpartial to ethnicity, stature, wealth, creed, sex, disability, the law is for everyone, and should be impartial to everyone. The officer should resign, if he cannot do his duty!!! Fully agree Mr Singh. Do we want our police to have to complete a tick list of people's they are prepared to protect when we recruit them?
Daggers Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 The argument would have extended to the policing of the miners strike, where officers stood over the other side of the line from their friends and family. The duty of the police is to uphold the law without fear of favour - to have withdrawn this man for the reasons given are simply not good enough. Does that give the public the right not to cooperate with an officer because they fear reprisals from people if they are seen talking to an officer from an ethnic background of a certain persuasion? If you are a copper - you are a copper, and you do your damn job.
hairy Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Disagree, police should be inpartial to ethnicity, stature, wealth, creed, sex, disability, the law is for everyone, and should be impartial to everyone. The officer should resign, if he cannot do his duty!!! Totally agree.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Disagree, police should be inpartial to ethnicity, stature, wealth, creed, sex, disability, the law is for everyone, and should be impartial to everyone. The officer should resign, if he cannot do his duty!!! I'd disagree with that. Same goes for the army - any individual soldier who didn't want to go to Iraq would have been punished for absconding or treason, whatever the appropriate charge is, when clearly they should have been given a medal for common sense.
Thracian Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Fully agree Mr Singh. Do we want our police to have to complete a tick list of people's they are prepared to protect when we recruit them? And you wonder why this wasn't picked up at the job interview. More of the positive discrimination that denies any chance to those most suitable for the job. Time this country had some proper leadership.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 I'd disagree with that. Same goes for the army - any individual soldier who didn't want to go to Iraq would have been punished for absconding or treason, whatever the appropriate charge is, when clearly they should have been given a medal for common sense. Soldiers can't really pick and choose which wars they fight based on political beliefs though surely? You either serve your country and take your orders or you don't get involved in the first place.
Janx Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Now I'm not a great fan of Islam or any religion for that matter but I have to side with the PC on this occasion. Asking him to do it in the first place was a bit insensitive and I'm sure the Israeli's would rather he wasn't. Typical bloody Met Absolute cockwash! Hes a copper and paid to do a coppers job, check out that the Association of Muslim Police officers say on this point...they think this blokes wrong as well! ANd what would he have had to say if they had asked him NOT to do it because of his beliefs and religion, you can bet the "race" card would have been pulled out then.
Thracian Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Soldiers can't really pick and choose which wars they fight based on political beliefs though surely? You either serve your country and take your orders or you don't get involved in the first place. I really don't understand how Muslims being interviewed for a job could "choose" to serve a country, much less a Christian country. From what I've read Muslims serve Allah and are dead against any man-made system of Government because, by definition, it is not a sytem laid down by the Almighty. They believe the World should follow Islamic doctrine and that all others should play a tax. On that basis how can a Muslim believer in the Islamic doctrine choose to serve any country with a non-Islamic administration. And especially a country whose ruler and Head of State are Christians. Perhaps someone would explain.
Head Honcho Posted 5 October 2006 Author Posted 5 October 2006 Absolute cockwash! Hes a copper and paid to do a coppers job, check out that the Association of Muslim Police officers say on this point...they think this blokes wrong as well! ANd what would he have had to say if they had asked him NOT to do it because of his beliefs and religion, you can bet the "race" card would have been pulled out then. Not bad 9 posts before an abusive one! We are getting civilised-shame about Jankers I am slowly being turned on this one but I'll bet there are precendents out there and it's a case of where do you draw the line! Do Jewish officers have to work on the sabbath? Are Muslim officers allowed more breaks during ramadan for prayer? Does an Arsenal fan have to police a Spurs game? Is fish served in the canteen on Fridays for Catholic officers? Bit tongue in cheek the last 2 but you get what I mean! We are a multi-cultural society and our services need to reflect that and so in some circumstances dispensations need to be considered! Don't Sikh officers have a special dispensation about the wearing of helmets?
Janx Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Not bad 9 posts before an abusive one! We are getting civilised-shame about Jankers I am slowly being turned on this one but I'll bet there are precendents out there and it's a case of where do you draw the line! Do Jewish officers have to work on the sabbath? Are Muslim officers allowed more breaks during ramadan for prayer? Does an Arsenal fan have to police a Spurs game? Is fish served in the canteen on Fridays for Catholic officers? Bit tongue in cheek the last 2 but you get what I mean! We are a multi-cultural society and our services need to reflect that and so in some circumstances dispensations need to be considered! Don't Sikh officers have a special dispensation about the wearing of helmets? I am just SICK and tired of PC in the general terms, our country is going TOO far the wrong way, nobody knows where the boundaries are anymore. Unfortunately for you, not that I am sure you are bothered, that I read this after a belter of a similiar "heated debate" in our office.
Thracian Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Not bad 9 posts before an abusive one! We are getting civilised-shame about Jankers I am slowly being turned on this one but I'll bet there are precendents out there and it's a case of where do you draw the line! Do Jewish officers have to work on the sabbath? Are Muslim officers allowed more breaks during ramadan for prayer? Does an Arsenal fan have to police a Spurs game? Is fish served in the canteen on Fridays for Catholic officers? Bit tongue in cheek the last 2 but you get what I mean! We are a multi-cultural society and our services need to reflect that and so in some circumstances dispensations need to be considered! Don't Sikh officers have a special dispensation about the wearing of helmets? Which all emphasises the difficulties of enforced/contrived multi-culturalism but still doesn't answer my question.
Rincewind Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Pehaps a comprimise could have been reached. He could tell his CI that was uncomfortable with that particular duty and they may have reassigned him to traffic or desk duties Also he could have lied and said he had got a dodgy stomach and did not be somewhere with no loo available if needed in a hurry.
Dr The Singh Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Don't Sikh officers have a special dispensation about the wearing of helmets? Yes, SIkhs are allowed to wear a turban instead of a hat but the turban must be that of a police identity, ie must have badge on etc!! Not going into the faith, the turban is the form of the 'khalsa' identity and has no justification on morals or personal beliefs. But even christian police officers work on xmas, and jewish officers work on the sabbath in Israel, becuase it's there duty!! Otherwise on those days who will be policing!!
Janx Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 I simply dont agree.... If two lets say Israelis from the embassy were having a ding dong outside with two Muslim lads, would this PC not have turned up and stopped the procedings, he is paid to do a job to uphold the law. Surely that is irrespective of any belief system??? It dumbfounds me
Daggers Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 ...a belter of a similiar "heated debate" in our office. There's nothing better than a mass-debate, or the recycling of an old pun
Head Honcho Posted 5 October 2006 Author Posted 5 October 2006 I am just SICK and tired of PC in the general terms, our country is going TOO far the wrong way, nobody knows where the boundaries are anymore. Unfortunately for you, not that I am sure you are bothered, that I read this after a belter of a similiar "heated debate" in our office. No one's as fed up of it as me matey, but sometimes you have to be reasonable. Here's a scenario for you: Some funamentalists out there kidnap the officers family and threaten to kill them unless he obeys them!! He plants a bomb and hundreds of Jews are killed. Imagine the outcry "what was a muslim officer guarding the Israeli embassy for in the first place"
Dr The Singh Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 I am just SICK and tired of PC in the general terms, our country is going TOO far the wrong way, nobody knows where the boundaries are anymore. Unfortunately for you, not that I am sure you are bothered, that I read this after a belter of a similiar "heated debate" in our office. I agree, there's one rule for one, and one for another, the 'do gooders' are being selectively pampering minorities etc becuase they don't want to offend etc but are then alienating the majority!! What needs to be done has to be good for the nation, yes it's multicutural and in multivutural Britain everyone has to be treated equally, no favouritism!!!! I watched a programme yesterday called 'ghetto britian' and it covered Bradford.....shockingly, over 50% of all muslims kids under 8 cannot speak english!!! There's households that don't speak english and don't consider it a neccessity!!!
Thracian Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 Pehaps a comprimise could have been reached. He could tell his CI that was uncomfortable with that particular duty and they may have reassigned him to traffic or desk duties Also he could have lied and said he had got a dodgy stomach and did not be somewhere with no loo available if needed in a hurry. I'd like my question answered before hearing about compromise. Because my understanding of the Islamic viewpoint is that a Muslim police officer acting on behalf of a Christian country's man-made Government government doesn't figure at all and the man should be protected from himself. It is utterly contrived. But if it does figure then, yes, we should perhaps consult with the Islamic Spokesman for Compromise. And explain to him what our nation's police force requires and how it would only be by his compromise that a follower of Islamic doctrine could possibly serve it. And would he wish to sanction that? Surely Ultra could clarify the right or wrong of what I say.
Dr The Singh Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 No one's as fed up of it as me matey, but sometimes you have to be reasonable. Here's a scenario for you: Some funamentalists out there kidnap the officers family and threaten to kill them unless he obeys them!! He plants a bomb and hundreds of Jews are killed. Imagine the outcry "what was a muslim officer guarding the Israeli embassy for in the first place" I don't get it, he's a british officer, doing his duty, what's wrong with that!! The problem with that scenario is that you have labelled the officer a muslim first, rather then a police officer first!!
Head Honcho Posted 5 October 2006 Author Posted 5 October 2006 Don't Sikh officers have a special dispensation about the wearing of helmets? Yes, SIkhs are allowed to wear a turban instead of a hat but the turban must be that of a police identity, ie must have badge on etc!! Not going into the faith, the turban is the form of the 'khalsa' identity and has no justification on morals or personal beliefs. But even christian police officers work on xmas, and jewish officers work on the sabbath in Israel, becuase it's there duty!! Otherwise on those days who will be policing!! So the answer is yes they do have a special dispensation based on thier religion I may be wrong but isn't the helmet primarily used for health and safety?
Dr The Singh Posted 5 October 2006 Posted 5 October 2006 I'd like my question answered before hearing about compromise. Because my understanding of the Islamic viewpoint is that a Muslim police officer acting on behalf of a Christian country's man-made Government government don't figure at all and the man should be protected from himself. It is utterly contrived. But if it does figure then, yes, we should perhaps consult with the Islamic Spokesman for Compromise. It's not so black and white Thracian!!! Obviously there are different degrees on how religious people really are, the 'pure' would be like the taleban, and the 'moderate' would be relatively non practicising!! At this moment most are moderate muslims, hence do not fulfill the qurans requests to the fullist and have there own independant thoughts on how things are etc.
Head Honcho Posted 5 October 2006 Author Posted 5 October 2006 I don't get it, he's a british officer, doing his duty, what's wrong with that!! The problem with that scenario is that you have labelled the officer a muslim first, rather then a police officer first!! I used the words Muslim officer because his family would have been kidnapped because he was a Muslim officer and not a police officer!
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