Academy win 4-1

[lildave3]

He definitely stood out from the rest today, but not for the reasons I was expecting. When Mattock went down injured and got some treatment in the first half, every single player on the pitch went to the sidelines and had a teamtalk with their respective managers while taking on drinks apart from Gradel who stood with his hands on his hips on the other side of the pitch. The team spent the whole time yelling at him to either track back or make supporting runs when he wasn't doing so. I can appreciate his goals record but his attitude seems a bit suspect and there are other players with 100% attitudes in that team who might get towards the first team quicker for this reason, I would imagine.

And telling a member of the crowd to fock off was just ridiculous.

Of course this is just one game and I'll be trying to get along to more in future to get a proper reflection of him.

I didn't hear that Whereabouts were you standing?

[Fez of Mahrez]

I didn't hear that Whereabouts were you standing?

On the halfway line. It was about 15 minutes into the game. Gradel was right next to us, complaining at the ref, the guy next to me (the furthest up on the side before the rope ended, was there with what looked like his son, about 15 or so) told him to shut up and Gradel told him to fock off.

[Thracian]

He definitely stood out from the rest today, but not for the reasons I was expecting. When Mattock went down injured and got some treatment in the first half, every single player on the pitch went to the sidelines and had a teamtalk with their respective managers while taking on drinks apart from Gradel who stood with his hands on his hips on the other side of the pitch. The team spent the whole time yelling at him to either track back or make supporting runs when he wasn't doing so. I can appreciate his goals record but his attitude seems a bit suspect and there are other players with 100% attitudes in that team who might get towards the first team quicker for this reason, I would imagine.

And telling a member of the crowd to fock off was just ridiculous.

Of course this is just one game and I'll be trying to get along to more in future to get a proper reflection of him.

I think you've got a proper reflection. I mentioned last season about his temperament and, particularly, his pointless afters with the referee after decisions he disagreed with. I expected him to have matured this season.

But it sounds as if his involvement close to the first team - and his possible/probable frustration at a lack of opportunity when we have a problem on the right - has provoked the wrong reaction.

Smith, Gradel, Sheehan, O'Grady sound as if they've all had their difficulties tempermentally. And all of them might be argued to have got frustrated having been on the fringe of the team.

This is bound to happen when, particularly, creative players get overlooked for people who look far less skillful for work solidly and do their appointed task for the team.

And, if Kelly was a workmanlike player, then they are the sort of players he's most likely to choose in a contest with the creative but temperamental sorts.

Trouble is, you end up with a hardworking side that has little dor no flair. A team that lacks the imagination to break down massed defences as we have.

Somehow, the boss has got to apprectiate skill players while grdually pursuading them or educating them into a team attitude. Most will respond if they're encouraged.

Porter is an example not only of what I mean but to the young rectionaries I've mentioned. Porter is skillful. But he relishes the working-for-the-team bit and that makes him useful at all times in the game, whether he is having a particularly good match individually or not.

When guys like Gradel and Ryan Smith struggled individually, they were/are not much good for the team either.

Anyway, that's my feelings on the matter. Might be wide of the mark. But as a temperamental individual myself, that's somewhere close to how I think it might be.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I think King might be his kind of player. And MacKay definitely.

The other thing is, you can tell they have belief in themselves. At one point just after we went 2-1 up they went straight on the attack and after the attack died down, Lycett yelled at the midfield "let's keep the ball in their half". I've played a fair bit of football and you don't say that unless you're confident you're by far the better side. They were, and they then kept the ball in the Villa half for most of the second half and scored a couple more goals.

[Thracian]

I think King might be his kind of player. And MacKay definitely.

The other thing is, you can tell they have belief in themselves. At one point just after we went 2-1 up they went straight on the attack and after the attack died down, Lycett yelled at the midfield "let's keep the ball in their half". I've played a fair bit of football and you don't say that unless you're confident you're by far the better side. They were, and they then kept the ball in the Villa half for most of the second half and scored a couple more goals.

It's been a pronounced characteristic of Beaglehole's side. They never sit on a lead but just keep pouring forward.

Some teams resist better than others but so often there comes a point when the opposition is overwhelmed.

They only think about winning. It doesn't matter is its Aston Villa or anyone else.

And with guys like Chambers on the bench they've every reason to be confident. Glad you rated King, Odihambo and McKay so highly.

[lookwhaticando]

Mattcok got sent off.

Lycett sounds quality - but we've too many CB's as it is.

Does anyone know where that Jay Smedley lad went? I thought he was an academy regular?

[lildave3]

Does anyone know where that Jay Smedley lad went? I thought he was an academy regular?

Pretty sure that he is now too old for the under 18's. Might be wrong though.

[lookwhaticando]

Pretty sure that he is now too old for the under 18's. Might be wrong though.

Well that's his careeer buggered then, along with poor Dodds'

This lack of a proper reserve team is just stupid.

Something needs to be done... who's willing to form a charitable enterprise to run a reserve league in the midlands? I'm game...

[lildave3]

Well that's his careeer buggered then, along with poor Dodds'

This lack of a proper reserve team is just stupid.

Something needs to be done... who's willing to form a charitable enterprise to run a reserve league in the midlands? I'm game...

What other teams haven't got a reserve team? I presume Derby and Cov because of the friendlies with us but if there is enough, can't they just form a league of their own?

[lookwhaticando]

What other teams haven't got a reserve team? I presume Derby and Cov because of the friendlies with us but if there is enough, can't they just form a league of their own?

The ex-premiership teams all fell out of the reserve league are no longer able to play their team in the Premier League reserves league...

So ourselves, Derby and Coventry... I think Norwich and Ipswich probably have reserve teams. You'd imagine Birmingham and WBA would have reserve teams, too. Leeds must surely have one. You could probably form a league with 4 to 6 teams without too much trouble as far as finding teams with a reserve squad. They wouldn't particularly have to be from our own league, either - perhaps some other local sides would like to participate?

[Thracian]

What cheeses me off is that we knew the situation with the Reserves and should have done something about it in the close season.

[Brummie-FOX]

Good to see the Youth team doing really well

Ps. How do you get a picture under your text, or aren't Boot Cleaners aloud them

[Daggers]

Good to see the Youth team doing really well

Ps. How do you get a picture under your text, or aren't Boot Cleaners aloud them

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showuser=3212 then click on "avatar options"

Oh, welcome :thumbsup:

[Brummie-FOX]

oooh thankyou!

Now what about the ones below your message?

Like you have the Nazi one..

[Daggers]

oooh thankyou!

Now what about the ones below your message?

Like you have the Nazi one..

Anti-nazi, thank you very much.

Sent you a PM, go to the same page and click on 'Edit My Sig'

[ithuriel]

i was standing over by the corner flag , between the pitches so i never heard any of gradels moaning.

i went to the rutland arms afterwards because my mouth was a bit dry

[Jonbluefox9]

I think you've got a proper reflection. I mentioned last season about his temperament and, particularly, his pointless afters with the referee after decisions he disagreed with. I expected him to have matured this season.

But it sounds as if his involvement close to the first team - and his possible/probable frustration at a lack of opportunity when we have a problem on the right - has provoked the wrong reaction.

Smith, Gradel, Sheehan, O'Grady sound as if they've all had their difficulties tempermentally. And all of them might be argued to have got frustrated having been on the fringe of the team.

This is bound to happen when, particularly, creative players get overlooked for people who look far less skillful for work solidly and do their appointed task for the team.

And, if Kelly was a workmanlike player, then they are the sort of players he's most likely to choose in a contest with the creative but temperamental sorts.

Trouble is, you end up with a hardworking side that has little dor no flair. A team that lacks the imagination to break down massed defences as we have.

Somehow, the boss has got to apprectiate skill players while grdually pursuading them or educating them into a team attitude. Most will respond if they're encouraged.

Porter is an example not only of what I mean but to the young rectionaries I've mentioned. Porter is skillful. But he relishes the working-for-the-team bit and that makes him useful at all times in the game, whether he is having a particularly good match individually or not.

When guys like Gradel and Ryan Smith struggled individually, they were/are not much good for the team either.

Anyway, that's my feelings on the matter. Might be wide of the mark. But as a temperamental individual myself, that's somewhere close to how I think it might be.

Gradel's had this attitude for a long time now, before he was ever close to making a break through into the first team. He is definitely a player who could do with going out on loan and playing first team football for a lower division side because some players at that level won't tolerate attitudes like his. If he doesn't pull his weight in League One or Two then he'll be told to by senior players. The Academy staff that were on the sidelines on Saturday like to praise players because Academy football is a learning curve but even they were furious with Gradel during the moment I mentioned before. It may be due to him being one of the older players in the team now, I don't know, because he seemed a lot more quiet when training with our senior players but whatever it is, it's something that he needs to work on because team mates will soon get tired with being told what to do by someone who at times doesn't do what he's told himself.

[Thracian]

Do you think he'll end up a nearly guy because of it JBF?

[Babylon]

I think you've got a proper reflection. I mentioned last season about his temperament and, particularly, his pointless afters with the referee after decisions he disagreed with. I expected him to have matured this season.

But it sounds as if his involvement close to the first team - and his possible/probable frustration at a lack of opportunity when we have a problem on the right - has provoked the wrong reaction.

Smith, Gradel, Sheehan, O'Grady sound as if they've all had their difficulties tempermentally. And all of them might be argued to have got frustrated having been on the fringe of the team.

This is bound to happen when, particularly, creative players get overlooked for people who look far less skillful for work solidly and do their appointed task for the team.

If you think the kids at our club are frustrated with not getting in the team, I dread to think what is happening at other clubs. We have more kids getting their chance than ever.... to say they are getting frustrated is just a guess. And one i'd think is pretty wide of the mark.

It is far more likely that they think this is a really good place to get your chance with the likes of O'Grady, Logan, Wesolowski, Porter and sometimes stearman all now starting games!!! It is proven that if you perform you WILL get your chance. You cannot deny that!!

How many teams have 4/5 youth players starting games for them in this division. I would think we are one of only a few.

You said it yourself Gradel had a problem in the past and it has been said often that Sheehan has for a long time. It seems to be more of a problem with the make up of their personality than anything. It can be good to have that fire, like a Roy Keane. But they need to channel it in the right direction.

[Thracian]

If you think the kids at our club are frustrated with not getting in the team, I dread to think what is happening at other clubs. We have more kids getting their chance than ever.... to say they are getting frustrated is just a guess. And one i'd think is pretty wide of the mark.

It is far more likely that they think this is a really good place to get your chance with the likes of O'Grady, Logan, Wesolowski, Porter and sometimes stearman all now starting games!!! It is proven that if you perform you WILL get your chance. You cannot deny that!!

How many teams have 4/5 youth players starting games for them in this division. I would think we are one of only a few.

You said it yourself Gradel had a problem in the past and it has been said often that Sheehan has for a long time. It seems to be more of a problem with the make up of their personality than anything. It can be good to have that fire, like a Roy Keane. But they need to channel it in the right direction.

I agree with most of that but temperaments vary and some youngsters find it harder to deal with knockbacks than others. It doesn't mean they should be sidelined. I doubt my assessment is far wrong of their frustrations but we'll never know. What I do know is that neither seem to be at their best and that concerns me. Why? Because both have important qualities which aren't that easily found and which we have desperate need of.

[Ric Flair]

I was also there on saturday and it's the first time i've seen a youth game this season. They are looking very good and dominant. Considering Villa are the current champions it's obvious that we are currently the better side in the league. We would have won the league last season had we not started off as bad as we did, but since early 2006 we have been incredibly consistent.

Gradel was astonishing in his behaviour. I was speaking to a chap who follows the academy alot and that is the main reason why he left West Ham. Talent wise he's got what it takes to possibly make it but his attitude and temperament are a big problem. It's so frustrating because if he had someone like McKay's or King's work ethic then he'd be in our first team by now.

I thought Odihambo was very good, as was Mattock who always impresses me. Should never have been sent off, I hope he can continue to improve and push for a first team place in a year or so. We need a good attacking left sided defender.

I still don't think any of them are as good as Louis Dodds who isn't getting in the first team, so I can't see how there is a place in the first team just yet for any of the attackers. The only player who might get in the first team soon due to incapabilities of players in his position in the first team is Andy King. But it's hard to tell whether he's ready.

All in all the future is very bright for our youngsters, their next challenge should be to do well in the FA Youth Cup. We have done poor in that in recent seasons.

[Milky]

my bro would have been skipper of this side aswell. Gutted.

it's nice to see them doing well though, let's just hope we can hang on to them.

[lildave3]

...Andy King. But it's hard to tell whether he's ready.

He's not ready..........in 6 weeks he'll be ready.

[Thracian]

I can imagine an incentive problem ahead. Several of them are already too good for Academy football and with no purposeful reserve games, what's to inspire them?

Not the FA Youth Cup. That's just a one-off knock-out and we seem to make a habit of underperforming in in anyway.

The Dodds situation seems scandalous to me. We're talking about bringing in another striker but Dodds has sat there on the sidelines all season doing sod all. He had a cracking 2004/5 and must be gutted.

The Gradel situation bothers me too. He was certainly temperamental at times last season but he also looked a real threat. Why has that suddenly changed if not because the football we're involved in doesn't offer a challenge.

[Ric Flair]

I can imagine an incentive problem ahead. Several of them are already too good for Academy football and with no purposeful reserve games, what's to inspire them?

Not the FA Youth Cup. That's just a one-off knock-out and we seem to make a habit of underperforming in in anyway.

The Dodds situation seems scandalous to me. We're talking about bringing in another striker but Dodds has sat there on the sidelines all season doing sod all. He had a cracking 2004/5 and must be gutted.

The Gradel situation bothers me too. He was certainly temperamental at times last season but he also looked a real threat. Why has that suddenly changed if not because the football we're involved in doesn't offer a challenge.

I know what your saying, but academy teams like Arsenal, Liverpool, Middlesborough, etc walk their academy leagues and they hardly get first team recognition because it's harder for them to break through. We probably have the highest rate of youngsters from our academy in our first team than any other championship club, so from our youngsters point of view we are the best club to be at. Winning games, left, right and centre and getting a chance in the first team. Thrac, you must realise that coaches know when the time is right, Kelly has it almost spot on in regard to our youngsters at present.