Babylon Posted 21 October 2006 Share Posted 21 October 2006 King may still have flaws but looks by far our best attacking midfielder to me. We cannot get out of this League playing two essentially defensive midfielders, neither of whom ever really attacks the box unless we have genuine goalscorers/creators on the flanks. Youth team football is about the same standard as the conference, put hughes in there and he'd shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 21 October 2006 Share Posted 21 October 2006 Youth team football is about the same standard as the conference, put hughes in there and he'd shine. If that doesn't pan out then my son's side could do with someone working the midfield...they meet on 3:30-4:30 on Thursday at Mild Green Primary School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shen Posted 21 October 2006 Share Posted 21 October 2006 It's all about progression. If our results continue and we have a comfortable mid table finish i'll be happy. Get in a few players over the summer and get rid of those who aren't good enough. Then try and improve on that. People seem to expect giant leaps forward, well that's not going to happen. It's going to take time with the resources we have, it could take two or three years. Look around us, Derby, Southampton, Palace, Birmingham, coventry, sunderland... all within touching distance of us, all of whom have spent fortunes on players. We have to look at teams like Preston and Burnley because we don't have the spending power of the other bigger teams in this league. Year after year they had a little progression. They didn't have money to spend except for when they sold players. What they did they was build from the back, get the team solid and expanded from there. The problem as I see it though, is how are we progressing? Fair enough, RK has lynched a few of the underperformers under Levein, but he then brings in players like Low and Johnson in, who let's face it, have hardly been ample replacements for Gillespie or Joey. We've got less money now than under Levein as well, and things don't look like they'll improve in the future in our current state. Quite the contrary! Apart from McAuley, who looks reasonable, RK's signings have been questionable, and I don't see where you get the optimism from that we'll "gradually improve" with time. The only thing that looks promising is our youth setup and the potential further development of our promising players i.e. Fryatt, Hume, Stearman, Logan, Porter and Weso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royston. Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 Do the players or RK really believe they can get promoted this season? I dont and Kelly is just prioritising in keeping the unbeaten run going, doesnt matter if we draw, as long as we dont lose. A draw was a fair result yesterday but we were lucky not to be 2-0 down and out of it at one stage. I'd be more frustrated if we "lost" 2 points while we were pushing for the play-offs or scrapping against relegation but we arent going anywhere at the moment so lets be happy with the unbeaten run and the morale boost that comes with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 Can't be that short. I've not heard that Porter's injured - it seems scandalous that he just seems to have dropped right out of the reckoning with no explanation. And Andy King played and scored from midfield (yet again) for the Academy (who whacked another five goals today, which is about average). Quote from Nils: "I've played behind Levi quite a bit this season and he is a great player to have in front of you. He has so much natural talent." So how come anyone suddenly sees Welsh, Low or Sylla as a better option?. So his opinion is ok for some people but not for others, e.g. rob kelly being oone of the best managers hes worked under... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 22 October 2006 Author Share Posted 22 October 2006 Youth team football is about the same standard as the conference, put hughes in there and he'd shine. At doing what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 22 October 2006 Author Share Posted 22 October 2006 So, let me get this straight: even though you have previously said that Porter is not a natural winger, you would happily enter him on the field of play? Would having him on the wing be your favourite position? No. But he's far better than Sylla, Low and Welsh in that position...for various reasons. Not least because he retains the ball better and makes more precise final passes instead of making so many hopeful crosses into the box which we've got no chance of winning. His best position is attacking midfield but it makes no great difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 and I don't see where you get the optimism from that we'll "gradually improve" with time. Did I say we "would" gradually improve? No I didn't, I said that's what we need to do. But seeing as you asked about optimism.. How about where we are now and where we were when Levein left. How about the fact we are unbeaten in 7 games, on top of the run we had last year. The team has shown they are capable of getting results, with a young squad and a manager who has only been managing for 8/9 months. I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture, our faults are there for us all to see. But we are working at them, think back a year to what we always use to say, always let in goals from set piece, always let in last minute goals, lack of discipline, no commitment ... we aren't saying it anymore, is that not progression? Not forgetting, according to reports we have about the greatest youth team ever known to man kind. We have a manager that has shown, younger players will get blooded and get their chance. I'm sure Thracian will moan about Porter not being in the team and getting dropped for no reason. Well, in Kelly we have one of the most highly regarded youth coaches. His results with Blackburn were excellent. Even this week. we learnt that Martin O'Neil wanted him to run citys youth when he was at Leicester. If that isn't a stamp of approval about the guy I don't know what is!!! When it comes to what's best for the kids, i'd rather put my trust in Kelly than Thracian. There is a heck of a lots of work to be done still, but for me we are going the the right direction at this moment in time. You obviously disagree and that's your right. ps. forgive any spelling mistakes i've only just got up and can't be arsed to read through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reynard Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 It's not a question of wanting Kelly out or poking fun at Thracian it's a question of what is the ambition of the club. To me today the performance was mediocre and when the reckoning comes that is where we will be - in a mediocre mid table position. Kelly is doing wonders with what he has and it's not even that we played badly but we just didn't\play as if we believed or wanted to win. That second half was all about containment, not the remotest risk or push for victory - not good enough. If we have aspirations for the Premiership we need to start believing and planning. Welsh nor Low are good enough and I also cannot understand why Porter has seemingly been discarded - Kelly has done this before with others O'Grady, Maybury. I agree with most of what you say. the original question was what are our aims. obviously we always start each season hoping for promotion but realistically this will not happen this season. so our aims should be for consistent improvement on the field with perhaps a top half finish and for a significant investment off the field. long term planning seems to be through the youngsters yet this is clearly hampered by not having proper reserve team structure. also our best youngsters appear to be at the under 18 level which is 3-4 years away in most cases from being first team regulars. as for kelly he is working hard and the last few matches have seen an improvement though the standard of football is woeful (i include both of yesterday's teams and most other teams i have seen this season in that statement). however, he has failed to sort out our area of greatest weakness central midfield. maybe he is looking but this has been our area of weakness for several seasons and will continue to be so without new blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 22 October 2006 Author Share Posted 22 October 2006 Did I say we "would" gradually improve? No I didn't, I said that's what we need to do. But seeing as you asked about optimism.. How about where we are now and where we were when Levein left. How about the fact we are unbeaten in 7 games, on top of the run we had last year. The team has shown they are capable of getting results, with a young squad and a manager who has only been managing for 8/9 months. I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture, our faults are there for us all to see. But we are working at them, think back a year to what we always use to say, always let in goals from set piece, always let in last minute goals, lack of discipline, no commitment ... we aren't saying it anymore, is that not progression? Not forgetting, according to reports we have about the greatest youth team ever known to man kind. We have a manager that has shown, younger players will get blooded and get their chance. I'm sure Thracian will moan about Porter not being in the team and getting dropped for no reason. Well, in Kelly we have one of the most highly regarded youth coaches. His results with Blackburn were excellent. Even this week. we learnt that Martin O'Neil wanted him to run citys youth when he was at Leicester. If that isn't a stamp of approval about the guy I don't know what is!!! When it comes to what's best for the kids, i'd rather put my trust in Kelly than Thracian. There is a heck of a lots of work to be done still, but for me we are going the the right direction at this moment in time. You obviously disagree and that's your right. ps. forgive any spelling mistakes i've only just got up and can't be arsed to read through it. There is a lot of assumption in your dismissive remark about who you'd trust most with youth player development because you don't know me from Adam. But suffice to say I think my results/achievement record in the coaching of young players - in two sports - would stand against anyone's during the time I was involved, but that has sod-all to do with City and matters nothing in 2006. As for your praise of Kelly I could happily join you in listing a great many plus points concerning the improvements made under Kelly's management compared with Levein's... Discipline both individually and as a team. Hard to beat. Some youth involvement. Rock steady defending thanks to a backline who understand their job and the reinforcements Kelly always provides for them. But there are negatives too and they don't disappear because MON fancied him as coach. I'm not going to list them again. However my belief that we didn't do enough to try and beat Palace stands firm. And if Kelly cannot adapt his tactics his inflexibility will remain one of my criticisms - and one bourne out of faith in the squad not the opposite. Someone's said promotion this season is unrealistic. I would certainly have agreed with him pre-season and he's probably right with the way our stall is being laid out right now. But I don't actually feel like that anymore because I've not been impressed with any team I've seen in the Championship so far, be it Crystal Palace, West Brom when we took the game to them, Southampton or anyone else. We've matched em all and have never even remotely played our best team or to our best ability. I was pleased we beat Leeds but Luton's result didn't surprise me because I believe we all but let a lousy Leeds team off the hook through our lack of finishing and our collective inability to be really rampant going forward. And this is where we part really, in our emphasis. I have respect for teams be they top or bottom but I wouldn't let any side in the Championshhip inhibit my approach to winning. To me every selection should be made towards the simple end of winning and therefore the simple necessity to score two goals or more to have any real chance. Of course we might lose or draw, but it would never enter my head to consider it. And certainly not against teams like Saturday's Palace. It might bother you but I'd take Beaglehole's 5-4 anytime. And I like where it's taken his team...to the top of the table. No sticking willingly to a draw for him. You talk about us being unbeaten in seven and that's nice, of course it is. But we dictated at Sunderland, had more than enough to beat Colchester and should have finished Palace off yesterday. Being realistic the other way, we could have been buried by half-time at Birmingham so overall we could/should be five points better off? And that's how ruthless we've got to be to win things but we won't be that with a side that is only part-committed to attack. PS: Horses for courses. I couldn't give a toss about your spelling. I'm no good at mending cars and have no idea how to programme computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 There is a lot of assumption in your dismissive remark about who you'd trust most with youth player development because you don't know me from Adam. But suffice to say I think my results/achievement record in the coaching of young players - in two sports - would stand against anyone's during the time I was involved, but that has sod-all to do with City and matters nothing in 2006. Have you managed a premier FOOTBALL youth team and done well? If you have then i'll reform my opinions. Maybe you would like to let us know exactly what involvement you have had in football so we can put this to bed once and for all. You may well have coached some kids in squash, and been pretty yourself, but it's not football. But there are negatives too and they don't disappear because MON fancied him as coach. I'm not going to list them again. Yes I think his faults has vanished because Martin O'Neil fancied him. I find it rather insulting you insinuating that I do. I quote from my post "I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture, our faults are there for us all to see. But we are working at them" My post was quite clearly replying to someone who asked "and I don't see where you get the optimism from that we'll gradually improve with time". Which is exactly the reason I posted things that I thought were reasons to be optimistic. You even agreed with some of the things yourself in this post so the point I was making stands... we have improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 22 October 2006 Author Share Posted 22 October 2006 Have you managed a premier FOOTBALL youth team and done well? If you have then i'll reform my opinions. Maybe you would like to let us know exactly what involvement you have had in football so we can put this to bed once and for all. You may well have coached some kids in squash, and been pretty yourself, but it's not football. Yes I think his faults has vanished because Martin O'Neil fancied him. I find it rather insulting you insinuating that I do. I quote from my post "I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture, our faults are there for us all to see. But we are working at them" My post was quite clearly replying to someone who asked "and I don't see where you get the optimism from that we'll gradually improve with time". Which is exactly the reason I posted things that I thought were reasons to be optimistic. You even agreed with some of the things yourself in this post so the point I was making stands... we have improved. a) I had no intention of insulting you or insinuating anything. b) I have no desire to discuss my distant playing/coaching exploits but if it makes you feel justified, the answer to the first sentence in your question is no, I've never managed a Premiership youth side. c) Yes I did agree with some of what you said - it is not unheard of by any means. d) No-one would have described me as "pretty" at any sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 a) I had no intention of insulting you or insinuating anything. b) I have no desire to discuss my distant playing/coaching exploits but if it makes you feel justified, the answer to the first sentence in your question is no, I've never managed a Premier youth side. c) Yes I did agree with some of what you said - it is not unheard of by any means. d) No-one would have described me as "pretty" at any sport. a) No worries b) If you ever do want to mention it I can keep a secret c) Babylon/Thracian in agreement shock. d) No Comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhaticando Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 a) No worries b) If you ever do want to mention it I can keep a secret c) Babylon/Thracian in agreement shock. d) No Comment Anyone need a stiff drink after these revalations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 22 October 2006 Share Posted 22 October 2006 Anyone need a stiff drink after these revalations? I'm drunk now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 22 October 2006 Author Share Posted 22 October 2006 I'm drunk now. That's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.