The Budget

[Daggers]

Soundbites from 5live:

"Budget will bring in 7.2 billion - Budget will cost 8 billion"

"Fuel, exise duty, tax loopholes and property relief will pay for the cuts"

"The lowest end of the income stream will remain the same." Agreed by the Tory in the studio!

"The highest end of the income streams will be worse off." Agreed by the Tory in the studio!

"Investment in education will achieve levels three times that of previous government"

[Head Honcho]

Source?

It doesn't match the sums being made by the commentators I'm listening to at all...

This is in fact true!

By scrapping the 10% lower band he will save himself £7.8 billion this year alone

[Phube]

Sorry Dagenham, it's on theBBC's politcal editors blog. Scrapped 10% lower. Which leaves them a £1bn hole. This is covered by the dropping of the empty property relief!!

[Mort]

"Investment in education will achieve levels three times that of previous government"

Define "Investment"... there's been massive "investment" in the public service over the last decade... thing is none of its done any good, coz it's principally gone into administration, the very reason the public services are in a shambles with a massive budget thats totally fragmented. Worst of all its not sustainable, unless taxes go up even higher.

[Phube]

For Daggers!! <--- Click here

[Daggers]

Isnt a real tax cut though! Its made up by letting tax go up in other areas... doesnt take away from the fact that Brown and Labour are electoral poison (poll rating for Labour are worse when their linked with Brown than Blair!).

Your trust Gordon Brown as an "authority"... coz of course Brown doesnt have any kind of vested interest here

I certainly trust the opinion of people that can spell and understand grammar over those that can't.

I trust identifiable commentary sources over anonymous opinions. How do you form opinions then? If you haven't noticed, this thread is about debating the budget and - unless you are incredibly clever (which you don't appear to be) the only way of discovering the truth of the budget is through efficient and trustworthy analysis.

If you have listened to the budget you will have heard that Gordy DIDN'T voice his opinion on it aside from commending it to the house. So, how exactly have I led you to believe that I trust him as an authority?!

I don't vote Labour although I'm considering voting for our local MP who happens to be Labour due to him being an excellent constituency MP - but I'll bet you that the "electoral poison" you so despise wins the next election.

Currently, I am listening to the 5live commentary on the budget (that has a rep of all three main parties and a stack of statisticians beavering away)...but I will be sure to take on board your worthy contributions too.

[Leicfox]

Soundbites from 5live:

"Budget will bring in 7.2 billion - Budget will cost 8 billion"

"Fuel, exise duty, tax loopholes and property relief will pay for the cuts"

"The lowest end of the income stream will remain the same." Agreed by the Tory in the studio!

"The highest end of the income streams will be worse off." Agreed by the Tory in the studio!

"Investment in education will achieve levels three times that of previous government"

Well the way i see it is that low income single people will pay more tax buy scrapping the 10p threshold yet lower income families will have they're money topped up from Working Tax Credits after getting taxed more.

Christ knows.

[Daggers]

This is in fact true!

By scrapping the 10% lower band he will save himself £7.8 billion this year alone

Nope - the cited figure on the budget is that is will cost 8billion and save 7.2 billion - with the difference being made up from changes in "Fuel, exise duty, tax loopholes and property relief"

Define "Investment"... there's been massive "investment" in the public service over the last decade... thing is none of its done any good, coz it's principally gone into administration, the very reason the public services are in a shambles with a massive budget thats totally fragmented. Worst of all its not sustainable, unless taxes go up even higher.

Opinion. Mine is that this is knee-jerk hysteria. Where's the fact?

[Head Honcho]

Nope - the cited figure on the budget is that is will cost 8billion and save 7.2 billion - with the difference being made up from changes in "Fuel, exise duty, tax loopholes and property relief"

Opinion. Mine is that this is knee-jerk hysteria. Where's the fact?

I'm just listening to it in the background thanks for clearing that up

[Daggers]

My feeling is that it's a mild 'redistribution of wealth' that'll appeal to the Labour voters...and a tax reduction appears to out-Tories the Tories.

I think it is a clever budget as it places Dave in an odd position of either having to agree with it (the tax cut) or object to a tax cut.

As a chess move, it isn't check-mate - or even check...but it is a very strong offencive move.

I am surprised that no one has fed the Lib or Tory in the studio with anything of substance to have a pop at as yet.

[Mort]

I don't vote Labour although I'm considering voting for our local MP who happens to be Labour due to him being an excellent constituency MP - but I'll bet you that the "electoral poison" you so despise wins the next election.

Meow! If your living in Leicester, what other kind of MP do you thinks going to get elected?

Labour won 35% of the vote at the last election, a swing of less than 1% sees a hung-parliament. Current polls have Labour on 28-32% (with that getting worse if Brown is taken as "Labour Leader"), while the Tories are on anything from 38-42%... do you want to bet that Labour win the next election... I mean in the country as a whole (not Leicester!)?

PS: I was a Labour Party organiser in Leicester at the last election(!) though I've since left the party.

[Daggers]

I'm just listening to it in the background thanks for clearing that up

As Phube's link encapsulated, it's a neutral budget - but seems to play on some claimed Tory strengths (Dave's green issues and tax cuts).

With the change in leadership and the up and coming general election I'm interested to see how this one pans out...especially as it doesn't seem to be a budget to "buy" votes.

[Daggers]

Meow! If your living in Leicester, what other kind of MP do you thinks going to get elected?

Labour won 35% of the vote at the last election, a swing of less than 1% sees a hung-parliament. Current polls have Labour on 28-32% (with that getting worse if Brown is taken as "Labour Leader"), while the Tories are on anything from 38-42%... do you want to bet that Labour win the next election... I mean in the country as a whole (not Leicester!)?

PS: I was a Labour Party organiser in Leicester South at the last election(!) though I've since left the party.

I don't live in Leicester...but yea, I'll bet on Brown. I bet Thracian at the beginning of the season that Hume and Fryatt would bag 20 goals between them so I'm in need of recouping that pint

As an ex-organiser then you may well remember the opinion polls throughout the 80's and 90's predicting Labour gains and wins...none of it came through. I feel that opinion polls are totally discredited these days and only point to vague sentiments rather than actual voting decisions.

It comes down to how Gordy performs after he ascends to the highest office, and I reckon the public will go with the Gordon 'Trust' factor and the old adage 'better the devil you know' will come into play. I think that Dave is just too "poor-man's Blair" to gain enough support at the election itself. He's tried to find a unique selling point for the Tories (Green issues & Support of public services ) but Gordy outranks him.

I think it is up to Brown to lose the election rather than Dave to win it.

[Manwell Pablo]

I will vote for whoever gives me the most money.

Fact.

[Mort]

I don't live in Leicester...but yea, I'll bet on Brown. I bet Thracian at the beginning of the season that Hume and Fryatt would bag 20 goals between them so I'm in need of recouping that pint

As an ex-organiser then you may well remember the opinion polls throughout the 80's and 90's predicting Labour gains and wins...none of it came through. I feel that opinion polls are totally discredited these days and only point to vague sentiments rather than actual voting decisions.

It comes down to how Gordy performs after he ascends to the highest office, and I reckon the public will go with the Gordon 'Trust' factor and the old adage 'better the devil you know' will come into play. I think that Dave is just too "poor-man's Blair" to gain enough support at the election itself. He's tried to find a unique selling point for the Tories (Green issues & Support of public services ) but Gordy outranks him.

I think it is up to Brown to lose the election rather than Dave to win it.

I'll take that bet...

Its not that I have a strong preferance for any of the parties... different elements attract me to different parties, though all the evidence suggest a character like Brown simply wont fly in a modern election... polls are "snapp shots", and trends are what need to be looked at and Brown's polling performance has gone from bad to worse since the last election... so we'll see.

PS: I was also the youngest organiser in the country

[hairy]

I think it is up to Brown to lose the election rather than Dave to win it.

Dave likes to joke about Gordon being Stalin. If he is right then there wont be any more elections and Dave is therefore redundant/useless/wasteoftime/f@#ked

[Daggers]

PS: I was also the youngest organiser in the country

Look, at one point or other we've all been sent to tidy our room by our Mum's.

A pint it is then

[Mort]

A pint it is then

First game after the next election... with any luck by then we'll be in the prem, and we'll probably have both forgot there was even an election going on!

[Phube]

Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them! FACT.

[stez]

Bring back Poll Tax... much fairer IMO!

in what way was it fairer?

I will vote for whoever gives me the most money.

Fact.

you need to get yourself out of that job and onto the dole if you want to be given more. it's all take take take if you work.

[Phube]

in what way was it fairer?

What have paying for your local council services got to do with the value of your house 10 years ago?? Surley it should be based on the number of working adults in the house.

I mean how is it fair a couple in their 60's in a large house have to pay more for their sevices than 3 adults sharing a terraced house, when the 3 adults on average will output more waste on average and theoretically use more services??

[lookwhaticando]

Interesting to note that he cut the headline corporation tax by 2p, too.

Shame that will not do much at all to dent the overall tax burden in this country (for business in particular), but it's a start, I suppose. It might help stop businesses from taking flight just yet.

Makes you wonder if he's realized what he's done to the tax burden over the years... he's spent many years giving away all kinds of money, increasing taxes all over the place to pay for it... and now he's starting to cut some of the taxes.

Shame he didn't wield the axe towards some of the tax credit programs he's set up over the years... that'd have been quite something.

[stez]

What have paying for your local council services got to do with the value of your house 10 years ago?? Surley it should be based on the number of working adults in the house.

I mean how is it fair a couple in their 60's in a large house have to pay more for their sevices than 3 adults sharing a terraced house, when the 3 adults on average will output more waste on average and theoretically use more services??

the size/value of your home is a pretty good indicator as to your earnings. i was in just at the end of the poll tax and i can tell you i was far from happy paying the same as some one on 10, 20, 30 + times my wages.

the couple in their 60's could downsize their house invest the monies earned, letting a family that needs 4 bedrooms move in. this could also help solve the housing crisis and reduce the need for more and more houses to be built in the south east.

the couple in their 60's could also sit back happy in the knowledge that they have a state pension worth something whereas mine will be worth zippedee-doo-dar

[Manwell Pablo]

I don't live in Leicester...but yea, I'll bet on Brown. I bet Thracian at the beginning of the season that Hume and Fryatt would bag 20 goals between them so I'm in need of recouping that pint

As an ex-organiser then you may well remember the opinion polls throughout the 80's and 90's predicting Labour gains and wins...none of it came through. I feel that opinion polls are totally discredited these days and only point to vague sentiments rather than actual voting decisions.

It comes down to how Gordy performs after he ascends to the highest office, and I reckon the public will go with the Gordon 'Trust' factor and the old adage 'better the devil you know' will come into play. I think that Dave is just too "poor-man's Blair" to gain enough support at the election itself. He's tried to find a unique selling point for the Tories (Green issues & Support of public services ) but Gordy outranks him.

I think it is up to Brown to lose the election rather than Dave to win it.

Was it league goals Dave? If so only 6 more to go!

[Leicfox]

Shame he didn't wield the axe towards some of the tax credit programs he's set up over the years... that'd have been quite something.

Yeah that would be great.