The Budget

[Mort]

Yeah that would be great.

To be honest it’d be a sensible move… tax credit systems need an entire bureaucracy to support them, and to be fair the existing bureaucracy that’s been set up has got into all kinds of mess… its more effective and cheaper just to write people out of the tax system rather than taxing them and then granting it back… put very simply, its one action, rather than four or five.

[Phube]

the size/value of your home is a pretty good indicator as to your earnings. i was in just at the end of the poll tax and i can tell you i was far from happy paying the same as some one on 10, 20, 30 + times my wages.

the couple in their 60's could downsize their house invest the monies earned, letting a family that needs 4 bedrooms move in. this could also help solve the housing crisis and reduce the need for more and more houses to be built in the south east.

the couple in their 60's could also sit back happy in the knowledge that they have a state pension worth something whereas mine will be worth zippedee-doo-dar

But you all get the same services from the council, and the'rich' folks will be paying more general tax.

So you work all you life put money into a house, pay off the mortgage and try to settle down with a nice low-paying job (handing out baskets at ASDA say). Why should they be punished?? It don't make sense!!

[stez]

But you all get the same services from the council, and the'rich' folks will be paying more general tax.

So you work all you life put money into a house, pay off the mortgage and try to settle down with a nice low-paying job (handing out baskets at ASDA say). Why should they be punished?? It don't make sense!!

so with that logic we should all pay the same income tax too? flat rate of say, 3 grand a year no matter what you earn, because we all get the same services from our tax pound?

i'm also going to (hopefully) work all my life, no doubt well into my 70's or 80's and if i had a house that was costing me more than i could afford, i would sell the thing and (like i said before) invest the monies earned (so it's still working for me) and buy somewhere smaller

[Phube]

so with that logic we should all pay the same income tax too? flat rate of say, 3 grand a year no matter what you earn, because we all get the same services from our tax pound?

i'm also going to (hopefully) work all my life, no doubt well into my 70's or 80's and if i had a house that was costing me more than i could afford, i would sell the thing and (like i said before) invest the monies earned (so it's still working for me) and buy somewhere smaller

No, because income tax is based on income (suprisingly ) your house value (10 years ago) has got nothing to do with your current wealth!! A local income tax wouldn't bother me so much (well maybe a little).

But it's not the house costing the money, they've paid for the house in full. It's the arbitary nature of the council's service tax that's costing them money.

[stez]

No, because income tax is based on income (suprisingly ) your house value (10 years ago) has got nothing to do with your current wealth!! A local income tax wouldn't bother me so much (well maybe a little).

But it's not the house costing the money, they've paid for the house in full. It's the arbitrary nature of the council's service tax that's costing them money.

yes it is, due to the size/value of their house

also i would say the size/value of your house says a lot about your wealth. a boss of mine had a house(still does) worth 3.5 million, whereas my first place cost me 38,500. guess who had/has the most money.

if i have a car which, due to the insurance, fuel costs, tax and repair bills, is costing me more than i can afford, even if i had worked jolly hard previously to buy it but my situation and finances had changed (maybe i had retired for example), i would get rid and downsize my car. what makes a house so different?

[davieG]

yes it is, due to the size/value of their house

also i would say the size/value of your house says a lot about your wealth. a boss of mine had a house(still does) worth 3.5 million, whereas my first place cost me 38,500. guess who had/has the most money.

if i have a car which, due to the insurance, fuel costs, tax and repair bills, is costing me more than i can afford, even if i had worked jolly hard previously to buy it but my situation and finances had changed (maybe i had retired for example), i would get rid and downsize my car. what makes a house so different?

I have a house that puts me in Band D. I've paid for this throughout my working life choosing to spend my money on paying it of rather than expensive holidays and other off life's extravagances. I'm now, due to my age, no other reason unemployed having contributed fully my taxes & NI for 44 years. I've also contributed for 40 years into a pension scheme which now entitles me to a small pension that takes me just over the tax threshold.

This leaves me in a position where I'm not entitled to any benefits, not even unemployment benefit meaning that the Council tax is a big burden on my income. I've done everything I can to downsize my expenditure on my utilities, but the one I cannot affect is the council tax which inexorably rises above inflation yearly

Your answer to this is that I should downsize my house, why should I when there are people earning significant sums who do not in effect pay a penny in council tax yet have use of all the services.

Besides what happens when the money that I release from the downsizing runs out?

It's crappy unfair uncontrolled system.

[stez]

I have a house that puts me in Band D. I've paid for this throughout my working life choosing to spend my money on paying it of rather than expensive holidays and other off life's extravagances. I'm now, due to my age, no other reason unemployed having contributed fully my taxes & NI for 44 years. I've also contributed for 40 years into a pension scheme which now entitles me to a small pension that takes me just over the tax threshold.

This leaves me in a position where I'm not entitled to any benefits, not even unemployment benefit meaning that the Council tax is a big burden on my income. I've done everything I can to downsize my expenditure on my utilities, but the one I cannot affect is the council tax which inexorably rises above inflation yearly

Your answer to this is that I should downsize my house, why should I when there are people earning significant sums who do not in effect pay a penny in council tax yet have use of all the services.

Besides what happens when the money that I release from the downsizing runs out?

It's crappy unfair uncontrolled system.

you're situation is crap, i'm lucky that i'm in one of the few 'jobs for life' which are left in this world but the pay-off is i won't ever own my house, so i look at the property market from a different angle i guess.

anywho i hate the council tax system, but it's here so we have to deal with it i just think it's better (well it was when hesletine devised it) than the poll tax.

as thinks stand i can't afford to pay tax in either system due to the amount of income tax and national insurance (aka income tax number 2) i have to pay, before council tax even comes into it.

[Phube]

My Dad's in a similar situation to DavieG (Well he finally got a job, but it pays a lot less than his old one).

Another hypothetical situation:

A coulple in their 50's both earn £25,000 a year, but have a decent house (as housing was cheaper back then!)

Now 4 adults all earning £20,000 a year share a two bed terrace. They bring in £80,000 a year (£30,000 more than the older couple) but pay less council tax. How can this be fair??

[davieG]

you're situation is crap, i'm lucky that i'm in one of the few 'jobs for life' which are left in this world but the pay-off is i won't ever own my house, so i look at the property market from a different angle i guess.

anywho i hate the council tax system, but it's here so we have to deal with it i just think it's better (well it was when hesletine devised it) than the poll tax.

as thinks stand i can't afford to pay tax in either system due to the amount of income tax and national insurance (aka income tax number 2) i have to pay, before council tax even comes into it.

I'd like someone to convince me that house price inflation, as it is always portrayed in the media is good news.

It seems to me it's only good news for property speculators, the government and the house owners descendants but I'm sure even ones' descendants would prefer to be able to buy their own house rather than sit around waiting for someone to die. It's done nothing for me, it's all one big illusion.

Not that it currently affects the Council Tax, but they're working on it.

[davieG]

My Dad's in a similar situation to DavieG (Well he finally got a job, but it pays a lot less than his old one).

Another hypothetical situation:

A coulple in their 50's both earn £25,000 a year, but have a decent house (as housing was cheaper back then!)

Now 4 adults all earning £20,000 a year share a two bed terrace. They bring in £80,000 a year (£30,000 more than the older couple) but pay less council tax. How can this be fair??

Another way of putting it is the scenario above but both groups live in similar priced house, and it has nothing to do with age per se.

Nothings going to be perfect but the tax burden should be based as per income tax everyone who uses the services pays based on their ability to pay, if it was also collected at the same time think of the costs that could saved.

One of the reasons that the council tax has increased so much is that successive governments have passed on responsibility for various services to local government, under the guise of local input but have not provided the funds to pay for it.

[l444ry]

How ever bad Council Tax might seem, it's not a patch on the disgusting Business Rates. The whole Council Tax thing will become an ever greater problem until someone grasps the nettle and starts to reel in these twopenny halfpenny local politicians who waste other peoples money like water.

[Daggers]

Oppositions don't win elections games, governments City lose them! FACT.

Most accurate contribution to this thread - fact!

[lookwhaticando]

To be honest it’d be a sensible move… tax credit systems need an entire bureaucracy to support them, and to be fair the existing bureaucracy that’s been set up has got into all kinds of mess… its more effective and cheaper just to write people out of the tax system rather than taxing them and then granting it back… put very simply, its one action, rather than four or five.

That was the point I was making.

Gordon's tax credit systems are numerous, complex and inefficient.

There are far better means of redistributing some wealth - better for recipient, better for the treasury, better for the taxpayers.

[Manwell Pablo]

I certainly trust the opinion of people that can spell and understand grammar over those that can't.

I trust identifiable commentary sources over anonymous opinions. How do you form opinions then? If you haven't noticed, this thread is about debating the budget and - unless you are incredibly clever (which you don't appear to be) the only way of discovering the truth of the budget is through efficient and trustworthy analysis.

If you have listened to the budget you will have heard that Gordy DIDN'T voice his opinion on it aside from commending it to the house. So, how exactly have I led you to believe that I trust him as an authority?!

I don't vote Labour although I'm considering voting for our local MP who happens to be Labour due to him being an excellent constituency MP - but I'll bet you that the "electoral poison" you so despise wins the next election.

Currently, I am listening to the 5live commentary on the budget (that has a rep of all three main parties and a stack of statisticians beavering away)...but I will be sure to take on board your worthy contributions too.

Ah Dagenham Dave, master of economics, politics, maths and English, a all round scholer.

But tis a lie, if this was all true I wouldn't have a parcel waiting for me at Coleorton post office which some muppet (Dagenham Dave) didn't pay the full postage on (5p short) I now have to pay £1.05 Dave! £1.05 YOU ****** **** ******* **** **** *. Basic maths Dave, BAISC F* *KING MATHS!!!!

I bet theres a note in there with a spelling mistake in it too! if there is Im scanning it and uploading it on here.

[Daggers]

Ah Dagenham Dave, master of economics, politics, maths and English, a all round scholer.

But tis a lie, if this was all true I wouldn't have a parcel waiting for me at Coleorton post office which some muppet (Dagenham Dave) didn't pay the full postage on (5p short) I now have to pay £1.05 Dave! £1.05 YOU ****** **** ******* **** **** *. Basic maths Dave, BAISC F* *KING MATHS!!!!

I bet theres a note in there with a spelling mistake in it too! if there is Im scanning it and uploading it on here.

That's bullshit - I took the damn DVD to the Post Office, they weighed it and told me how much to pay...tell them to sod off and hand over the envelope.

£1.05 for something that would cost you £12.99 in HMV doesn't seem a bad price to me

[The People's Hero]

That's bullshit - I took the damn DVD to the Post Office, they weighed it and told me how much to pay...tell them to sod off and hand over the envelope.

£1.05 for something that would cost you £12.99 in HMV doesn't seem a bad price to me

Good old Dags!

I love a bit of Dag (from time to time).

[Daggers]

Good old Dags!

I love a bit of Dag (from time to time).

Oh yes - it's Disco Bob's Dagenham Dave's illegal wares emporium, open for service

Why pay when you can rip and burn it for free!

[Manwell Pablo]

That's bullshit - I took the damn DVD to the Post Office, they weighed it and told me how much to pay...tell them to sod off and hand over the envelope.

£1.05 for something that would cost you £12.99 in HMV doesn't seem a bad price to me

Yes but you did that in a post office in Brum, not the brightest are they.

[Daggers]

Yes but you did that in a post office in Brum, not the brightest are they.

You should see them...

I mean, who uses a damn Post Office anymore anyways? The unemployable and the challenged. You'd never catch me in a...oh nuts

[Manwell Pablo]

You should see them...

I mean, who uses a damn Post Office anymore anyways? The unemployable and the challenged. You'd never catch me in a...oh nuts

Quite, and now I have to go into one as well <_<

[Master Fox]

You should see them...

I mean, who uses a damn Post Office anymore anyways ? The unemployable and the challenged. You'd never catch me in a...oh nuts

Great places for picking a giro cheque and food stamps.

I found that a lot of post offices lost their character when they ceased to incorporate a happy shopper mini store.

[Daggers]

Great places for picking a giro cheque and food stamps.

...and old ladies that smell of wee. Love them old ladies

[Manwell Pablo]

...and old ladies that smell of wee. Love them old ladies

Oh god, the queen of wee stinking old ladys lives round here, when she walks out her front door the whole village stinks of piss about 5 seconds laters.

(Disclaimer: Manwell Pablo does not wish to cause anyone related to piss stinker any offense, I relise it is a medical condition and cannot be helped)

[The People's Hero]

Just briefly getting back to the Budget.

I've just had a chat with my accountant here at work and I really am worse off this year.

Nothing about the budget is good for me.

[Master Fox]

Just briefly getting back to the Budget.

I've just had a chat with my accountant here at work and I really am worse off this year.

Nothing about the budget is good for me.

Well things could be worse, at least your not the woman who walks out of her front door and makes Manwell’s village stink of piss