Madeleine McCann

[Babylon]

Could you of put to better use, the amount of time you have spent writing these essays? I admire the fact you have, but it just seems a bit odd... it is a football site after all.

[Chandler]

Could you of put to better use, the amount of time you have spent writing these essays? I admire the fact you have, but it just seems a bit odd... it is a football site after all.

Touche, monsieur, touche (sorry about the missing accent grave). I explained earlier on this thread why I decided to post my findings here as oppsed to the usual conspircay threads. I'll remind you of my reasons:

1) I want to bounce my ideas off normal people and the (male) demographics of sites like this are good as anywhere;

2) Most conspiracy sites are riddled with disinformation and virtually all conspiracists don't get the big picture.

Yes, I am as odd as two left shoes with an ego to match...

[Babylon]

Yes, I am as odd as two left shoes with an ego to match...

You have an ego like two left shoes, sounds like an Eric Cantona saying.

[Master Fox]

Seems like you read ALL of my post Mr Zingari: you're a man after my own heart a true 'truther.'

Don't worry for now about the precise meaning of obscure terms - it will ruin it for later. All will be revealed I promise you.

I want to be 'truther'

Make me one, I BELIEVE!!

Show me a way to your heart!

[Chandler]

I want to be 'truther'

Make me one, I BELIEVE!!

Show me a way to your heart!

A good example of the downside when dealing with 'normal' people...

[Babylon]

A good example of the downside when dealing with 'normal' people...

[The People's Hero]

I want da troof n'all.

[Webbo]

Very interesting post Chandler however I fear your theory is no more likely than L444y's. Ken's theory is the most likely one I've read on here.

[l444ry]

Very interesting post Chandler however I fear your theory is no more likely than L444y's. Ken's theory is the most likely one I've read on here.

I haven't professed any theory, futter. Strange as it may seem I have never accused the McCann's of murdering their daughter either, despite Chandler's many assertions that I do think this . What I do assert however, is that in all probability given the publicised "facts", abduction is just not a viable option. Chandler's very well constructed and interesting post does not address that fact despite the illusion that it does. It is nothing more than a selective re-hash of the pro-McCann publicity machine version of events.

Given the absence of any facts supporting abduction, and the Tapas 9 statements that are not consistent, it is a perfectly reasonable position to hold that the parents should seek to clear themselves by answering the 40 odd questions the PJ want answered regarding the hire car and mobile phone calls. They have done the opposite.

[Hullfox]

I think I'm going to be able to vote for this as thread of the year next year too.

[Trumpet]

Does Chandler actually support Leicester?

[Master Fox]

A good example of the downside when dealing with 'normal' people...

Eh?

Any-how...

I'm off to play with the leprecons and fairies now. I’ll probably then decide to cover my body with my own excrement.

Tatty ho ..!!!

[Trumpet]

Eh?

Any-how...

I'm off to play with the leprecons and fairies now. I’ll probably then decide to cover my body with my own excrement.

Tatty ho ..!!!

Let us know if you see Maddie..

[Chandler]

Very interesting post Chandler however I fear your theory is no more likely than L444y's. Ken's theory is the most likely one I've read on here.

Are you psychic Futter? I don't recall having mentioned it here. In fact, I've only ever discussed the outline of it with one other person (via email around August when I didn't have the evidence that I do now) and I have sworn him to secrecy.

I'd be obliged if you could unearth 'Ken's theory' for me (provided that it is not a spoof).

[Webbo]

Ken's theory.

My therory's too simple to hold any credence by the conspiracy theory lobby. I just think that the McCanns were unlucky that some bastard saw an oppotunity to snatch little girl manage to get her out of the see pr resort under the cover of darkness. I do not have any evidence to prove my theory but there has been little evidence anyway for any theory.

We just have to accept that there are people out there that are like that. Just be glad they are in the minority.

Are you psychic Futter? I don't recall having mentioned it here. In fact, I've only ever discussed the outline of it with one other person (via email around August when I didn't have the evidence that I do now) and I have sworn him to secrecy.

I'd be obliged if you could unearth 'Ken's theory' for me (provided that it is not a spoof).

We all know your theory, somebody, probably Robert Murat acquired Maddy for paedophile ring consisting of high ranking Portuguese officials and the Portuguese police are actively trying to smear the McCanns to cover it up.

[Chandler]

Ken's theory.

We all know your theory, somebody, probably Robert Murat acquired Maddy for paedophile ring consisting of high ranking Portuguese officials and the Portuguese police are actively trying to smear the McCanns to cover it up.

Nice try Futter - but my theory goes much, much deeper than this. So much deeper in fact that it almost comes out on 1444ry's side.

So stick around if you want your faith in liberal democracy smashed.

PS Is the Nightguard 'reply' on your previous post 'Ken's theory?'

Edited 20 December 2007 by Chandler

[Simi]

Does Chandler actually support Leicester?

I've read many threads from the Levien era involving Chandler. Very interesting time on FT that.

Worth searching.

[Webbo]

PS Is the Nightguard 'reply' on your previous post 'Ken's theory?'

That's why I put 'Ken's theory' just above it.

[Chandler]

That's why I put 'Ken's theory' just above it.

Thanks for that.

Nightguard is wrong - Madeleine's abduction was not an opportunistic crime. It was an operation that might have taken up to two years to plan and probably 'rehearsed' for over a year.

[Rincewind]

Then the abducters knew in advance that the McCanns would be in Portugal, in that area, in that complex at the time that they were? Did they have a time machine?

[Chandler]

Then the abducters knew in advance that the McCanns would be in Portugal, in that area, in that complex at the time that they were? Did they have a time machine?

It was 'Apartment 5a' rather than the McCanns that was targeted. Madeleine's profile and her parents predicatable movements made her a victim.

[Chandler]

OK folks I want to put the final nail in the coffin of the 'McCanns killed Maddie' theory before moving on to explore the sad truth behind this tragic affair.

It's worth noting that the PJ have circulated (illegally) through the local media a number of competing 'theories' about Maddie's disappearance:

(1) she wandered out of the apartment by herself;

(2) she was over-sedated by Kate McCann and died as a result;

(3) she died as a result of crushing the back of her head on a ceramic flagstone after falling down the steps that led to the apartment (Daily Telegraph 2.10.07).

With each of these 'theories' comes a number of competing disposal scenarios:

following (1) the PJ say Madeleine was either abducted by an opportunist paedophile or fell into earthworks/roadworks or the sea and died;

following (2) the PJ opine that either Gerry (a) buried Madeleine near the local church, then roped in members of the 'Tapas 7' into driving her remains to the Lagos marina, before putting them in a boat and dumping them at sea or that he (b) buried her in the churchyard, but exhumed her three months later and then transported her in the Renault Scenic to be re interred either en route or on return from Huelva or that he © refrigerated her remains before transportation to the marina/Huelva.

THE place in Praia da Luz to inter/exhume your dead kids - Mon-Sat only (free shovel after midnight).

following (3) the McCanns panicked, hid the body in an undisclosed location and disposed of it in an unspecified way with the help of friends (Daily Telegraph 2.10.07).

Now, where is the evidence to corroborate any of this speculation?

To the best of my knowledge, there are no confirmed eye witnesses to any of these events. There are no reports of any forensic tests having been carried out at 'Nossa Senhora da Luz' churchyard. No refrigeration unit has ever been traced or tested. The unspecified vehicle allegedly used to transport Madeleine’s remains to the marina and the boat purportedly requisitioned to dump the cadaver at sea have never been identified. And it goes without saying that the window of opportunity that would allow the McCanns to carry out such acts away from the glare of the world's media was tiny.

Lagos Marina - fourth dock down and eighth mooring across is where the 'Tapas 7' went swinging after disposal.

Which leaves us with the DNA 'recovered' from Apartment 5a and the Renault Scenic. '24 Horas' of the 1.6.07 reported that the DNA taken from the apartment that was sent to the Instituto Nacional de Medicina Legal (INML) came from someone other than Robert Murat and McCann family members. A big admission for this McCannophobic rag to make. But the situation was slightly more fluid then than it is now and there were certain uncomfortable aspects to the case that the PJ needed to draw a veil over.

There has been no further news on this mysterious sample...

Then there are the hair and blood traces reportedly recovered from the Renault Scenic generally accepted as having being sent to Forensic Science Services (FSS) in Birmingham for analysis. On the balance of probabilities though it is unlikely that the results of this work will ever be publicly disclosed. Professor David Barclay (a forensic scientist who worked at FSS for several years - central image below) stated on the 'Dispatches' documentary 'Searching for Madeleine' (aired on C4 18.10.07) that he had never heard of any employee publicly disclosing or leaking test results during an investigation. And, as any trial of suspects linked to Madeleine's disappearance in which any of the FSS findings could be disclosed is, at best, a remote possibility, it’s hard to conceive of any circumstances where disclosure might be possible.

Dispatches plods prefer to trouser fat TV fees for rubbishing other cops' cases than just getting by solving their own.

In any event, just as it is possible that no Apartment 5a DNA was ever sent to the INML it is also possible that no Renault DNA was ever sent to the FSS. In the Sunday Times of the 16.12.07 there was a remarkable revelation. The FSS, it seems, were not actually acting for the PJ - their client was Leicestershire Constabulary it was the latter force APPARENTLY that had recovered and supplied the DNA. This strange admission combined with last month’s curiously under reported hush hush visit of the PJ to Enderby and the unexpected appearance of one or two highly unusual delegates at the Porto-pig-plods’ briefing just adds fuel to my suspicion that the whole DNA analysis narrative is just a smokescreen.

Funny goings on in Enderby - first ever visit by TV crew.

Edited 21 December 2007 by Chandler

[Zingari]

excellent post again Chandler ; plenty to think about , re the marina etc

(please excuse my scant in-depth knowledge again, but these are just a couple my thoughts from the tabloids, sorry if its already been dealt with)

Chandler ( or l444ry, futter, yaxx etc), What are your thoughts/ speculations on Gerry McCann's "supposed " missing blue tennis bag ?

He denies having had a bag of this description but ( according to the tabloids) witnesses say that he did , and there is speculation that it could have been the sort of bag that could be used to carry a child , surely if such a bag has indeed dissappeared , then why would the abductor not have come equipped with something to carry a child , and not relied on one just fortunately being around .

Surely witnesses describing it something like "a large holdall " would have sufficed , but a "blue tennis bag" is quite a precise description

Is this another smokescreen to implicate the mccanns ? if so why such a precise description of the bag ? ( hope you see what i'm getting at)

My other thought, is that anyone looking at Kate Mccann these days will be sure that "if" she had any involvement then she is paying a very heavy price for it and "sources close to her" ( yes that dreaded term) say that her face has distorted into a permant expression of a scream

All the best

Edited 24 December 2007 by I Zingari

[l444ry]

excellent post again Chandler ; plenty to think about , re the marina etc

(please excuse my scant in-depth knowledge again, but these are just a couple my thoughts from the tabloids, sorry if its already been dealt with)

Chandler ( or l444ry, futter, yaxx etc), What are your thoughts/ speculations on Gerry McCann's "supposed " missing blue tennis bag ?

He denies having had a bag of this description but ( according to the tabloids) witnesses say that he did , and there is speculation that it could have been the sort of bag that could be used to carry a child , surely if such a bag has indeed dissappeared , then why would the abductor not have come equipped with something to carry a child , and not relied on one just fortunately being around .

Surely witnesses describing it something like "a large holdall " would have sufficed , but a "blue tennis bag" is quite a precise description

Is this another smokescreen to implicate the mccanns ? if so why such a precise description of the bag ? ( hope you see what i'm getting at)

My other thought, is that anyone looking at Kate Mccann these days will be sure that "if" she had any involvement then she is paying a very heavy price for it and "sources close to her" ( yes that dreaded term) say that her face has distorted into a permant expression of a scream

All the best

Greetings to you Mr. Zingari!

The Portuguese press are reporting that the Portuguese Police have been searching for the missing "blue bag" for months, ever since Gerry McCann reported it as stolen. Now Clarence Mitchell and Gerry McCann claim there was no such bag.

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/12/24/sociedade/sac...ie_e_pista.html

One more inconsistency in the McCann defence, it seems.

[cisono]

My other thought, is that anyone looking at Kate Mccann these days will be sure that "if" she had any involvement then she is paying a very heavy price for it and "sources close to her" ( yes that dreaded term) say that her face has distorted into a permant expression of a scream

Permanent expression of a scream?

Does that have some symbolic meaning then?