Andy King/Carl Pentney

[filbertway]

If people are saying that conference is too low a level, just send the fookers to 'boot camp' instead, that will toughen em up!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I wouldn't put it past Allen

[Wils]

Im mates with Pentney!

Best thing for him really, with the amount of keepers weve got at the minute i think it will be a good move for him.

[The People's Hero]

Im mates with Pentney!

Thracian doesn't rave about him morning, noon and night so he must be absolute gash.

Any thoughts Wils?

Or Carl - if you're reading?

[Wils]

Thracian doesn't rave about him morning, noon and night so he must be absolute gash.

Any thoughts Wils?

Or Carl - if you're reading?

I saw him play in a youth match once last season and he done alrite. Didnt have alot to do but dealt with what he did well,obviously Thrac will have seen him play more than me. Anyway im biased

[The People's Hero]

I saw him play in a youth match once last season and he done alrite. Didnt have alot to do but dealt with what he did well,obviously Thrac will have seen him play more than me. Anyway im biased

Maybe space on the pedestal ran out.

Carl will have to wait until a few more have fallen off.

It didn't help that Sheehan seems to have hauled himself out of the pit of Thrac-condemnation and back on to the pedestal of Thrac-'candonowrong'.

[Thracian]

If I listed every player who *someone* has got overly excited about and hasn't made the grade, I'd be here all day.

The point is that there is a big gulf between youth football and Championship football.

How many of those are playing competitive Championship football now?

The irritating thing of course is that by the law of averages, eventually, when one does make it, all we'll get is 'I told you so' etc etc etc etc. It's a case of say every one of them is amazing in order that certain posters can take the plaudits if and when one of them DOES make it.

Every time you mention anyone from the youth set up you betray your complete ignorance both on the ability of players you've mostly never seen and their likely path of progress.

Andy King was given a two year professional contract at the end of last season, suggesting he is highly regarded.

He might have warranted a place with the first team last season.

But both King and MA realise the situation has changed.

Consequently, if MA wants King to make the fastest progress possible he might well go out on loan and get League or Conference football instead of playing reserves football at a standard everyone is already convinced he can play well at anyway.

You only have to see the nine current/recent Academy players in the team which beat Cheltenham to know that the more that can get League or competitive Conference football the better.

And how much more preferable than to have them sitting around doing nothing as happened Sheehan, Dodds and O'Grady for so much of the time under Kelly.

Gradel, McKay, Odhaimbo and one or two others might win similar opportunities.

You might sneer but I can assure you Martin Allen rates our youngsters very highly. Not all will necessarily force their way through but many will get the chance to try and this sort of move is typical of people like Ferguson and Wenger as they wait for youngsters to mature into fully-fledged League players a little further down the line than would have been the case at Leicester a year and more ago.

[Thracian]

Thracian doesn't rave about him morning, noon and night so he must be absolute gash.

Any thoughts Wils?

Or Carl - if you're reading?

Sheehan's got the sniff of a chance and needs to be cool enough to take it. He should play to his strengths and keep showing willing to work hard on his weakesses.

I have always had faith in him but he needs to keep helping himself.

[Ric Flair]

Every time you mention anyone from the youth set up you betray your complete ignorance both on the ability of players you've mostly never seen and their likely path of progress.

Andy King was given a two year professional contract at the end of last season, suggesting he is highly regarded.

He might have warranted a place with the first team last season.

But both King and MA realise the situation has changed.

Consequently, if MA wants King to make the fastest progress possible he might well go out on loan and get League or Conference football instead of playing reserves football at a standard everyone is already convinced he can play well at anyway.

You only have to see the nine current/recent Academy players in the team which beat Cheltenham to know that the more that can get League or competitive Conference football the better.

And how much more preferable than to have them sitting around doing nothing as happened Sheehan, Dodds and O'Grady for so much of the time under Kelly.

Gradel, McKay, Odhaimbo and one or two others might win similar opportunities.

You might sneer but I can assure you Martin Allen rates our youngsters very highly. Not all will necessarily force their way through but many will get the chance to try and this sort of move is typical of people like Ferguson and Wenger as they wait for youngsters to mature into fully-fledged League players a little further down the line than would have been the case at Leicester a year and more ago.

Haven't you ever thought that the reason the likes of TPH react the way they do, is because of your incessant praise and hype you give them? Luckily I get to watch the youngsters regularly or did do up until last season. and therefore I can make my own judgement up. But for some, they can't get to youth or reserve matches and your descriptions of the players are unreal at times and I can understand the ridicule that then provails because of your prattle.

However, I do agree with some of the praise you heap on their young shoulders. Our academy team is very talented.

[The People's Hero]

Every time you mention anyone from the youth set up you betray your complete ignorance both on the ability of players you've mostly never seen and their likely path of progress.

Andy King was given a two year professional contract at the end of last season, suggesting he is highly regarded.

He might have warranted a place with the first team last season.

But both King and MA realise the situation has changed.

Consequently, if MA wants King to make the fastest progress possible he might well go out on loan and get League or Conference football instead of playing reserves football at a standard everyone is already convinced he can play well at anyway.

You only have to see the nine current/recent Academy players in the team which beat Cheltenham to know that the more that can get League or competitive Conference football the better.

And how much more preferable than to have them sitting around doing nothing as happened Sheehan, Dodds and O'Grady for so much of the time under Kelly.

Gradel, McKay, Odhaimbo and one or two others might win similar opportunities.

You might sneer but I can assure you Martin Allen rates our youngsters very highly. Not all will necessarily force their way through but many will get the chance to try and this sort of move is typical of people like Ferguson and Wenger as they wait for youngsters to mature into fully-fledged League players a little further down the line than would have been the case at Leicester a year and more ago.

None of that addresses anything which was raised in my post.

It's as if you have one 'stock' post and it's a case of 'one size fits all'.

[Daz.I]

pentneys a top lad and would be good for them to go on loan

[renards]

He is!

Just like Stuart Campbell, Stuart Wilson, Jonathon Stevenson, Jon Ashton, Stephen Dawson, Tommy Wright, Tomi Petrescu, Alan Sheehan and Louis Dodds were. Or are.

Or something.

Do you see?

bit unfair and cheap to knock.

obviously the players you have mentioned have not made it big time and we are due a quality player coming through.

the sucess of the youth team and king getting a contract should suggest that we have a fairly decent bunch?

decent players have come through the set up albeit every decade.

should shilton, lineker, heskey etc be around at youth level at this time would they get the same treatment?

[The People's Hero]

bit unfair and cheap to knock.

obviously the players you have mentioned have not made it big time and we are due a quality player coming through.

the sucess of the youth team and king getting a contract should suggest that we have a fairly decent bunch?

decent players have come through the set up albeit every decade.

should shilton, lineker, heskey etc be around at youth level at this time would they get the same treatment?

Don't see the point you are making?

Those players were quality. Don't see how over-hyping players helps them.

The point I'm making is that many don't make it and that over-hyping youth teamers often works against them as expectation is raised and they can't live up to it.

Unless you believe that over-hyping players helps them, I don't think we have a disagreement, you've simply been a bit too 'simple' to understand my argument.

[Lichfieldfox.]

Don't see the point you are making?

Those players were quality. Don't see how over-hyping players helps them.

The point I'm making is that many don't make it and that over-hyping youth teamers often works against them as expectation is raised and they can't live up to it.

Unless you believe that over-hyping players helps them, I don't think we have a disagreement, you've simply been a bit too 'simple' to understand my argument.

Interesting post. I suspect people watching the academy players rate them in relation to the other players on the pitch. It seems we have a great set of academy players who are winners in a winning team hence will look good. If players play well and a team wins then there talents are often magnified and their errors minimised. This breeds confidence if handled well or puts them on an impossibly high pedastal from which there is only one place to go. Hence I'm confused by a post that states the players are quality (is this objectivity or hype) and then remarks that over-hyping doesn't help. Its a tricky bridge to cross and as many have observed only a few make it. I suppose thats a bit like a sperm trying to fertilise an egg,only the best/fastest in the pond succeed.

Anyway I think a loan spell will do these lads more good than harm as long as the club backs them with the emotional,motivational and educational support required for such young men. Good luck to King and Pentney - carpe diem

[The People's Hero]

Lineker, Heskey etc had a lot of quality and it spoke for itself.

If people have to go out of their way to over-hype a player, in my opinion, that speaks for itself.

[Geo V]

Players like Defoe and Beckham have had successful loan spells early in their careers as they arent the only ones. Loads of quality players have needed first team football in front of barracking real life fans to see if they sink or swim. Now before I get attacked, I am not suggesting that this pair are the next big thing (that`ll be difficult considering Ive never seen them play ) but lets see how they get on away from the club and who knows, we one o fthese youngsters could actually end up being good enough to become first team players next season, or even towards the latter stages of this one.

[filbertway]

The bets approach to promote a decent youngster is the Ric Flair approach, I think it was you/him who started getting exctied by weso?

Didn't go over the top with him but said enough to get people to pay attention and look out for him

[Ric Flair]

The bets approach to promote a decent youngster is the Ric Flair approach, I think it was you/him who started getting exctied by weso?

Didn't go over the top with him but said enough to get people to pay attention and look out for him

Cheers.

To be fair, i've gone over the top about youngsters in the past. But i'll not bang on about it, post after post like Thracian does.

[The People's Hero]

Cheers.

To be fair, i've gone over the top about youngsters in the past. But i'll not bang on about it, post after post like Thracian does.

Flairman - looking forwards to meeting you at Palace. We can talk of Weso, of beer and of the dreams we had which have now been dashed by the harsh realities of life which we must face day after day after turgid fu cking day.

Oh and Mablo - it's your round mate.

[Ric Flair]

Flairman - looking forwards to meeting you at Palace. We can talk of Weso, of beer and of the dreams we had which have now been dashed by the harsh realities of life which we must face day after day after turgid fu cking day.

Oh and Mablo - it's your round mate.

I'm currently drafting up a compendium of topics to discuss with you. I will leave no stone un-turned in my pursuit for vulgar chat.

[Fez of Mahrez]

This one's for all the bouncers!

Big, big monkey man!

[Thracian]

Haven't you ever thought that the reason the likes of TPH react the way they do, is because of your incessant praise and hype you give them? Luckily I get to watch the youngsters regularly or did do up until last season. and therefore I can make my own judgement up. But for some, they can't get to youth or reserve matches and your descriptions of the players are unreal at times and I can understand the ridicule that then provails because of your prattle.

However, I do agree with some of the praise you heap on their young shoulders. Our academy team is very talented.

As you well know I respect the view of anyone who takes the trouble to watch these people including yourself.

As for my own views I call it as I see it. I try to praise people who do well and at times when I've seen the dross being served up by our first team I've campaiged for some of our categorically better youngsters to get their chance.

This has been in relation to poor performance by regular first teamers and even worse performance by loanees whose presence positively insulted the youngsters.

People like Dodds and King never got the smell of a chance because of inconsequencials like Horsfield, Jarrett and Yeates so my conscience is clear.

When I came on this forum Wesolowski and Stearman were the only youth players in the picture and it soon became clear that there was a whole group of fans who didn't favour including youth players at all and who sneered about them at every opportunity.

Now, two years on, we've had Logan, Stearman, Sheehan, Mattock, Wesolowski, Porter, Odhiambo and Chambers involved in first team matches and McKay, Gradel, Beswick appearing on the fringes. If all my praise has done them harm I haven't noticed but I am proud of their emergence, proud of their all round success and even more proud that far more people on this forum talk about them with high regard and optimism than was ever the case before.

To me they the Academy graduates represent new hope for our club - a return to proper football if you like. And the sort of experience we're getting in around them nowadays - people like N'Gotts, Kishishev and Clemence - can only help their development.

[The People's Hero]

You've completely missed the point that Ric made and just got back with your 'stock' post.

[Geo V]

As you well know I respect the view of anyone who takes the trouble to watch these people including yourself.

As for my own views I call it as I see it. I try to praise people who do well and at times when I've seen the dross being served up by our first team I've campaiged for some of our categorically better youngsters to get their chance.

This has been in relation to poor performance by regular first teamers and even worse performance by loanees whose presence positively insulted the youngsters.

People like Dodds and King never got the smell of a chance because of inconsequencials like Horsfield, Jarrett and Yeates so my conscience is clear.

When I came on this forum Wesolowski and Stearman were the only youth players in the picture and it soon became clear that there was a whole group of fans who didn't favour including youth players at all.

Now, two years on, we've had Logan, Stearman, Sheehan, Mattock, Wesolowski, Porter, Odhiambo and Chambers involved in first team matches and McKay, Gradel, Beswick appearing on the fringes. If all my praise as done them harm I haven't noticed but I am proud of their emergence, proud of their all round success and even more proud that far more people on this forum talk about them with high regard and optimism than was ever the case before.

To me they help represent new hope for our club - a return to proper football if you like. And the sort of experience we're getting in around them nowadays - people like N'Gotts, Kishishev and Clemence - can only help their development.

With all due respect to some of the kids who have come through, they have only played games because we have had our hands tied in the transfer market and didnt have many options. Just because you play a load of younger players it doesnt mean they will all improve and thats why I was very surprised with your far out cry towards the end of last season that you almost hoped we got relegated and started again with all the youngsters. Unfortunately it doesnt work like that and only a few manage to break through. From the lst of youngsters who have played for us along with the likes of the Cogster, arguably, NONE of them will be starting the season now our manager has had the opportunity to bring players in.

Weso is one who could make it and Stearman could possibly develop into a very good player but the likes of the rest on the list have a hell of work to do to actually make it as regulars at this level, never mind a level above.

[Manwell Pablo]

O goody, this again.

[The People's Hero]

O goody, this again.

Jade Goody.

Now you've reminded me of her - you fiend.