Fez of Mahrez Posted 15 August 2007 Author Share Posted 15 August 2007 Against Blackpool our strikers spent so much time dropping deep that there was never anyone on the shoulder of the last defender to worry the centre-backs. The answer to that is pace and a direct running threat from midfield, something we've lacked for a while now. Fryatt and Hume were so much more effective on the shoulder of the last man when Gudjonsson was playing them through 18 months ago. Wesolowski could fill that role if he is allowed to. Either that or we need better wingers. We are not going to finish in the top half with no attacking midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGibbo Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 we need better wingers. We are not going to finish in the top half with no attacking midfielders. yes definately thats what we desperately need newton hayes & porter although not bad players aren't going to provide enough threat down the flanks for a top six championship side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Against Blackpool our strikers spent so much time dropping deep that there was never anyone on the shoulder of the last defender to worry the centre-backs. The answer to that is pace and a direct running threat from midfield, something we've lacked for a while now. Fryatt and Hume were so much more effective on the shoulder of the last man when Gudjonsson was playing them through 18 months ago. Wesolowski could fill that role if he is allowed to. Either that or we need better wingers. We are not going to finish in the top half with no attacking midfielders. A rare diamond of footballing knowledge amongst the cyber slurry of opinion on here of late. That is why Campbell will be prefered to Hume alongside de Vries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevez Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Hendo J.Chambers (if fit) Kenton N Gotty Kissa Sheehan Kaebi /Newton Wesolowski Clemence Porter De Vries DJ Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommeh Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Must admit after seeing our strikers in the last few games, If Cort was fit he'd be the 1st person I'd stick up front as all of them have one major fault or havn't quite looked comfrtable as yet. De Vries - Surely the idea of playing a big man up there is that he can win it in the air? He has impressed me the most out of the strikers so far, but its probably because he has had the lowest expectation. Hume - He seems to be the one who if needs be can cover on the wings or drop off, but in reality I think he'll always play up top (watch me be proved wrong on sat) And I'm still not 100%convinced he'll score enough goals for a main front man of a play-off chasing team. Fryatt - I actually though he did ok last night, but there was no doubt he was out of position and I'd be very surprised if MA played him there for palace, his pace is his main problem but he is good at running at players and he remains the striker who if I could give one chance to it would be him. Campbell - Looked threatening last night without ever achieving anything. I'd play him personally but so far he has looked a little naive in front of goal. I think he needs a good run in the team (something he hasn't been used to in the last coulple of seasons) and the goals will come. Only problem is will MA, MM and the ever moaning fans give him this time? I have been impressed with his link up play however. Cort - To me he would give us that height up front and unlike De Vries actually win a few hopefully. He'd also be one who could stay up front with others i.e. Hume and Campbell running off him and looking for knock downs. With the others: I can't see sappleton playing much this year especially with Odhiambo making the bench at accrington ahead of him. Odhiambo himself looked lively last night and may be used if we're going for it late in a game. The other being Hammond who hasn't made a squad yet and I don't think will feature. Personally I would like to see as an attacking line up: --------Hume---------Campbell ----------------Cort------------- with the 3 cm's (weso, clemence, kish) behind and forward thinking full backs in Mattock and Kaebi. Untill some players i.e. Kaebi, Cort, Chambers even Hayes regain full fitness I think we will have to make the best out of what we have, and most importantly play players in their right positions! ------------------------Henderson------------------ --Stearman----McAuley----N'Gotty-----Sheehan-- --Newton----Clemence-----Wesolowski---Porter--- -----------------Hume------Campbell---------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 15 August 2007 Author Share Posted 15 August 2007 Must admit after seeing our strikers in the last few games, If Cort was fit he'd be the 1st person I'd stick up front as all of them have one major fault or havn't quite looked comfrtable as yet.De Vries - Surely the idea of playing a big man up there is that he can win it in the air? He has impressed me the most out of the strikers so far, but its probably because he has had the lowest expectation. Hume - He seems to be the one who if needs be can cover on the wings or drop off, but in reality I think he'll always play up top (watch me be proved wrong on sat) And I'm still not 100%convinced he'll score enough goals for a main front man of a play-off chasing team. Fryatt - I actually though he did ok last night, but there was no doubt he was out of position and I'd be very surprised if MA played him there for palace, his pace is his main problem but he is good at running at players and he remains the striker who if I could give one chance to it would be him. Campbell - Looked threatening last night without ever achieving anything. I'd play him personally but so far he has looked a little naive in front of goal. I think he needs a good run in the team (something he hasn't been used to in the last coulple of seasons) and the goals will come. Only problem is will MA, MM and the ever moaning fans give him this time? I have been impressed with his link up play however. Cort - To me he would give us that height up front and unlike De Vries actually win a few hopefully. He'd also be one who could stay up front with others i.e. Hume and Campbell running off him and looking for knock downs. With the others: I can't see sappleton playing much this year especially with Odhiambo making the bench at accrington ahead of him. Odhiambo himself looked lively last night and may be used if we're going for it late in a game. The other being Hammond who hasn't made a squad yet and I don't think will feature. Personally I would like to see as an attacking line up: --------Hume---------Campbell ----------------Cort------------- with the 3 cm's (weso, clemence, kish) behind and forward thinking full backs in Mattock and Kaebi. Untill some players i.e. Kaebi, Cort, Chambers even Hayes regain full fitness I think we will have to make the best out of what we have, and most importantly play players in their right positions! ------------------------Henderson------------------ --Stearman----McAuley----N'Gotty-----Sheehan-- --Newton----Clemence-----Wesolowski---Porter--- -----------------Hume------Campbell---------------- :thumbup: Good stuff mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 The simple reason Martin Allen won't play the so-called specialist wingers is that he has no confidence in them. If he did, why would he play someone else in those positions? Many of the names being bandied about have failed or underachieved consistently at full-back and on the flanks. It is not cut and dried things would greatly improve by selecting Newton, Porter, Sheehan etc. etc. I put it to the most sensible posters on this forum that, if you were managing even a local park team, in the same circumstances you would do the same. You cannot select players you have little faith in. If you say different then you have never managed a side or are in denial. That or you'd be a crap manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGibbo Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 The simple reason Martin Allen won't play the so-called specialist wingers is that he has no confidence in them. If he did, why would he play someone else in those positions? Many of the names being bandied about have failed or underachieved consistently at full-back and on the flanks. It is not cut and dried things would greatly improve by selecting Newton, Porter, Sheehan etc. etc. I put it to the most sensible posters on this forum that, if you were managing even a local park team, in the same circumstances you would do the same. You cannot select players you have little faith in. If you say different then you have never managed a side or are in denial. That or you'd be a crap manager. this is why we are well me in particular are saying sign some new wide men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibbosuk Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 If we lose at Palace, we are in crisis mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 The simple reason Martin Allen won't play the so-called specialist wingers is that he has no confidence in them. If he did, why would he play someone else in those positions? Many of the names being bandied about have failed or underachieved consistently at full-back and on the flanks. It is not cut and dried things would greatly improve by selecting Newton, Porter, Sheehan etc. etc. I put it to the most sensible posters on this forum that, if you were managing even a local park team, in the same circumstances you would do the same. You cannot select players you have little faith in. If you say different then you have never managed a side or are in denial. That or you'd be a crap manager. Given the self inflicted constraints we have, 4-3-3 may be our best bet but we messed about with personnel last night. Pick any GK, they are all shit. But immeadiately we have problems across the back line, you need pace and without Chambers we have no right back that could do the job required. N'Gotty is great but he again needs pace which rules out McAuley and Kisnorbo and leaves Stearman but he has become an enigma. On the left I'd be reasonably happy with either Mattock or Sheehan to a point. Midfield trio picks itself, Clemence, Wesolowski and Kishishev. That said I am not impressed with Kishishev thus far and Hellings and even Hughes may need to be drafted in. Front 3 has to include a big man and de Vries would be ideal as he holds the ball up so well, sod pumping it to his head, if you are doing that pump it in to the channels. Add Campbell for pace and Fryatt just over Hume for me, for a better footballing brain and we'd be okay. For me that is the best we can do just now, as we don't have a decent tandem of wide men so 4-4-2 and 3 across the back is pointless at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 If he's not going to play wingers than it should be 4-3-3 with the right and left backs bombing on: Hendo/Neilsen (I doubt it makes much difference) Chambers N'Gotty Kisnorbo Mattock Weso Kisi Clemence DJ De Vries Hume Subs: Nielsen/Hendo, Newton (assume Kaebi's not fit), McAuley, Odhiambo, Fryatt If he's going to persist with 4-4-2 then he's GOT to play proper wingers!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 If he's not going to play wingers than it should be 4-3-3 with the right and left backs bombing on:Hendo/Neilsen (I doubt it makes much difference) Chambers N'Gotty Kisnorbo Mattock Weso Kisi Clemence DJ De Vries Hume Subs: Nielsen/Hendo, Newton (assume Kaebi's not fit), McAuley, Odhiambo, Fryatt If he's going to persist with 4-4-2 then he's GOT to play proper wingers!!!!!!!! Well that leaves Newton and Hayes. Thracian is forever telling us that Levi isn't really a winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Well that leaves Newton and Hayes.Thracian is forever telling us that Levi isn't really a winger. I agree with Thrac on a number of things. Levi Porter is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelcfc Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 ----------------------henderson ----------------MacAuley------n'goty stearman-------------------------------sheehan -----------------------clemence wesolowski-------------------------------hayes ----------------------de vries ---------------hume---------campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynny Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 --------------------Henderson---------------------------McAuley-----N'Gotty-------Kisnorbo----- Stearman--------------------------------Mattock ----------Wesolowski------Clemence----------- ----------------------Hume----------------------- -----------Campbell-------De Vries------------- Don't see it happening, but it'd appear to be the system best suited to our team at the moment. I'm quoting my own post so that someone can tell me what's wrong with it. If we've not got wingers, 5-3-2/3-5-2 seems a natural choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 I'm quoting my own post so that someone can tell me what's wrong with it. If we've not got wingers, 5-3-2/3-5-2 seems a natural choice. I'd have no problems with that either- lot of pressure on two young wing backs to get forwards though- and I'm not sure either of them is up to it quite yet. I'd play Kaebi or Chambers on the right if either was fit, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe. Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 We need some bloody width. Henderson N'Gotty Kisnorbo McAuley Sheehan Kaebi (if he's fit? ) Weso Clemence Porter Hume De Vries That's what I'd like to see personally with no proper right back (I'm not counting Stearman, he's an excuse for a right back), N'Gotty would make it for me. With some badly needed width I think De vries would be the best option up front to partner Hume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 The simple reason Martin Allen won't play the so-called specialist wingers is that he has no confidence in them. If he did, why would he play someone else in those positions? Many of the names being bandied about have failed or underachieved consistently at full-back and on the flanks. It is not cut and dried things would greatly improve by selecting Newton, Porter, Sheehan etc. etc. I put it to the most sensible posters on this forum that, if you were managing even a local park team, in the same circumstances you would do the same. You cannot select players you have little faith in. If you say different then you have never managed a side or are in denial. That or you'd be a crap manager. I understand the argument but it has never been tested other than by people like Beaglehole and occasionally by Mike Stowell with the reserves. Every time we pay lip serve to the idea of getting the best out of the Porters, Sheehans, Newtons we hedge our bets. We don't attack wholeheartedly but are forever tempted to compromise. Even Sheehan yesterday was presumably ordered to concentrate on defence. Gradel has never even been picked. The whole point about playing attacking football with wingers and wing backs is that you have to do it from back to front through the whole team not in isolated pockets. You have to commit to attacking with wingers in the same way as others, like George Graham (sadly MA's hero) committed to defensive strategies. Max Gradel is a specialist winger with the rare ability to score stacks of goals. He's quick, tricky and tries things. That's the key really. He tries things. For people to try things players have to know you have belief in them. But why would you have a player in your squad that you have no faith in? People might take time to wonder why the Academy U18's were such a good side. It was not because of the level of the opposition - they've not been the dominant team every year - but because the team was balanced, settled and everyone knew how the others played. Above all though, they were not afraid to try things. To shoot from distance, To support in numbers. To take people on. Players had their strengths and were primarily asked to play to them. There was a natural inbred comeraderie. It is still there among the young players now. They're used to being with each other at work and at leisure. Supporting each other is second nature. And no matter what MM thinks he won't be able to go out and buy that. Champions like Manchester United or Leicester's Under 18's at another level go out to attack everyone from the off. It doesn't vary. The aim from the start is to score the most goals. Every player knows that's the policy and what contribution they're expected to make. It's simple. You don't need motivational psychologists in a team like that. Just being part of it puts you on a high. United won the title with wingers (Giggs/Ronaldo). Our U18's won their title with wingers (Gradel/Beswick). Why on earth would you choose a different route? Because Porter doesn't fly past people?. No problem if you think that. Use Beswick/Hayes. Beswick doesn't fly past people either. But he does deliver accurate crosses quickly and he can defend a bit. When Alan Hinton did that for Forest they won all sorts. Guppy was much the same when City were last a decent team. Forest also had John Roberton on the right. We've got Gradel. We really don't know how damned lucky we are. Of course Gradel's a long way from having Robertson's experience and knowhow. I can't even be sure he's ready yet. But he sounded alright against Forest and has outstanding in the Academy play-off final. But, I would find out and I would show some faith in him...but gradually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibbosuk Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 If someone predicts the correct team to start,do they win a prize????Im only having a go,if there is a prize on offer well I got the Blackpool score right (predicted it here) wot do I win ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibbosuk Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Here's your winning team >>> Henderson Stearman N'Gotty McAuley Sheehan Hume Wesolowski Clemence Fryatt Kishishev De Vries Subs: Newton,Neilsen, Maybury, olihamberger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Even Sheehan yesterday was presumably ordered to concentrate on defence. Yeah I was incandecent with rage about that, imagine the manager getting a defender to defend, sheer lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Yeah I was incandecent with rage about that, imagine the manager getting a defender to defend, sheer lunacy. In nearly three years I cannot ever remember Sheehan completing a game and hardly crossing the halfway line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 In nearly three years I cannot ever remember Sheehan completing a game and hardly crossing the halfway line. You awarded him an assist How far back into a passage of play do you go before awarding one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 You awarded him an assist How far back into a passage of play do you go before awarding one? How long would you like? =============== Sheehan .... 8/9 passes. Fryatt .........1 Porter .........8/9 Maybury ......1 Hume ..........8/9 Hughes ........1 :D PS: But Sheehan was probably in his own half when he started the move for the goal with a crossfield pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durnerz Posted 15 August 2007 Share Posted 15 August 2007 Team for Palace..... ---------------------Henderson----------------------------- N'Gotty------Kisnorbo-----McAuley-------Chambers (if fit) Hume-------Wesolowski---Clemence------Hayes/Porter --------------De Vries-----Odihambo--------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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