Team for Palace

[hebangsthedrums]

henderson

stearman----MacAuley------n'gotty-----------sheehan

---------------------- ---Kish

----------wesolowski------------- clemence

-------------------------Hume

-----------------MDV---------campbell

Subs

Casino Jimmy

Hayes

Levi/Newton

Fryatt

Any match- fit defender

Replace fullbacks with Mattock/Chambers if fit, full backs making forward runs (why does everyone on earth think this should happen except MA ), Can be asily converted to 442 if one of the centre 3 needs to come off by pushing Hume wide right and putting Hayes/Levi/Newton on. MDV will benefit more from having two potential destinations for the flick ons/hold up play. Weso playing in his proper position and Clemence has a chance to show why we paid 750k

[Fez of Mahrez]

henderson

stearman----MacAuley------n'gotty-----------sheehan

---------------------- ---Kish

----------wesolowski------------- clemence

-------------------------Hume

-----------------MDV---------campbell

Subs

Casino Jimmy

Hayes

Levi/Newton

Fryatt

Any match- fit defender

Replace fullbacks with Mattock/Chambers if fit, full backs making forward runs (why does everyone on earth think this should happen except MA ), Can be asily converted to 442 if one of the centre 3 needs to come off by pushing Hume wide right and putting Hayes/Levi/Newton on. MDV will benefit more from having two potential destinations for the flick ons/hold up play. Weso playing in his proper position and Clemence has a chance to show why we paid 750k

I'd be a bit worried by Henderson's positioning there.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

henderson

stearman----MacAuley------n'gotty-----------sheehan

---------------------- ---Kish

----------wesolowski------------- clemence

-------------------------Hume

-----------------MDV---------campbell

Subs

Casino Jimmy

Hayes

Levi/Newton

Fryatt

Any match- fit defender

Replace fullbacks with Mattock/Chambers if fit, full backs making forward runs (why does everyone on earth think this should happen except MA ), Can be asily converted to 442 if one of the centre 3 needs to come off by pushing Hume wide right and putting Hayes/Levi/Newton on. MDV will benefit more from having two potential destinations for the flick ons/hold up play. Weso playing in his proper position and Clemence has a chance to show why we paid 750k

Looks good, why play wingers if we have none also like hume just in front of mdv and dj think it could work.

Would any one like to see Gradel and Odihombo start to get a few games.

[Mark]

Got a feeling N'Gotty will play right back after Accrington game and Kissa will come back in at centre back, so a very slow back 4

------------------- Fulop

N'Gotty -- McAuley -- Kisnorbo -- Clarke

-- Wesolowski -- Clemence -- Kishishev

----- Campbell -- De Vries -- Hume

Subs: Henderson, Stearman, Hayes, Newton, Odihambo

[mancunianfox]

Got a feeling N'Gotty will play right back after Accrington game and Kissa will come back in at centre back, so a very slow back 4

------------------- Fulop

N'Gotty -- McAuley -- Kisnorbo -- Clarke

-- Wesolowski -- Clemence -- Kishishev

----- Campbell -- De Vries -- Hume

Subs: Henderson, Stearman, Hayes, Newton, Odihambo

Theres eight defenders in that team along with three strikers. That certainly wouldn't be pretty.

[leicestercitylad]

Team for palace should be:

Henderson

Stearman

McAuley

N'gotty

Sheenan

Kaebi

Clemence

Wesolowski

Porter

Hume

Campbell

Bench:

Fulop, Newton, Fryatt, hayes, kish

[THEBIGJOHNSTEADER;]

.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Theres eight defenders in that team along with three strikers. That certainly wouldn't be pretty.

Clemence, Kishishev and Wesolowski aren't defenders. Just because they're not Andy frigging King this Thracianism has swept across the whole forum. If all three play to their potential then Clemence and Wesolowski are good box-to-box midfielders who would still create chances even in that formation with the right movement up front and support from the full-backs.

[The People's Hero]

Clemence, Kishishev and Wesolowski aren't defenders. Just because they're not Andy frigging King this Thracianism has swept across the whole forum. If all three play to their potential then Clemence and Wesolowski are good box-to-box midfielders who would still create chances even in that formation with the right movement up front and support from the full-backs.

Exactly.

It's like this Thracian-assertion that you need to play a specialist attacking midfielder in the whole to have any creativity at all.

It's just not true. Clemence, Kish and Weso all have enough about them in order to function as attacking as well as defensive players. Creativity is all a bit misunderstood. It's not about flicks, long hair, arrogance, bad attitude and shiny green boots. It's about spotting a pass and being able to play that pass.

Besides, if runs aren't being made (particularly down the flanks) then you can be as creative as you like, there is nothing on.

[izzetafox?]

Henderson

Stearman

N'Gotty

McAuley

Sheehan

Hume

Wesolowski

Clemence

Porter

Campbell

De Vries

Subs: Nielsen, Mattock, Kishishev, Newton, Odhiambo

Fullop

Kaebi

N'Gotty

Kis/Mcauley

Clarke

Newton

Kish

Clemence

Hayes

Hume

Campbell

[Fez of Mahrez]

Exactly.

It's like this Thracian-assertion that you need to play a specialist attacking midfielder in the whole to have any creativity at all.

It's just not true. Clemence, Kish and Weso all have enough about them in order to function as attacking as well as defensive players. Creativity is all a bit misunderstood. It's not about flicks, long hair, arrogance, bad attitude and shiny green boots. It's about spotting a pass and being able to play that pass.

Besides, if runs aren't being made (particularly down the flanks) then you can be as creative as you like, there is nothing on.

The way I've always looked at it, in a midfield four you need two reliable, committed, energetic players who will win the ball and look comfortable in possession (i.e. Clemence and Wesolowski) and two more attacking players with pace and the ability to create chances. We lacked the two attacking players against Blackpool. With a solid central midfield containing two from Clem, Kish and Weso, you desperately need more attacking options on the wings. Hopefully Kaebi will provide one and it looks like we may have to sign someone on the other side if Hayes and Porter are not deemed to be up to the task.

[The People's Hero]

The way I've always looked at it, in a midfield four you need two reliable, committed, energetic players who will win the ball and look comfortable in possession (i.e. Clemence and Wesolowski) and two more attacking players with pace and the ability to create chances. We lacked the two attacking players against Blackpool. With a solid central midfield containing two from Clem, Kish and Weso, you desperately need more attacking options on the wings. Hopefully Kaebi will provide one and it looks like we may have to sign someone on the other side if Hayes and Porter are not deemed to be up to the task.

Without even seeing us play I can assure you that I agree 100%.

Anyone can appear creative and play as a playmaker from the middle when there is another movement in front of them and enough options down the flanks.

I hate to say it, but I agree with Thracian in terms of the importance of having energetic and mobile flank players (reluctant to use the term 'wingers' as I don't think any teams really play with genuine wingers now) and hardworking full backs who will be available to take the ball.

In a 4-4-2, the central midfielders, whilst in possession should have an embarrassment of options available to them in terms of where the ball goes.

I'm going to use another Thracianism now and compare us to a team far better than us. Watch Arsenal or Manchester United or Liverpool, with a central midfielder in possession. Unrushed and with so many options. There is so much movement. The ball is usually simple and effective. No problems.

The point I'm making is, we don't need a Berkovic, a Ginola, a Beckham or even a sodding Gareth Williams... those middle two (from three) should be good enough, providing they are given the options which a 4-4-2 needs to be effective.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Without even seeing us play I can assure you that I agree 100%.

Anyone can appear creative and play as a playmaker from the middle when there is another movement in front of them and enough options down the flanks.

I hate to say it, but I agree with Thracian in terms of the importance of having energetic and mobile flank players (reluctant to use the term 'wingers' as I don't think any teams really play with genuine wingers now) and hardworking full backs who will be available to take the ball.

In a 4-4-2, the central midfielders, whilst in possession should have an embarrassment of options available to them in terms of where the ball goes.

I'm going to use another Thracianism now and compare us to a team far better than us. Watch Arsenal or Manchester United or Liverpool, with a central midfielder in possession. Unrushed and with so many options. There is so much movement. The ball is usually simple and effective. No problems.

The point I'm making is, we don't need a Berkovic, a Ginola, a Beckham or even a sodding Gareth Williams... those middle two (from three) should be good enough, providing they are given the options which a 4-4-2 needs to be effective.

Exactly. Our most dangerous player going forward on Saturday was James Chambers. If we had the same sort of direct threat from LB, LM and RM that we had from him that day then we would romp this league. Sadly he was the only one on the pitch who looked to offer an option from defence or midfield to whoever was in possession. I've got big hopes for Kaebi.

[Thracian]

Clemence, Kishishev and Wesolowski aren't defenders. Just because they're not Andy frigging King this Thracianism has swept across the whole forum. If all three play to their potential then Clemence and Wesolowski are good box-to-box midfielders who would still create chances even in that formation with the right movement up front and support from the full-backs.

Who's mentioned Andy King this season?

Because I thought King should get preference over Jarrett and Hughes doesn't in anyway suggest he'd displace Kishishev, Clemence or Wesolowski.

There's no question Wesolowski is showing some creativeness - enough to have made him by far our best midfielder for a month including pre-season.

But Clemence and Kishishev are sitting back and Clemence has never shown signs of being genuinely "box-to-box" anymore. He's even struggled to dominate the centre, ranking no more than disappointing so far.

Kishishev's clearly a sound player but has not looked especially fit so there's no significant creativity there either.

And how will there be support from full-backs?. Sheehan, who was reduced to being an out-and-out defender anyway at Accrington, looks like being replaced by a guy who may surprise me but is hardly a household name as an attacking full-back, despite consdierable experience.

And Mattock may never be seen again judging by reaction to his momentary lapse and, in any case, is not what I would call genuinely creative.

On the right it is all down to the injured Chambers, the inconsistent Stearman or the unknown Ka'ebi. The latter carries the high hopes of all of us but anyone who cannot hold down a regular place in the Iran side is hardly guaranteed to be a star turn in the Championship.

However I look forward to being wrong on this and to seeing new sources of attacking creativity that I never expected.

[The People's Hero]

Who's mentioned Andy King this season?

Because I thought King should get preference over Jarrett and Hughes doesn't in anyway suggest he'd displace Kishishev, Clemence or Wesolowski.

There's no question Wesolowski is showing some creativeness - enough to have made him by far our best midfielder for a month including pre-season.

But Clemence and Kishishev are sitting back and Clemence has never shown signs of being genuinely "box-to-box" anymore. He's even struggled to dominate the centre, ranking no more than disappointing so far.

Kishishev's clearly a sound player but has not looked especially fit so there's no significant creativity there either.

And how will there be support from full-backs?. Sheehan, who was reduced to being an out-and-out defender anyway at Accrington, looks like being replaced by a guy who may surprise me but is hardly a household name as an attacking full-back, despite consdierable experience.

And Mattock may never be seen again judging by reaction to his momentary lapse and, in any case, is not what I would call genuinely creative.

On the right it is all down to the injured Chambers, the inconsistent Stearman or the unknown Ka'ebi. The latter carries the high hopes of all of us but anyone who cannot hold down a regular place in the Iran side is hardly guaranteed to be a star turn in the Championship.

However I look forward to being wrong on this and to seeing new sources of attacking creativity that I never expected.

If you check my last post Thracian, you might find we have stumbled across some common ground.

I'm shelving my retirement plans with Daggers and coming to live with you, in whichever country you bought your last place in!

[mancunianfox]

Exactly.

It's like this Thracian-assertion that you need to play a specialist attacking midfielder in the whole to have any creativity at all.

It's just not true. Clemence, Kish and Weso all have enough about them in order to function as attacking as well as defensive players. Creativity is all a bit misunderstood. It's not about flicks, long hair, arrogance, bad attitude and shiny green boots. It's about spotting a pass and being able to play that pass.

Besides, if runs aren't being made (particularly down the flanks) then you can be as creative as you like, there is nothing on.

I didn't say that there needs to be the kind of flair/creative player that Thracian advocates as I don't really care for that type of footballer. I prefer midfielders who will play passes, win balls and support the attack as opposed to one player to defend and one to attack and I think Weso and Clemence can do that. However with Kish lumped in their in a 4-3-3 the team looks very defensive as the two midfielders would have to spend a lot of time containing the opposition midfield, especially away from home and as we already look weak when we play sides with decent wide players.

I would much rather see two wide players in the line up as that 4-3-3 is too narrow. A three man midfield would only work for me in a 5-3-2 with two fullbacks also going forward to support the attack.

[The People's Hero]

I didn't say that there needs to be the kind of flair/creative player that Thracian advocates as I don't really care for that type of footballer. I prefer midfielders who will play passes, win balls and support the attack as opposed to one player to defend and one to attack and I think Weso and Clemence can do that. However with Kish lumped in their in a 4-3-3 the team looks very defensive as the two midfielders would have to spend a lot of time containing the opposition midfield, especially away from home and as we already look weak when we play sides with decent wide players.

I would much rather see two wide players in the line up as that 4-3-3 is too narrow. A three man midfield would only work for me in a 5-3-2 with two fullbacks also going forward to support the attack.

Fully agreed.

Weso/Kish/Clem should be a 2 from 3.

With Clemence as club captain and proven at this level just last year for an entire campaign, you'd have to assume it will be Clemence + 1 of those.

Whichever 2 play in the middle, we need some fit, mobile players down the flanks who will ALWAYS provide an option.

[Ric Flair]

SHEENAN

[mancunianfox]

Fully agreed.

Weso/Kish/Clem should be a 2 from 3.

With Clemence as club captain and proven at this level just last year for an entire campaign, you'd have to assume it will be Clemence + 1 of those.

Whichever 2 play in the middle, we need some fit, mobile players down the flanks who will ALWAYS provide an option.

Clemence and Weso for me. Clemence looks a better player when Weso's in the centre. Kishishev hasn't convinced me yet. Allen seems to know that the three of them are hard to choose from and I'ma bit dissapointed that he's trying to play all three in a system that doesn't really accomodate them. If he is going to play 4-4-2 he must have the bottle to put one of the three on the bench because Weso playing right of left midfield is just not going to work.

[Thracian]

If you check my last post Thracian, you might find we have stumbled across some common ground.

I'm shelving my retirement plans with Daggers and coming to live with you, in whichever country you bought your last place in!

Well, well, well!

Sadly, knowing your liking for a drink I don't think Moslem Dubai would necessarily be ideal.

[Manwell Pablo]

Well, well, well!

Sadly, knowing your liking for a drink I don't think Moslem Dubai would necessarily be ideal.

They have pubs in Dubai.

Don't they?

[Flynny]

I'm starting to feel like my whole life's been a lie.

[Thracian]

I didn't say that there needs to be the kind of flair/creative player that Thracian advocates as I don't really care for that type of footballer. I prefer midfielders who will play passes, win balls and support the attack as opposed to one player to defend and one to attack and I think Weso and Clemence can do that. However with Kish lumped in their in a 4-3-3 the team looks very defensive as the two midfielders would have to spend a lot of time containing the opposition midfield, especially away from home and as we already look weak when we play sides with decent wide players.

I would much rather see two wide players in the line up as that 4-3-3 is too narrow. A three man midfield would only work for me in a 5-3-2 with two fullbacks also going forward to support the attack.

I'm happy with all of that. My specialist creative midfielder would only come about if, due to lack of genuine wide players, we played 4-3-3 as the best alternative.

I much prefer playing with wingers and attacking full-backs - and have been advocating it for ages. There would, as mentioned be the maximum passing opportunities all round and four chances of getting dangerous balls in from the flanks.

Trouble is at Leicester we probably have the players generally but we don't have the nerve to use em as we should.

Kaebi/Gradel/Chambers/Stearman on the right, Sheehan/Hayes/Beswick/Mattock on the left. Are we blessed or what?

[Fez of Mahrez]

I'm happy with all of that. My specialist creative midfielder would only come about if, due to lack of genuine wide players, we played 4-3-3 as the best alternative.

I much prefer playing with wingers and attacking full-backs - and have been advocating it for ages. There would, as mentioned be the maximum passing opportunities all round and four chances of getting dangerous balls in from the flanks.

Trouble is at Leicester we probably have the players generally but we don't have the nerve to use em as we should.

Kaebi/Gradel/Chambers/Stearman on the right, Sheehan/Hayes/Beswick/Mattock on the left. Are we blessed or what?

I vote what.

[mancunianfox]

I'm happy with all of that. My specialist creative midfielder would only come about if, due to lack of genuine wide players, we played 4-3-3 as the best alternative.

I much prefer playing with wingers and attacking full-backs - and have been advocating it for ages. There would, as mentioned be the maximum passing opportunities all round and four chances of getting dangerous balls in from the flanks.

Trouble is at Leicester we probably have the players generally but we don't have the nerve to use em as we should.

Kaebi/Gradel/Chambers/Stearman on the right, Sheehan/Hayes/Beswick/Mattock on the left. Are we blessed or what?

The right looks strong but will look much weaker if Kaebi turns out to be a poor player. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the left though. Hayes and Mattock have something about them but in noway is our left side blessed. Cursed would be a better choice.

Whoever said that 4-4-2 should create a lot of passing options was right. However that only happens if players move well off of the ball and that has been our biggest problem for years now. Thats why Hayes and Chambers looked good on Saturday because they would make a short pass and then bomb down the wing waiting for the ball to be returned to them. Our players normally tend to pass the ball and then hope that it doesn't come back to them. Thats why it was so easy for Blackpool to win the ball back from us because we were passing it between players who weren't moving and their midfield knew exactly who it was going to.