Man refuses to drive 'No God' Bus

[Zingari]

did you see the micheal portillo programme on ch4 last night on religion in politics? it was very interesting, and is basically the fault of 1 roman! it was interesting how they (the religions (mainly christian)) had to revise their stance on war and meekness.

i get you re the greenness, but as i'm a sceptic, i still end up having to tow the green-line, the same as i do with god based religions in politics. it's shit if you're me!

was it that roman who made brian of nazereth write out a 100 times " romanus domus eunt " ?

i'll try to look out fot the portillo prog , it's bound to be repeated

[Dr The Singh]

Who knows why some people take theirs as being 100% true. The Muslims say that Christians and Jews (and others) are the same as them. In their book (the Koran) it says about 300 times that they should respect Jews and Christians. Muslims believe in all prophets from Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah and Solomon etc. There are alot of power mad people who try to use religion to get their own followers but that doesn't make the actual religion bad. Who knows where the first book is. (Probably in the vatican or somewhere, because don't forget that alot of armys have gone into Holy places over the past thousand or so years and plundered all the treasures. That is not conspiracy but fact. Crusades etc.) The only book that is still in it's original form is the Koran. The Bible has been changed over 300 times but the true words are still around somewhere. I have read old texts where Jesus says 'I am just a man like you so do not worship me, worship Him who created us.' But the books have been changed to him saying 'I am God'.

People also say that Jesus is ancient but he was around very recently. If you take 20 people who have lived to 100 back in time, that is when we are talking about. Not long ago

Very debatable, modern scholary would say different!! Plus you missed out the Guru Granth Sahib, which is the only book written by those that created the faith!!!

For me religion is a personal thing, aslong as you don't intrude on anyone else and anyone else does not intrude on your beliefs then with some common sense the religious, the non religious should be able to live happily ever after!!!

The debates of who's religion is best, is abit like saying who's poo is better - pointless. The fact that your gonna support your belief and pick at others goes against all religious beliefs. All religious doctrines and writings have been written by man (although some might say they were enlightened) and hence imperfect. Another interesting thing is that most people follow there religion in which there born into, and majorirty of those have very little knowledge of there faiths, infact it's man's tribal nature is probably the deciding factor for the following of a faith. Plus there's education, and technology\science, many religious 'theories' have been answered by answer. The more advanced mankind becomes, the less there is a need of religion!!

Now there is a new uprising, which has become a religion, it's athiesm, unfortunately there writings have the same failings as religious doctrines, they don't answer everything and are not perfect. Mankind is still very young, and will probably destroy itself long before all can be answered!!

For me religion has always been used as a tool for one's or one's group (tribalism) superiority!!

PS - These are general points, not applicable to all religions but the majority!!

[cisono]

Very debatable, modern scholary would say different!! Plus you missed out the Guru Granth Sahib, which is the only book written by those that created the faith!!!

For me religion is a personal thing, aslong as you don't intrude on anyone else and anyone else does not intrude on your beliefs then with some common sense the religious, the non religious should be able to live happily ever after!!!

The debates of who's religion is best, is abit like saying who's poo is better - pointless. The fact that your gonna support your belief and pick at others goes against all religious beliefs. All religious doctrines and writings have been written by man (although some might say they were enlightened) and hence imperfect. Another interesting thing is that most people follow there religion in which there born into, and majorirty of those have very little knowledge of there faiths, infact it's man's tribal nature is probably the deciding factor for the following of a faith. Plus there's education, and technology\science, many religious 'theories' have been answered by answer. The more advanced mankind becomes, the less there is a need of religion!!

Now there is a new uprising, which has become a religion, it's athiesm, unfortunately there writings have the same failings as religious doctrines, they don't answer everything and are not perfect. Mankind is still very young, and will probably destroy itself long before all can be answered!!

For me religion has always been used as a tool for one's or one's group (tribalism) superiority!!

PS - These are general points, not applicable to all religions but the majority!!

sociologically deep but probably quite accurate

[Zingari]

Very debatable, modern scholary would say different!! Plus you missed out the Guru Granth Sahib, which is the only book written by those that created the faith!!!

For me religion is a personal thing, aslong as you don't intrude on anyone else and anyone else does not intrude on your beliefs then with some common sense the religious, the non religious should be able to live happily ever after!!!

The debates of who's religion is best, is abit like saying who's poo is better - pointless. The fact that your gonna support your belief and pick at others goes against all religious beliefs. All religious doctrines and writings have been written by man (although some might say they were enlightened) and hence imperfect. Another interesting thing is that most people follow there religion in which there born into, and majorirty of those have very little knowledge of there faiths, infact it's man's tribal nature is probably the deciding factor for the following of a faith. Plus there's education, and technology\science, many religious 'theories' have been answered by answer. The more advanced mankind becomes, the less there is a need of religion!!

Now there is a new uprising, which has become a religion, it's athiesm, unfortunately there writings have the same failings as religious doctrines, they don't answer everything and are not perfect. Mankind is still very young, and will probably destroy itself long before all can be answered!!

For me religion has always been used as a tool for one's or one's group (tribalism) superiority!!

PS - These are general points, not applicable to all religions but the majority!!

not sure if it was intentional , but that's a good argument against religion

[Dr The Singh]

not sure if it was intentional , but that's a good argument against religion

It's an honest answer, i'm no athiest or against religion, like I said it may not be applicable to all faiths but it is applicable.

There are faiths that believe in evolution etc as an physical order(hukum) created by a superior from\energy, they believe the whole ecosystem, universe is a part of this order and all are connected\in synergy with this hukum, I accept that they probably don't have the answers many seek, but it gives those that do want answer to go and learn and seek further answers!!!

There are many faiths with differing beliefs, with new ones being created all the time, such as scientology, sexology(created by me), mankind will express itself in many ways, this is the beauty of mankind, and it's strength, and should not be limited by one religion, one doctrine, one book or one ideology!!

[Phube]

As the great Dawkins says:

We're all atheists about Roman, Viking, Celtic, Aztec Gods...

Some just go one God further!

BTW it's all about the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

[Alexikokopops]

As the great Dawkins says:

BTW it's all about the Flying Spaghettin Monster!

I'm not. I'm agnostic. I'd love it if the ancient Egyptians had it all right. Anubis was a right bad ass

Oh, and Richard Dawkins just comes across as a right wankstain.

[Phube]

Oh, and Richard Dawkins just comes across as a right wankstain.

People who are right, and know it, often are!

He's my hero!

[Alexikokopops]

People who are right, and know it, often are!

He's my hero!

I'm bringing this back:

"So the other day I'm flopping about in my pants watching The Root of All Evil, Richard Dawkins' new Channel 4 series about religion, and it's alternating between terrifying and hilarious. Terrifying because it feels like a report detailing the final seconds before the world slides into an all-out holy fistfight, and hilarious because every time Dawkins meets a religious spokesman, which he does at regular intervals throughout the programme, he quickly becomes far too angry to conduct a civil conversation with them - visibly fumes, in fact, and adopts the expression of an outraged Victorian gentleman who's just been mooned by a cackling street urchin while escorting a lady across Bloomsbury Square. It doesn't exactly move the debate forward."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/13/religion.comment

[The People's Hero]

I'm bringing this back:

"So the other day I'm flopping about in my pants watching The Root of All Evil, Richard Dawkins' new Channel 4 series about religion, and it's alternating between terrifying and hilarious. Terrifying because it feels like a report detailing the final seconds before the world slides into an all-out holy fistfight, and hilarious because every time Dawkins meets a religious spokesman, which he does at regular intervals throughout the programme, he quickly becomes far too angry to conduct a civil conversation with them - visibly fumes, in fact, and adopts the expression of an outraged Victorian gentleman who's just been mooned by a cackling street urchin while escorting a lady across Bloomsbury Square. It doesn't exactly move the debate forward."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/13/religion.comment

The book is a well reasoned piece and hangs together very well as a cogent and cohesive argument.

The fact that his fervency often gets the better of him when faced with these sort of fantasists, does not make his points any less valid.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm bringing this back:

"So the other day I'm flopping about in my pants watching The Root of All Evil, Richard Dawkins' new Channel 4 series about religion, and it's alternating between terrifying and hilarious. Terrifying because it feels like a report detailing the final seconds before the world slides into an all-out holy fistfight, and hilarious because every time Dawkins meets a religious spokesman, which he does at regular intervals throughout the programme, he quickly becomes far too angry to conduct a civil conversation with them - visibly fumes, in fact, and adopts the expression of an outraged Victorian gentleman who's just been mooned by a cackling street urchin while escorting a lady across Bloomsbury Square. It doesn't exactly move the debate forward."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/13/religion.comment

Unfortunately Dawkins rarely got that chance to meet religious people from non-abrahamic faiths, he may of found some interested parallels of his work and that of those beliefs!!!

[Zingari]

The book is a well reasoned piece and hangs together very well as a cogent and cohesive argument.

The fact that his fervency often gets the better of him when faced with these sort of fantasists, does not make his points any less valid.

spot on and there was far more anger directed at Dawkins for daring to offer different explanations . one american evangelist seemed more than happy to have him forcibly driven out of town with very thinly veiled threats .

the "outraged victorian" outburst description suits his detractors far more than him

[The People's Hero]

The book is a well reasoned piece and hangs together very well as a cogent and cohesive argument.

The fact that his fervency often gets the better of him when faced with these sort of fantasists, does not make his points any less valid.

spot on

See? I can make a good point when the fancy takes me.

If only it would take me more often.

[Alexikokopops]

The book is a well reasoned piece and hangs together very well as a cogent and cohesive argument.

The fact that his fervency often gets the better of him when faced with these sort of fantasists, does not make his points any less valid.

I never said I did. My point was that he comes across as a wankstain. That quotation was just supporting my personal view point. Wankstain

[Phube]

I never said I did. My point was that he comes across as a wankstain. That quotation was just supporting my personal view point. Wankstain

Intelligent, correct wankstain!

[The People's Hero]

Fair point, mate.

I admire him for standing up and making his point.

For too long religion has been relatively unquestionable.

[Alexikokopops]

Intelligent, correct wankstain!

But a wankstain non-the-less

[The People's Hero]

Alex, wouldst thou regale me with a funny email to cheer me up?

[Zingari]

I never said I did. My point was that he comes across as a wankstain. That quotation was just supporting my personal view point. Wankstain

I' m sure many people come across as Wankstains to many people , and i'm equally sure that a reference to someone else who thinks they are also Wankstains could easily be found .

But it really does not mean anything other than two people have the same opinion that someone is a Wankstain . Which they may or may not be of course .

But let me tell you this , the Wankstains are a very well regarded family that is very particular who uses its name for public promotion If Mr Dawkins is attempting to pass himself off as a Wankstain he'll be hearing from my lawyers

yours sincerly

Mr Wankstain

The Old Tosspot

Mucky Water

Cumbria

[BoneDog]

Very debatable, modern scholary would say different!! Plus you missed out the Guru Granth Sahib, which is the only book written by those that created the faith!!!

For me religion is a personal thing, aslong as you don't intrude on anyone else and anyone else does not intrude on your beliefs then with some common sense the religious, the non religious should be able to live happily ever after!!!

Which scholars would say that out of the major religious books the Koran is not the only one in its original form?

And what is the Guru Granth Sahib? Not being insulting I just don't know honestly.

I agree with what you say about religion being a personal thing. I have never tried to intrude on anyones beliefs, I am just joining in chats about it on this forum. I also don't know anyone who gets their own life disrupted by anybody religious. You hear people talk about religion on tv and stuff but I don't think anyone in the UK gets other peoples views forced on them.

[Dr The Singh]

Which scholars would say that out of the major religious books the Koran is not the only one in its original form?

And what is the Guru Granth Sahib? Not being insulting I just don't know honestly.

I agree with what you say about religion being a personal thing. I have never tried to intrude on anyones beliefs, I am just joining in chats about it on this forum. I also don't know anyone who gets their own life disrupted by anybody religious. You hear people talk about religion on tv and stuff but I don't think anyone in the UK gets other peoples views forced on them.

Mate, you really need to do some research, Islam is being reconstructed from a historical and religious perspective by modern researchers, theoligan's and eminant professors form many universities. The world is far more open for debate!! Not wanting to deviate to a discussion on Islam, there are many sources, the web being one, it has many articles on the formation and history of the quran, you can make of it as you wish, a prime example is by Richard Hooker for the Washington State university who writes:

....Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an , 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text.

[BoneDog]

Now there is a new uprising, which has become a religion, it's athiesm, unfortunately there writings have the same failings as religious doctrines, they don't answer everything and are not perfect.!

Yes there are some atheists around but out of just over 6 billion people in the world apparently about 5 billion of them believe in a creating force. There are around 2.1 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims and 900 million Hindus. That adds up to 3 out of 4 people in the world. Then you have all the other religions too. And out of the remaining 1 billion alot of them are agnostic not atheist.

Atheists amount to a tiny minority of the worlds population.

You might say that these 5 plus billion people are deluded but I would disagree. I'm not saying they are correct either. I think that for people to believe that there is some extraordinary power that is controlling all the planets orbit through space is very understandable.

We are now all standing on a piece of rock that is just floating in the middle of nowhere. It is not held up by strings or wires. It is held up by an invisible force. This piece of rock (and all the others) is also spinning at so many thousand miles per hour whilst at the same time going round and round the Sun in a never ending orbit. It never leaves it's set course and never malfunctions. So why is it unrealistic for someone to believe that there is an unknown power controlling all these miracles?

I think that people who believe that what is seen in the above video was not an accident are more likely on the right track than those who think it all just appeared out of nowhere.

But I am not saying that those who think it was all a chance occurence are wrong. None of us know.

[BoneDog]

Mate, you really need to do some research, Islam is being reconstructed from a historical and religious perspective by modern researchers, theoligan's and eminant professors form many universities. The world is far more open for debate!! Not wanting to deviate to a discussion on Islam, there are many sources, the web being one, it has many articles on the formation and history of the quran, you can make of it as you wish, a prime example is by Richard Hooker for the Washington State university who writes:

....Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an , 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text.

I'm not saying anything about the Koran apart from it is still in its original form, word for word and comma for comma. There are still original texts on pieces of bark in museums. It is not a fantasy, all historians and scholars agree on this fact. It is written in the Britannica Encyclopedia.

You could be correct when you say that there are some copies that have been changed but all I mean is that you can still read the original form.

[Phube]

Yes there are some atheists around but out of just over 6 billion people in the world apparently about 5 billion of them believe in a creating force. There are around 2.1 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims and 900 million Hindus. That adds up to 3 out of 4 people in the world. Then you have all the other religions too. And out of the remaining 1 billion alot of them are agnostic not atheist.

Atheists amount to a tiny minority of the worlds population.

You might say that these 5 plus billion people are deluded but I would disagree. I'm not saying they are correct either. I think that for people to believe that there is some extraordinary power that is controlling all the planets orbit through space is very understandable.

We are now all standing on a piece of rock that is just floating in the middle of nowhere. It is not held up by strings or wires. It is held up by an invisible force. This piece of rock (and all the others) is also spinning at so many thousand miles per hour whilst at the same time going round and round the Sun in a never ending orbit. It never leaves it's set course and never malfunctions. So why is it unrealistic for someone to believe that there is an unknown power controlling all these miracles?

I think that people who believe that what is seen in the above video was not an accident are more likely on the right track than those who think it all just appeared out of nowhere.

Errm... because science has answered this bit! It's all pretty simple it's called GRAVITY! look it up!

You should read Dawkins' 'proper' books, I'm reading "The Blind Watchmaker" at the mo' and it's all about evolution... and how our brains have evolved not to be able to grasp the concept. It takes too long, our brains work in minutes, days, years etc. ... not tens of thousands of years. So we find it easier to assume there is a designer (like we design stuff; cars, planes, computers etc.).

The whole world thought it was flat at some point... does it mean they were right?

[Dr The Singh]

I'm not saying anything about the Koran apart from it is still in its original form, word for word and comma for comma. There are still original texts on pieces of bark in museums. It is not a fantasy, all historians and scholars agree on this fact. It is written in the Britannica Encyclopedia.

Mate, I proved to you beyond doubt that some scholars would debate the idea of a unchanged Koran. The FACT is that it's not a fact that the Koran was never changed form it's prophets recitations!!!

Mate, I take it you haven't read what's on the Encyclopedia Britannica site, read for yourself: <_<

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/487666/Quran

ʿUthmān chose Zayd ibn Thābit to prepare a definitive version, which he did with the help of three natives of Mecca. A copy was kept in Medina, and others were sent to Damascus, Kufa, Yemen, and possibly Basra. Copies containing alternate readings were destroyed, and ʿUthmān’s edition became the standard text of the Qurʾān and has remained so ever since.

Substantiating, hookers research!!!

Mate, you really are a fool, you really ought to do your research yourself rather then going onto pro Islamic sites and taking for granted what shit they've written!!!

This is the last i will say on this matter, to debate with a fool is like having an ape for a wife, totally pointless!!!