Finnegan Posted 15 March 2009 Author Posted 15 March 2009 I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously I could use France losing but if we lose next week and England whoop France then we could still finish below you. Yeseterday was abysmal - in hindsight I have no idea what they were thinking playing a second-string pack against Italy who only have their forwards going for them. Fair enough to make some changes in the backs but that was utterly stupid. We really, really needed to beat them solidly. We now have to beat Ireland by 14 points to win the tournament. Never going to happen.
dandannieldanok Posted 15 March 2009 Posted 15 March 2009 I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously I could use France losing but if we lose next week and England whoop France then we could still finish below you. Yeseterday was abysmal - in hindsight I have no idea what they were thinking playing a second-string pack against Italy who only have their forwards going for him. Fair enough to make some changes in the backs but that was utterly stupid. We really, really needed to beat them solidly. We now have to beat Ireland by 14 points to win the tournament. Never going to happen. Agreed, I respect Gatland but I thought he made some extremely strange decisions yesterday. Ireland do look shabby though, haven't really played well since the France game, 14 points isn't out of the question.
Finnegan Posted 15 March 2009 Author Posted 15 March 2009 Agreed, I respect Gatland but I thought he made some extremely strange decisions yesterday. Ireland do look shabby though, haven't really played well since the France game, 14 points isn't out of the question. But we've been shabby, too. We only beat England because your discipline was diabolical, we struggled to beat Scotland and we utterly gifted France a win. I can see us winning in Cardiff but it'll be scrappy I imagine. It'll take a huge turn around for us to go there and dominate them by three scores.
dandannieldanok Posted 15 March 2009 Posted 15 March 2009 The exact same move to the one that broke down against Ireland when Tait didn't look up and pass to Flutey, France haven't done their homework.
Finnegan Posted 15 March 2009 Author Posted 15 March 2009 France are SHOCKING. Why couldn't they have played like this against us!? I'm feeling a WACCOE moment coming on here... =P
dandannieldanok Posted 15 March 2009 Posted 15 March 2009 Bloody hell England are rampant........................................and France are equally terrible. Don't want half time now.
Finnegan Posted 15 March 2009 Author Posted 15 March 2009 This is a serious problem for us. We CANNOT lose to Ireland. I fancied an English win but not by this much!
isaidno Posted 15 March 2009 Posted 15 March 2009 It's the best England have played in a long while, absolutely dominant
dandannieldanok Posted 15 March 2009 Posted 15 March 2009 Easy, cruised through the second-half after battering them in the first half. Not sure what happened to France since beating Wales; England were very good but were only required to pick the holes of a desperately poor defence rather than play genius rugby.
Finnegan Posted 15 March 2009 Author Posted 15 March 2009 Easy, cruised through the second-half after battering them in the first half. Not sure what happened to France since beating Wales; England were very good but were only required to pick the holes of a desperately poor defence rather than play genius rugby. Pretty much spot on really. Strange game, really.
Sparky Posted 15 March 2009 Posted 15 March 2009 Croft finally !!!!We will hammer the French now You either know your stuff or you dont
Ultra Posted 16 March 2009 Posted 16 March 2009 Who knows what might happen if we EVER manage to play the whole game with a full side? Didn't expect anything like this. Yeah, France were poor but England never allowed them to settle. Credit to Johnno and his staff for preparing the side well. More of the same against Scotland next week please.
Finnegan Posted 16 March 2009 Author Posted 16 March 2009 You could play like that against Scotland and still only win by a couple of points, really. England did everything they needed to right but they weren't extravagant. Take nothing away from England because in the context of their tournament so far that was probably the best performance a side's put in. But they didn't look dazzlingly world class, not yet, it's important that the English fans keep their feet on the ground I think. Start piling on the expectation too soon and you'll end up back where you started. Scotland are a good side, a battling side and this game will mean a lot to them. They'll be a hundred, bzillion times better than France were yesterday and they'll be no push overs at all.
dandannieldanok Posted 16 March 2009 Posted 16 March 2009 You could play like that against Scotland and still only win by a couple of points, really. England did everything they needed to right but they weren't extravagant. Take nothing away from England because in the context of their tournament so far that was probably the best performance a side's put in.But they didn't look dazzlingly world class, not yet, it's important that the English fans keep their feet on the ground I think. Start piling on the expectation too soon and you'll end up back where you started. Scotland are a good side, a battling side and this game will mean a lot to them. They'll be a hundred, bzillion times better than France were yesterday and they'll be no push overs at all. Maybe I'm biased, but I don't rate Scotland at all apart from spirit and battle. Obviously that will be a marked improvement on France ,but as long as England keep up the same intensity and discipline, I can't see us losing. In my eyes, Scotland don't have much of a game plan and I've never been sure as to what influence Frank Hadden has. I hope I'm right and the Scots flatter to deceive but with England anything could happen.
Sparky Posted 16 March 2009 Posted 16 March 2009 You could play like that against Scotland and still only win by a couple of points, really. England did everything they needed to right but they weren't extravagant. Take nothing away from England because in the context of their tournament so far that was probably the best performance a side's put in.But they didn't look dazzlingly world class, not yet, it's important that the English fans keep their feet on the ground I think. Start piling on the expectation too soon and you'll end up back where you started. Scotland are a good side, a battling side and this game will mean a lot to them. They'll be a hundred, bzillion times better than France were yesterday and they'll be no push overs at all. I think that is absolutley key , we are still very much work in progress . Considering the pasting we got by the southern hemesphere in the autumn i think a fair few positives can be taken . We are far more expansive than Ashton and Woodwoods teams , maybe due to the fact that our pack isnt as good as it once was but were as attractive as i can remember. Ricky Flutey and Delon Armitage look very good international players and i may keep going on but Tom Croft could go on to be a superb player . A good performance and result against the Scots would leave me fairly pleased with the progress we have made since the autumn
CosbehFox Posted 16 March 2009 Posted 16 March 2009 You could play like that against Scotland and still only win by a couple of points, really. England did everything they needed to right but they weren't extravagant. Take nothing away from England because in the context of their tournament so far that was probably the best performance a side's put in.But they didn't look dazzlingly world class, not yet, it's important that the English fans keep their feet on the ground I think. Start piling on the expectation too soon and you'll end up back where you started. Scotland are a good side, a battling side and this game will mean a lot to them. They'll be a hundred, bzillion times better than France were yesterday and they'll be no push overs at all. Mucho agreed, Finnegan. The French were defeated once 7-0 down, different game against the Scots. Six Nations have rather been a drab affair, the team making the least amount of mistakes is top of the table. But as Sparky's said, it's done the job this Six Nations. We've found a few players, Johnno's getting into his rhythm, we're a work in progress and generally we've stuck with the same players. A win against the Scots however would put the gloss on it, if we lose, the press will think it's been a poor campaign but really it's been the most beneficial campaign in a while. Get rid of Vickery please though Johnno, still a liability - never had it, never will.
Finnegan Posted 17 March 2009 Author Posted 17 March 2009 I think that is absolutley key , we are still very much work in progress . Considering the pasting we got by the southern hemesphere in the autumn i think a fair few positives can be taken . We are far more expansive than Ashton and Woodwoods teams , maybe due to the fact that our pack isnt as good as it once was but were as attractive as i can remember. Ricky Flutey and Delon Armitage look very good international players and i may keep going on but Tom Croft could go on to be a superb player . A good performance and result against the Scots would leave me fairly pleased with the progress we have made since the autumn Everyone's very quick to classify Jonno as a big bruiser from a Tigers team of big bruisers but as a four time season ticket holder at Welford Road I have to say some of the best, most expansive and most creative club rugby I've ever seen was right here in Leicester. Jonno was as much a part of that as anyone else and it'll be a big part of his mentality and his style. He'll want to play good rugby. It worried me when he brought in Goode and looked like he just wanted to ruin games but I have to say I find England fairly exciting at the moment. It's nice to have another team in the tournament that look like they want to play good rugby and not just kick their way to low score wins. Like I said, I don't think England were especially extravagant and their try count HUGELY flatters them having been gifted at least three or four against the French and three at the hands of Bergamasco but there's definitely a new found intent that - like Sparky says - has been long missing under previous regimes. Scotland are underrated, though. They do need a decent manager but the playing staff are there and they've a handsome side when they want to flaunt it. The Calcutta Cup absolutely brings the best out of the Jocks - even on a bad year they've as much chance of beating England away as they have of doing Italy at home, haha, that's just how unpredictable they are. I'd fancy England by seven or eight points unless they completely collapse and get rattled by the Scots (definitely possible, I'm sorry to say) - I think Wales will win by a similar margin in Cardiff, too, unless O'Driscoll is able to inspire something that'll be remembered for decades. Ireland for the Championship but not the Slam.
Bert Posted 17 March 2009 Posted 17 March 2009 If Ireland get the Slam, it'll be their for 60 odd years won't it? Who were the last team to get "The slam"??
Finnegan Posted 17 March 2009 Author Posted 17 March 2009 If Ireland get the Slam, it'll be their for 60 odd years won't it?Who were the last team to get "The slam"?? Wales in 08 and 05. Before that, err... presumably France but I'm not sure when. Will check for you now boyo. Here we go, since the turn of the millenium: 1999–2001 Not achieved 2002 France 2003 England 2004 France 2005 Wales 2006–07 Not achieved 2008 Wales
dandannieldanok Posted 21 March 2009 Posted 21 March 2009 We're going to finish fourth. To be fair you deserved it really, I've been less and less impressed with Wales as the tourno has gone on. Solid but unspectacular against the Scots, outscored on tries by England, beaten by France, scraped past Italy and beaten by Ireland. Not sure whether Ireland deserved to take the grand slam really, apart from the France game they've pretty much stumbled to victories. O'Driscoll deserves it though, he is such an inspiration for what I would say is a pretty mediocre side.
Finnegan Posted 21 March 2009 Author Posted 21 March 2009 Disappointed but the best team won. What frustrates me with Wales this year is really exasperating decision making. Why did we play our reserves against Italy when we knew we needed to catch up to Ireland's points score? Why did we think it would be a good idea to wind up the English with a bit of media scuffle, we never get involved with that. Why have we stopped introducing Hook in the second half when we're struggling to score tries? Why can we not sustain a performance in both halves? By the time we got to the last two big questions (why did Gavin Henson not take the final kick and, if Jones had to take it, why did he rush it?) it's all an irrelevance. The bottom line is I think we really just believed our own hype far too much. We didn't look like a great try scoring threat and we never really looked like playing our great, expansive rugby with confidence. I will no doubt draw out the Milky Joe's of this world to call me bias but I still believe that, man for man, our best 15 is the strongest in the Northern Hemisphere - but we've really failed to deliver in this tournament and I'd call for a massive change in attitude. We just didn't look like we wanted it against Italy, France and Scotland and by the time we got to Ireland I think the damage was largely done. I don't think we were outplayed today, really, I think Ireland were the better team but besides that purple patch just after half time I think they were very average. I promised Cardiff Fox this would be an open tournament and it has been, truly, it's been exciting and interesting for the neutral. But fans of Wales, France and England will all have been left with as many questions as answers and the Irish fans will have to be slightly delusional if they think they've played some of their best stuff this year. I've always said that if Wales can't win I'd want the Irish too, I think I'll stick to that and once the sting of defeat goes away that'll largely be my stance - but I am annoyed at our indifferent displays.
Finchy Posted 22 March 2009 Posted 22 March 2009 I'm just glad England finished the way they did. Two very strong performances and hopefully it's a sign of things to come, still not sure about Martin Johnson though, we were appauling at the start of the tournament. We have the players to win anything in international Rugby, we just need the right man to lead us, simple as. Not been a very impressive tournament overrall though has it .
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