C-man Posted 18 February 2010 Posted 18 February 2010 Arsene's moaning about their winner. What a moron. It could hardly have been any more deliberate.
Tilley Posted 18 February 2010 Posted 18 February 2010 Arsene really hasn't got a clue when it comes to goalkeepers has he? Nope, both Almunia and Fabianski need to go in the summer, neither good enough for Arsenal.
Tilley Posted 18 February 2010 Posted 18 February 2010 Where on earth did they find the officials for the Bayern game?!?!
Uncle Albert Posted 18 February 2010 Author Posted 18 February 2010 Where on earth did they find the officials for the Bayern game?!?! Isn't he the same **** who cost Chelsea against Barca last season? Norweigan tit.
leicesterfox86 Posted 18 February 2010 Posted 18 February 2010 Alright Arsenal lost but hardly a disaster.Wenger will be disappointed in conceding two absolute howlers but with an away goal I think they'll be pretty confident about going through. Song coming back and replacing that clown Denilson and Arshavin being fit will be huge boosts. Shame they didn't win but could be far worse. Yep, still think they will go through. 2-1 defeat bettet than a 1-0 defeat.
lildave3 Posted 18 February 2010 Posted 18 February 2010 The officiating in the Bayern Fiorentina game was literally some of the worst i've ever seen. How the hell that dick can still ref in the Champions League after the Chelsea farce last season is beyond me, but last night was even worse.
Uncle Albert Posted 18 February 2010 Author Posted 18 February 2010 Yep, still think they will go through. 2-1 defeat bettet than a 1-0 defeat. This man knows his football.
shen Posted 18 February 2010 Posted 18 February 2010 Nope, both Almunia and Fabianski need to go in the summer, neither good enough for Arsenal. It's remarkable though that he has never brought in a decent 'keeper himself during his time at Arsenal, with the possible exception of Lehmann.
The Doctor Posted 19 February 2010 Posted 19 February 2010 The officiating in the Bayern Fiorentina game was literally some of the worst i've ever seen.How the hell that dick can still ref in the Champions League after the Chelsea farce last season is beyond me, but last night was even worse. that ref actually made A. Marriner look compentent. Van Bommel and Klose should have walked, Gobbi's red was V.harsh and that winner
Anish Posted 21 February 2010 Posted 21 February 2010 It's remarkable though that he has never brought in a decent 'keeper himself during his time at Arsenal, with the possible exception of Lehmann. And he too had his calamitous moments. Wenger needs to realise that in order to win trophies nowadays you have to sign top class players and spend big money. Arsenal need a top class keeper, a top midfielder and a quality striker before they'll win anything. Penny pinching and scouting the next 16 year old wizzkid from France/Spain etc isn't going to work. Not that I actually give a crap but it's glaringly obvious where Wenger's going wrong.
shen Posted 21 February 2010 Posted 21 February 2010 And he too had his calamitous moments. Wenger needs to realise that in order to win trophies nowadays you have to sign top class players and spend big money. Arsenal need a top class keeper, a top midfielder and a quality striker before they'll win anything. Penny pinching and scouting the next 16 year old wizzkid from France/Spain etc isn't going to work.Not that I actually give a crap but it's glaringly obvious where Wenger's going wrong. Exactly, but then again most keepers, even the greatest ones are known to get embarrassed every now and then. As for Wenger, it's hard to deny the success he's had with getting the best out of players' potentials. Henry, Vieira, Fabregas, RVP, Ashley Cole, Overmars, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Pires, Wiltord, Toure etc. It seems like he doesn't have the funds to get the very best players, so instead the club have developed a great youth setup that obviously competes with the very best in the world. That's been the way Wenger has operated ever since he came there, sprinkled with the odd big-fee signing here and there. It probably makes financial sense as well, so why change that approach?
Anish Posted 22 February 2010 Posted 22 February 2010 Exactly, but then again most keepers, even the greatest ones are known to get embarrassed every now and then. As for Wenger, it's hard to deny the success he's had with getting the best out of players' potentials. Henry, Vieira, Fabregas, RVP, Ashley Cole, Overmars, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Pires, Wiltord, Toure etc. It seems like he doesn't have the funds to get the very best players, so instead the club have developed a great youth setup that obviously competes with the very best in the world. That's been the way Wenger has operated ever since he came there, sprinkled with the odd big-fee signing here and there. It probably makes financial sense as well, so why change that approach? Because they've won nothing since 2005. Yes Wenger's approach is the best way financially, and he's done an incredible job over the years in bringing in relatively cheap and in many instances unknown players and turning them into top class footballers, but that will only get you so far. Apart from Fabregas and Van Persie, Arsenal just don't have the calibre of players that are required to win trophies. Even their most experienced players like Gallas, Almunia and Silvestre are past their best. Furthermore, none of the current crop of Arsenal players who have come through the ranks (Song, Denilson, Vela, Ramsey etc) are at the level that will perform on the big stage. Arsenal need to change their approach because they've won nothing for years and there will come a point (probably this summer) where Fabregas will walk away to win trophies. Then they have to re-think everything.
Mikey Posted 22 February 2010 Posted 22 February 2010 Because they've won nothing since 2005. Yes Wenger's approach is the best way financially, and he's done an incredible job over the years in bringing in relatively cheap and in many instances unknown players and turning them into top class footballers, but that will only get you so far. Apart from Fabregas and Van Persie, Arsenal just don't have the calibre of players that are required to win trophies. Even their most experienced players like Gallas, Almunia and Silvestre are past their best. Furthermore, none of the current crop of Arsenal players who have come through the ranks (Song, Denilson, Vela, Ramsey etc) are at the level that will perform on the big stage. Arsenal need to change their approach because they've won nothing for years and there will come a point (probably this summer) where Fabregas will walk away to win trophies. Then they have to re-think everything. And Arshavin.
shen Posted 22 February 2010 Posted 22 February 2010 Because they've won nothing since 2005. Yes Wenger's approach is the best way financially, and he's done an incredible job over the years in bringing in relatively cheap and in many instances unknown players and turning them into top class footballers, but that will only get you so far. Apart from Fabregas and Van Persie, Arsenal just don't have the calibre of players that are required to win trophies. Even their most experienced players like Gallas, Almunia and Silvestre are past their best. Furthermore, none of the current crop of Arsenal players who have come through the ranks (Song, Denilson, Vela, Ramsey etc) are at the level that will perform on the big stage. Arsenal need to change their approach because they've won nothing for years and there will come a point (probably this summer) where Fabregas will walk away to win trophies. Then they have to re-think everything. Liverpool and Chelsea had pretty barren spells in the past twenty years and the former's outlooks are bleaker than Arsenal's if you ask me. But despite not having won anything since 2005, Arsenal have been there or there-abouts in the business end of seasons. A quarterfinal, semi and runner-up place in the Champions League, an FA Cup semi and two semis and runner-up place in the League Cup while consistently being in the top 4. There isn't a lot missing for them to win trophies again obviously, and I'm not convinced the the lack of trophies justifies a wholesale change in approach.
Anish Posted 22 February 2010 Posted 22 February 2010 Liverpool and Chelsea had pretty barren spells in the past twenty years and the former's outlooks are bleaker than Arsenal's if you ask me. But despite not having won anything since 2005, Arsenal have been there or there-abouts in the business end of seasons. A quarterfinal, semi and runner-up place in the Champions League, an FA Cup semi and two semis and runner-up place in the League Cup while consistently being in the top 4. There isn't a lot missing for them to win trophies again obviously, and I'm not convinced the the lack of trophies justifies a wholesale change in approach. Fair enough. But the history books don't look favourably on semis/quarters/runners-up - you have to win trophies, especially for a club the size of Arsenal. That should be (and probably is) their goal at the start of every season, yet they've failed to achieve anything noteworthy for 5 years. Comparing them to Liverpool isn't the point - Arsenal need to look at themselves to see where they're going wrong, not the failings of others to comfort them into a false sense of security.
Uncle Albert Posted 22 February 2010 Author Posted 22 February 2010 Liverpool and Chelsea had pretty barren spells in the past twenty years and the former's outlooks are bleaker than Arsenal's if you ask me. But despite not having won anything since 2005, Arsenal have been there or there-abouts in the business end of seasons. A quarterfinal, semi and runner-up place in the Champions League, an FA Cup semi and two semis and runner-up place in the League Cup while consistently being in the top 4. There isn't a lot missing for them to win trophies again obviously, and I'm not convinced the the lack of trophies justifies a wholesale change in approach. Liverpool have had a barren spell in the League title not winning competitions, so god knows where you have got that from. Arsenal havent won anything now in 5 years and a manager even with the reputation that Wenger has earned himself, surely he knows that this period of time without a trophy is bad, how many more times can Wenger say 'we're producing for the future' because with the money thats floating around now it doesnt matter about producing youngsters its about buying the best players.
Jimothy Posted 22 February 2010 Posted 22 February 2010 Liverpool have had a barren spell in the League title not winning competitions, so god knows where you have got that from. Arsenal havent won anything now in 5 years and a manager even with the reputation that Wenger has earned himself, surely he knows that this period of time without a trophy is bad, how many more times can Wenger say 'we're producing for the future' because with the money thats floating around now it doesnt matter about producing youngsters its about buying the best players. Liverpool have been trophyless since 2006, so are only a year behind Arsenal in terms of winning nothing. They probably won't win the Europa League, so it's more than likely gonna be 5 years after this season. Arsenal are still in with a shout in both the League and CL. So yes Liverpool are pretty much in a simular situation to Arsenal in terms of trophy winning (or not). I don't know where you get this idea that they've done ok winning competions recently, they haven't.
Finnegan Posted 22 February 2010 Posted 22 February 2010 Liverpool have had a barren spell in the League title not winning competitions, so god knows where you have got that from. Arsenal havent won anything now in 5 years and a manager even with the reputation that Wenger has earned himself, surely he knows that this period of time without a trophy is bad, how many more times can Wenger say 'we're producing for the future' because with the money thats floating around now it doesnt matter about producing youngsters its about buying the best players. Isn't it widely believed that Arsenal, as a result of their new stadium, really don't actually have a vast amount to spend?
shen Posted 23 February 2010 Posted 23 February 2010 Fair enough. But the history books don't look favourably on semis/quarters/runners-up - you have to win trophies, especially for a club the size of Arsenal. That should be (and probably is) their goal at the start of every season, yet they've failed to achieve anything noteworthy for 5 years. Comparing them to Liverpool isn't the point - Arsenal need to look at themselves to see where they're going wrong, not the failings of others to comfort them into a false sense of security. Many finalists are remembered, but of course you have a point, and I'm not saying that Arsenal aren't underperforming in terms of getting trophies. The competition is stiffer now than before, with Liverpool, Chelsea and maybe Man City catching up or having caught up with Man Utd and Arsenal, be that through financial help or otherwise. And as Finnegan points out below, Isn't it widely believed that Arsenal, as a result of their new stadium, really don't actually have a vast amount to spend? it looks like Arsenal's spending power is nowhere near those of Chelsea, Man City or even Man Utd. My aim was not to excuse Arsenal, it was merely to put their situation into perspective. Liverpool have had a barren spell in the League title not winning competitions, so god knows where you have got that from. Arsenal havent won anything now in 5 years and a manager even with the reputation that Wenger has earned himself, surely he knows that this period of time without a trophy is bad, how many more times can Wenger say 'we're producing for the future' because with the money thats floating around now it doesnt matter about producing youngsters its about buying the best players. As Facecloth pointed out, Liverpool have not had much success recently either having been without a major trophy since 2006. And Liverpool won absolutely jack all between 1995 and 2001. Besides, Liverpool's failure to win a single league title in what will be 20 years this season, is a far bigger blemish than Arsenal's current trophy woes...
Uncle Albert Posted 23 February 2010 Author Posted 23 February 2010 Yeah Liverpool went 6 years from 95 to 2001 and have now gone 4 years with out a trophy but let's compare trophy cabinets between the two, I think we can all agree Liverpool's is bigger. Arsenal and Liverpool I think personally will both be trophyless for a few more seasons yet, well major trophys anyway. Maybe until both change managers.
shen Posted 23 February 2010 Posted 23 February 2010 Yeah Liverpool went 6 years from 95 to 2001 and have now gone 4 years with out a trophy but let's compare trophy cabinets between the two, I think we can all agree Liverpool's is bigger. Arsenal and Liverpool I think personally will both be trophyless for a few more seasons yet, well major trophys anyway. Maybe until both change managers. You mean players, surely. It is plainly obvious that some of their players just aren't good enough, pointing the finger at two managers that have some of the best track records is a tad naïve. Besides, it might well be that Liverpool's overall trophy haul is better than Arsenal's, I never said it wasn't. But everyone knows which record is hurting who the most...
lildave3 Posted 23 February 2010 Posted 23 February 2010 You mean players, surely. It is plainly obvious that some of their players just aren't good enough, pointing the finger at two managers that have some of the best track records is a tad naïve. Besides, it might well be that Liverpool's overall trophy haul is better than Arsenal's, I never said it wasn't. But everyone knows which record is hurting who the most... Who bought those players...
shen Posted 23 February 2010 Posted 23 February 2010 Who bought those players... Once again, without the money they won't get the cream of the crop.
lildave3 Posted 23 February 2010 Posted 23 February 2010 Once again, without the money they won't get the cream of the crop. You certainly can't include Liverpool in that, they've had money and Rafa's wasted it! When you're spending nearly £20m on Robbie Keane you know there is something wrong. He's had no end of flops. And even Wenger spent about 30 million last year.
shen Posted 23 February 2010 Posted 23 February 2010 You certainly can't include Liverpool in that, they've had money and Rafa's wasted it! When you're spending nearly £20m on Robbie Keane you know there is something wrong.He's had no end of flops. And even Wenger spent about 30 million last year. Benitez's transfer record is mixed, I completely agree. But then, most managers have had awful flops. Berbatov, Hargreaves and Nani are some of SAFs current flops. Not to mention his catastrophic capture of Veron. And for every Voronin, Aurelio or Lucas you have a Taibi, Bellion or Kleberson. But Liverpool themselves will admit that they can't attract the necessary talent to threaten Chelsea and Man Utd consistently. Wenger might have spent 30 million, but he also lost two of his most important players for over 35 million, actually spending less than he got in! And let's face it, nor Arsenal or Liverpool can attract the very top players (Torres being the exception). So they have to settle for the next bext and hope they somewhat overperform.
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