Problems finding IT work?

[Thracian]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090309/tuk-u...rs-6323e80.html

And nowhere better illustrated than Hinckley so I'm told.

Good on you Gordon. Keep fantasising about those "British jobs for British workers" you mentioned.

And to those who thought me alarmist in saying there would be 3million unemployed shortly ...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090309/tuk-m...nt-6323e80.html

[Daggers]

I wonder if Yahoo news employs foreign contractors or is located in Bangalore? I wonder if they receive click- through revenue?

[Dr The Singh]

This is nothing new, off shoring has been happening for years!!

There is also a mass skill shortage of highly qualified IT techs in the UK, this is mainly due to reluctance fo UK employers to train there employees and the ease of which they can get someone from India to do the same job at half the price!!!

[Fox92]

No jobs where I live either.

Need one as well as I am at college three days a week.

[gazzer]

The company I work for actively pursues non-EU workers because they will accept substantially lower salaries. Apart from occasional communication issues generally this works fine.

People have to make up their minds.

One minute we're all worried about 'brain drains' and need to get highly skilled immigrants to improve the Country's global competitiveness. The next apparently we had all these highly skilled people all along and now they can't get jobs. Doesn't add up.

[Daggers]

The company I work for actively pursues non-EU workers because they will accept substantially lower salaries. Apart from occasional communication issues generally this works fine.

People have to make up their minds.

One minute we're all worried about 'brain drains' and need to get highly skilled immigrants to improve the Country's global competitiveness. The next apparently we had all these highly skilled people all along and now they can't get jobs. Doesn't add up.

Wanted

Highly skilled immigrant who can make things add up.

Vacancy due to limitations of local staff

[Finnegan]

I wonder if Yahoo news employs foreign contractors or is located in Bangalore? I wonder if they receive click- through revenue?

No idea but apparently they give Thracian commission.

[MPH]

The company I work for actively pursues non-EU workers because they will accept substantially lower salaries. Apart from occasional communication issues generally this works fine.

People have to make up their minds.

One minute we're all worried about 'brain drains' and need to get highly skilled immigrants to improve the Country's global competitiveness. The next apparently we had all these highly skilled people all along and now they can't get jobs. Doesn't add up.

Translation issues

[cisono]

I wonder if Yahoo news employs foreign contractors or is located in Bangalore? I wonder if they receive click- through revenue?

Haha... exactly what I was thinking!!!

[act smiley]

This is nothing new, off shoring has been happening for years!!

There is also a mass skill shortage of highly qualified IT techs in the UK, this is mainly due to reluctance fo UK employers to train there employees and the ease of which they can get someone from India to do the same job at half the price!!!

There are actually loads of people in the UK with plenty of qualifications in IT - the problem is that all the job descriptions are ridiculously specific. Essentially, they want experience in such a variety of different things at the same time that its very rare for anyone to tick all the boxes. I mean, I've seen ads that say '2 years experience in C++, C# and Java' - now they're all broadly similar object-oriented languages and while expertise does take time, someone who is good at one should be able to adapt to the other. But they want them all, and to the level of someone who'd been doing just the one for two years. Then you've got all the other related skills (eg, SQL, various APIs, UML, XML etc. etc.), then the specialised stuff that they want on top of that - its just not physically possible for 99% of people who are perfectly decent at the key parts of what they actually need.

Also that woman can fook off to be honest with the 'answering phones' thing - First line support for anything remotely complex is an absolute thankless bitch of a job. You get everyone calling you up wanting to know anything from simple step-by-step guides for someone who hasn't touched a computer to experts who want to know the precise reason this that and the other (often product faults you've informed managers, developers or whoever about before, but obviously can't mention), and they all want to know now now now, you have loads to do at the same time (and get looked at and moved on within timeframes that don't take having so much to do at once into account) and doing first line you take the brunt of the effing and blinding. Its absolutely mad and deserves far more respect - Obviously if you talk to someone on a phone who's running off a script its a bit of a different matter, but you don't slag off people who keep things running simply because there are related jobs that aren't so complex. I mean, its like lumping a Formula 1 pit crew in with KwikFit because its all changing tyres isn't it? (not mocking tyre places mind.) - its ridiculous.

(For the record, I do second line support... and its simply a different type of shafting.)

aaaand rant over.

[Dr The Singh]

There are actually loads of people in the UK with plenty of qualifications in IT - the problem is that all the job descriptions are ridiculously specific. Essentially, they want experience in such a variety of different things at the same time that its very rare for anyone to tick all the boxes. I mean, I've seen ads that say '2 years experience in C++, C# and Java' - now they're all broadly similar object-oriented languages and while expertise does take time, someone who is good at one should be able to adapt to the other. But they want them all, and to the level of someone who'd been doing just the one for two years. Then you've got all the other related skills (eg, SQL, various APIs, UML, XML etc. etc.), then the specialised stuff that they want on top of that - its just not physically possible for 99% of people who are perfectly decent at the key parts of what they actually need.

Also that woman can fook off to be honest with the 'answering phones' thing - First line support for anything remotely complex is an absolute thankless bitch of a job. You get everyone calling you up wanting to know anything from simple step-by-step guides for someone who hasn't touched a computer to experts who want to know the precise reason this that and the other (often product faults you've informed managers, developers or whoever about before, but obviously can't mention), and they all want to know now now now, you have loads to do at the same time (and get looked at and moved on within timeframes that don't take having so much to do at once into account) and doing first line you take the brunt of the effing and blinding. Its absolutely mad and deserves far more respect - Obviously if you talk to someone on a phone who's running off a script its a bit of a different matter, but you don't slag off people who keep things running simply because there are related jobs that aren't so complex. I mean, its like lumping a Formula 1 pit crew in with KwikFit because its all changing tyres isn't it? (not mocking tyre places mind.) - its ridiculous.

(For the record, I do second line support... and its simply a different type of shafting.)

aaaand rant over.

In today's environment having one or two skills set is not enough, your inevitably competing with people who are dedicated and competative enough to certify themselves in all skill sets of programming, that's just the nature of the beast!! In the higher end of the scale, design, infrastructure, db, PM skills are also required, and for a programmer to be certified and qualified in those fields, your talking a cost of 50k plus, which I would say most employers are reluctant to provide in a short space of time anyway. Hence it's far more cheaper short term to recruit someone with all those skills, and even cheaper to get those skills from abroad, and hence this is where the problem lies, wih spiralling cost of training and recession etc there aren't gonna be many employers willing to bruden such costs!!!

I've worked with guys from India, and in my experience those guys are far more dedicated, they have paid out of there own money and time to get acredited and certified in the latest fields and have worked very hard to gain the experience and skills. In an open UK market, i'm afraid this is the type of competition you are facing!!!!

In my experience, helpdesks rarely are efficient, and first line is always call logging to meet SLA's!! Unfortunatley most graduates and self certified's don't have the neccessary skills to do anything else!! Helpdesks are designed to be a cheap, stepping stone, with a high turn over of staff!! It all comes down to cost!!!

[gazzer]

I've worked with guys from India, and in my experience those guys are far more dedicated, they have paid out of there own money and time to get acredited and certified in the latest fields and have worked very hard to gain the experience and skills. In an open UK market, i'm afraid this is the type of competition you are facing!!!!

My experience working back in the UK for two and a half years, admittedly only for a single company, is that the IT workers here provide little value for money compared to those in Asia. Its probably a cultural thing with the overinflated salaries, large annual leave entitlements and approach to sick leave, as well as the emphasis here on 'life/work balance' rather than career dedication. Not saying these are bad things but I think a lot of the employer's money is wasted. Employers get an eye-opening the first time they employ foreign workers.

Certifications are not that expensive if you download the braindumps and just sit the exam without paying for any training.

[Dr The Singh]

Very true, for your typical MCSE\CCNA, but for higer level Infrastructure\Security or Design qualifications, they insist on testing via labs and written examinations, your not gonna pass by dumping or even test labs!!! Plus for those types of jobs, you need the experience and skill to justify your salary!! paper MSCE's don't generally last long in skilled base work!!

Because of so many paper MSCE's\CCNA's the qualification has been de-valued, infact our organisation will only take them if they have completed the accredted course with it, and they will be tested by our own examination!!

It's tough times, being qualified isn't enough either, and being experienced isn't enough either!! The IT sector has had it's boom, it's been over subscribed at low level and not invested at high level!!!